These few things I know.

Thread starter #1
The Bible is God's word and is the embodiment of His truth. The depths of it is beyond my comprehension and as such are speculative. I have a hard enough time living in the shallows, and by that I mean applying his simple truths to my life. Maybe I'm an outlier, but I wake every day seeking to do one thing: live in the center of his will and every day I fail miserably. That said, these are the basic simple truths I understand.

God loves me unconditionally and always has: so much so that he Himself suffered and died for me.

I am to love and forgive unconditionally.

Whatever happens God is in complete control and it's exactly the way he wants it to be. (That's a toughie to apply.)

That's pretty much it. Very simple to understand. Impossible for me to apply on a continual basis.
 
Amen, with a 'lil side note if you'd entertain it ...

Get to know that part of you which is at rest, you'd be surprised how your liberty could be met with holy laughter and the grace to help against the flesh. And no, there's no suggestion to present yourself as a giddy fool, but present yourself to the Lord as one alive from the dead, consecrated for relational works that you'll discover with joy in the Spirit. It just may take the "try hard - fail - rededicate self effort" mantra and replace it with blood bought peace - that passes all earthly understanding.

And that is my wish for you and everyone who has believed it IS finished.
 
Thread starter #3
Amen, with a 'lil side note if you'd entertain it ...

Get to know that part of you which is at rest, you'd be surprised how your liberty could be met with holy laughter and the grace to help against the flesh. And no, there's no suggestion to present yourself as a giddy fool, but present yourself to the Lord as one alive from the dead, consecrated for relational works that you'll discover with joy in the Spirit. It just may take the "try hard - fail - rededicate self effort" mantra and replace it with blood bought peace - that passes all earthly understanding.

And that is my wish for you and everyone who has believed it IS finished.
Love it. Just gotta live it.
 

Ray357

Senior Member
The Bible is God's word and is the embodiment of His truth. The depths of it is beyond my comprehension and as such are speculative. I have a hard enough time living in the shallows, and by that I mean applying his simple truths to my life. Maybe I'm an outlier, but I wake every day seeking to do one thing: live in the center of his will and every day I fail miserably. That said, these are the basic simple truths I understand.

God loves me unconditionally and always has: so much so that he Himself suffered and died for me.

I am to love and forgive unconditionally.

Whatever happens God is in complete control and it's exactly the way he wants it to be. (That's a toughie to apply.)

That's pretty much it. Very simple to understand. Impossible for me to apply on a continual basis.
God is in complete control but does not control everything.
 

Israel

Senior Member
What is not under His control?
This could get interesting.
But I'll bow out of my musings, LOL, to stay from anyone's torn robes and dust tossed into the air.
;)
 

gordon 2

Senior Member
What is not under His control?

"And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose."

and


"So, because you are lukewarm--neither hot nor cold--I am about to spit you out of my mouth."

---------------


++++++++++++++Seems the power and authority of God is pretty much cut and dry as to point to total control.

Nevertheless is God in control such as to make some person or a people to be lukewarm?

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"Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing.

------------------

++++++++++++ Seems that some have the power to thwart God's purpose. Though we can say He has control over the response, hot, cold or lukewarm, nevertheless some are not willing and willing to respond according to his purpose.

Therefore man can chose to control his own response to God's purpose -- a response that is NOT controlled by God, yet God remains in control due to His remedy regardless of what the response might be.


Ephesians 1:11, NLT: "Furthermore, because we are united with Christ, we have received an inheritance from God, for he chose us in advance, and he makes everything work out according to his plan."

Did he chose us in advance, that due his promise that people like us would receive an inheritance and we receive such--- OR did he chose the very people and the individual who would receive the promised inheritance?

He chose to free the Hebrews out of Egypt, yet did they all receive according to His will and purpose? He willed freedom. And those who did not receive for they did not keep it or that they returned to slavery was it according to His purpose for them who received not? Or those who returned or sold their inheritance and so to not receive according to his purpose?

Are we controlled to believe and not to believe within a will that so loved the world....?
 
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gordon 2

Senior Member
Now, Now! ad hominemism guys! This is not typical situation for you or is it?

Ray so you never have to ask your question again which I would say is a good question, if you are going to ask if fundamentalists if they are Calvinists, you might as well ask if a zebra has stripes.

The question is a good question because: 1. It can indicated if the question-statement has origin in fellowship with a genuine eye to faith and to bible study. 2. It can indicate if the question-statement has its origin in doctrinal stance and that of a coat dyed in the wool.

Christ seems to unite all our dirty linen, however. Praise the Lord.
 
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Ray357

Senior Member
:giggle: Typical situationist ... doesn't know what his truth is until he has determined his situation. :huh:facepalm:
I know the Truth. Simply looking at which way it needs to be presented to avoid long needless exchanges that could be easily bypassed by determining at what point out disagreement starts.
Simple question: You a Calvinist or Non Calvinist? Which of the 5 Doctrines of Grace you adhere to? Which ones you reject?
If you reject just one point of the Doctrines, then I just answered your question for you with your choice. Discussion will be done. If you are a 5 point Calvinist, then we "circle back" to another statement in your O.P. which will have then been knocked off the rails.
 

gemcgrew

Senior Member
I know the Truth. Simply looking at which way it needs to be presented to avoid long needless exchanges that could be easily bypassed by determining at what point out disagreement starts.
Simple question: You a Calvinist or Non Calvinist? Which of the 5 Doctrines of Grace you adhere to? Which ones you reject?
If you reject just one point of the Doctrines, then I just answered your question for you with your choice. Discussion will be done. If you are a 5 point Calvinist, then we "circle back" to another statement in your O.P. which will have then been knocked off the rails.
I take it then that you were not making a declarative statement in post #5, but rather pointing out the inconsistency in the O.P.

Probably the same inconsistency that I addressed with post #4.
 
Now, Now! ad hominemism guys! This is not typical situation for you or is it?
You are right, of course; I responded the the pejorative "Calvinist"* with the pejorative "Situationist".

*See my many posts over the years explaining the initiation of the 5-points, and the corollary term Calvinist, by the Remonstrates (1610 A.D. I think)

Ray so you never have to ask your question again which I would say is a good question, if you are going to ask if fundamentalists if they are Calvinists, you might as well ask if a zebra has stripes.
:waggingfinger:

Labeling always azz-u-me s. Without individual doctrinal assent or rejection (with reasoning) understanding is not possible. But hey, who wants to go to all that trouble; ad hominem is so much easier.
 

Ray357

Senior Member
You are right, of course; I responded the the pejorative "Calvinist"* with the pejorative "Situationist".

*See my many posts over the years explaining the initiation of the 5-points, and the corollary term Calvinist, by the Remonstrates (1610 A.D. I think)


:waggingfinger:

Labeling always azz-u-me s. Without individual doctrinal assent or rejection (with reasoning) understanding is not possible. But hey, who wants to go to all that trouble; ad hominem is so much easier.
If you are not a 5 pointer, you are not a Calvinist. 4 pointers or three pointers, which most Fundamental Baptists are, are not Calvinists.
 

Ray357

Senior Member
I take it then that you were not making a declarative statement in post #5, but rather pointing out the inconsistency in the O.P.

Probably the same inconsistency that I addressed with post #4.
Pretty much. Though myself being a Reformation Arminian (aka Classical Arminian) do not believe The Sovereign God chooses to control everything. His choice to give man freedom to choose does not diminish His Sovereignty.
 
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God is in complete control but does not control everything.
I don't really even know how to explain this but if I had to I'd say maybe God changes his plans according to ours? If man had not followed plan A and crucified His son then God would go to plan B?

At the same time though is he controlling my daily bodily functions? Does he steer hurricane? The ice storm in Texas?

I have also noticed that people are quick to give God credit for the good things like when we overcome the trials he gives us but not the trials themselves. Like Job and his trials. I don't see it as a test. If not a test then why did God give him those trials?

I'm still a bit lost by the meaning of your response about God's total control. If God saw before time that I was going to choose my red shirt over my blue shirt today, could I do differently that what God has already seen? I mean even if God is not in total control, he has already seen my free will choices so it really doesn't matter one way or the other.
 
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