This is sure to spark a dialogue.

[SemperFiDawg]

I have no problem with taking action once an attempt has been made to harm or kill, one person or an entire race.
As far as the situation in Palestine and Israel goes. Palestine threw the first punch, it is their own problem if they cannot back it up for the rest of the fight. Israel will decide when it ends, if it ends.

In your opinion is Israel justified in wiping the residents of Gaza off the face of the earth?

 

[bullethead]

In your opinion is Israel justified in wiping the residents of Gaza off the face of the earth?

I have no problem with that. I know what I would do if someone attacked my Country, State, County, Town, Family.
If the attackers excuse was "well your grandpap or gr gr gr gr gr gr gr grandpap did this so now I am doing that..." well, I'd hear em out but those would be their last words.

 

[Spotlite]

In your opinion is Israel justified in wiping the residents of Gaza off the face of the earth?

Yes - to protect the Israelis from Hamas. We Americans will control other countries and if need be wipe out to protect our interests.

 

[oldfella1962]

Yes - to protect the Israelis from Hamas. We Americans will control other countries and if need be wipe out to protect our interests.

Speaking of American interests about twenty American were killed in this attack, and could be among those taken hostage by Hamas.

Sidenote yesterday the news said that talks were underway to grant a "safe passage" corridor to get civilians out of Gaza before the hammer falls on them. Is that even feasible and safe? How would they even vet the civilians evacuating? There are countless questions to answer before even planning it.

 

[ambush80]

I know the history but I don't care about it as an excuse to justify what happens there for the same reasons that I dont care about Eastern Europeans killing the Native Americans to take their land, who killed each other to take the tribe's land before them and all the way back to them crossing the land bridge from Russia. All the same atrocities were committed all the way back.

Right now Israel is the landlord and they are making the house rules.

Edited to add:
Saying that "I don't care" isn't the correct term more than I accept that this is how it is due to events that happened before I was alive and there wouldn't have been anything that I could do about it anyway as I most likely due to culture would have been part of the "Us vs Them" gang anyway.

Well, then it's "Might makes right". A rag tag handful of poorly armed rebels use unconventional tactics to inflict damage upon their military superior. It's a reoccurring theme..

 

[Spotlite]

Speaking of American interests about twenty American were killed in this attack, and could be among those taken hostage by Hamas.

Sidenote yesterday the news said that talks were underway to grant a "safe passage" corridor to get civilians out of Gaza before the hammer falls on them. Is that even feasible and safe? How would they even vet the civilians evacuating? There are countless questions to answer before even planning it.

View attachment 1261079

Definitely going to be nasty and unfortunately, there’ll be “casualties of war”

Hopefully they’ll get a safe passage and the innocent clear before the hammer falls.

 

[oldfella1962]

Well, then it's "Might makes right". A rag tag handful of poorly armed rebels use unconventional tactics to inflict damage upon their military superior. It's a reoccurring theme..

You are correct! The Old Testament is a great example of the inspirational "rag tag group of misfits" trope * that was probably around since humans walked the Earth.

* The Torah/Tanakh/Old Testament uses this trope to great effect as an "origin story" for Judaism. I've mentioned this before, but many modern & educated Jews are well aware - thanks mostly to modern archeology and gene mapping and historians etcetera - that Moses and even Abraham very likely did not even exist! The Exodus from Egypt never occurred in an epic manner as described either. But it's part of the Jewish identity/culture/tradition so whether or not the stories are "factually true" or just revealing the truths about the human condition in general, that ship has sailed a long time ago.

For some of those with a religious viewpoint, the fact that these stories are so inspirational and motivating and effective - and Jews still have a "no holds barred" attitude when it comes to warfare - that these stories have stood the test of time and are living proof that they are historically true.

My opinion is since the Jews are the people that wrote and compiled these stories about their storm god Yahweh kicking backsides and taking names and being the ultimate "us versus them" declaration/demonstration, all these stories do is provide a window into what Jews were all about during that time period. If the Jews utterly crush Hamas - and all the other allies that may be complicit in assisting Hamas - this will have the same effect on future generations of Jews that the embellished stories did on the very first Jews. It will become part of the general mythology of Judaism.

 

[oldfella1962]

Definitely going to be nasty and unfortunately, there’ll be “casualties of war”

Hopefully they’ll get a safe passage and the innocent clear before the hammer falls.

Hopefully as many innocent civilians as possible - on both sides - will survive. The average age of Palestinians is 19. Bottom line there are a lot of children in Palestine, and yesterday the news said that already 150,000 people have fled Gaza.
Assuming optimistically that every civilian gets out alive, it will be a huge and very expensive humanitarian crisis to deal with. Taken further, what if this escalates to the point where all Israeli civilians have to get out of Dodge?

 

[bullethead]

Well, then it's "Might makes right". A rag tag handful of poorly armed rebels use unconventional tactics to inflict damage upon their military superior. It's a reoccurring theme..

History shows that MMR has been the normal more often than not.

 

[bullethead]

Speaking of American interests about twenty American were killed in this attack, and could be among those taken hostage by Hamas.

Sidenote yesterday the news said that talks were underway to grant a "safe passage" corridor to get civilians out of Gaza before the hammer falls on them. Is that even feasible and safe? How would they even vet the civilians evacuating? There are countless questions to answer before even planning it.

View attachment 1261079

There is the Gaza strip and the city of Gaza. If they mean the city, then those civilians can go elsewhere in the strip.

 

[bullethead]

Well, then it's "Might makes right". A rag tag handful of poorly armed rebels use unconventional tactics to inflict damage upon their military superior. It's a reoccurring theme..

I know for a fact that Native Americans lived where I live now, but I ain't ready to hand it over.

 

[Spotlite]

Hopefully as many innocent civilians as possible - on both sides - will survive. The average age of Palestinians is 19. Bottom line there are a lot of children in Palestine, and yesterday the news said that already 150,000 people have fled Gaza.
Assuming optimistically that every civilian gets out alive, it will be a huge and very expensive humanitarian crisis to deal with. Taken further, what if this escalates to the point where all Israeli civilians have to get out of Dodge?

Israel will fire back heavy. It can very easily turn into a big deal for everyone.

 

[bullethead]

Hopefully as many innocent civilians as possible - on both sides - will survive. The average age of Palestinians is 19. Bottom line there are a lot of children in Palestine, and yesterday the news said that already 150,000 people have fled Gaza.
Assuming optimistically that every civilian gets out alive, it will be a huge and very expensive humanitarian crisis to deal with. Taken further, what if this escalates to the point where all Israeli civilians have to get out of Dodge?

The problem with the inhabitants of the Gaza strip is that despite being Muslim and having many other Muslim nations rooting for them, NOBODY wants or will accept their people. Their souther border is Egypt. Egypt won't let them cross the border.
I am not sure of all.of the details as to the exact reason(s) why, but it speaks to me that no other Muslim nation is asking for a small cease fire in order for them to fly into Gaza or arrive by boat and evacuate the people.

 

[ambush80]

I know for a fact that Native Americans lived where I live now, but I ain't ready to hand it over.

I heard some pundit replacing the terms "Colonized" and "Occupied" with the word "Conquered". It's probably a more accurate description of what happens. I think it carries a morally negative connotation. I suppose the term conquered can take the place of "Genocided".

 

[bullethead]

I heard some pundit replacing the terms "Colonized" and "Occupied" with the word "Conquered". It's probably a more accurate description of what happens. I think it carries a morally negative connotation. I suppose the term conquered can take the place of "Genocided".

It's a more romantic way to say it.
I eluded it earlier but human history has shown that war and genocide has gotten humans of all races, nations and creeds to where they are now.
Using the North American Continent for example: before pale face got here tribes wiped out (or tried to) other tribes for centuries. They conquered, looted, pillaged, raped, enslaved and occupied the land of the previous owners going back as far as it will go.
That is a part of human nature.

 

[ambush80]

From the little history I know about the conflict and the area, I seem to recall that there are mosques built on ruins of temples built on top of mosques on top of temples on top of mosques......and so on. Archeology hasn't seemed to answer the question of "Who was there first", not that it matters since the victor will claim the spoils.

What I wonder is, why is there no serious discussion of how foolish the notion of "Holy Ground" is? The modern secular world should put all its energy into defeating this wretched ideology for good.

 

[stringmusic]

What I wonder is, why is there no serious discussion of how foolish the notion of "Holy Ground" is? The modern secular world should put all its energy into defeating this wretched ideology for good.

Then you have the problem of what ideology to replace it with in which the modern secular world has no fulfilling answer.

 

[bullethead]

Then you have the problem of what ideology to replace it with in which the modern secular world has no fulfilling answer.

None needed. Slap an Arby's on top of whatever last mosk or temple was there and make enough room for a drive thru.

 

[bullethead]

From the little history I know about the conflict and the area, I seem to recall that there are mosques built on ruins of temples built on top of mosques on top of temples on top of mosques......and so on. Archeology hasn't seemed to answer the question of "Who was there first", not that it matters since the victor will claim the spoils.

What I wonder is, why is there no serious discussion of how foolish the notion of "Holy Ground" is? The modern secular world should put all its energy into defeating this wretched ideology for good.

This is a thousands years old peeing match over which Invisible buddy is greather than the other and all each does is strengthen the belief and resolve of the their enemy for every body they stack.

Nobody sends an angel with a jawbone to kill 185,000 at a time anymore.

 

[The Original Rooster]

"is it at least understandable why God would command Israel to completely wipe out entire tribes in the OT?"

Yes, religion or not, it's understandable. There's evidence and circumstantial evidence of genocide or attempts of it in different ages of time all around the globe. It's an animalistic part of human nature to wipe out competitors for resources.