This is sure to spark a dialogue.

[stringmusic]

None needed. Slap an Arby's on top of whatever last mosk or temple was there and make enough room for a drive thru.

The only problem with that is you can’t replace an ideology with a building.

 

[bullethead]

The only problem with that is you can’t replace an ideology with a building.

Even I will give an Amen to that.

 

[Waddams]

I'm gonna ignore whether the God beliefs are right or wrong for this post.
-It's wrong to blow up, shoot, kill, maim, oppress, and terrorize people.
-Hamas (and Hezbollah, and others), these and the prior attacks against innocents, with intent to only hurt and maim other people, it's just plain wrong and evil. Going about it with the sinisterness is extra evil.
-Israel: They've made Gaza a prison for 2million people for 17 years. The way the formed their nation and kicked out the prior occupants, and the way that was condoned by the international community, that was wrong too. Allowing those people to be hurt and their descendants to continue to live in the squalor resulting from that is also wrong.

The solution to the problem is not more hate and malice. You don't make peace with friends. You make peace with enemies. Any solution at this point has to stop the violence and killing, but also help the people that are subjected to poverty every day in Gaza and the West Bank. Gaza especially.

For anyone that thinks "well, I support Israel" for biblical reasons I'll just drop this here: Leviticus 24:22 - You shall have one kind of law, as well for the sojourner, as for the home-born: for I am the LORD your God. 22 Ye shall have one manner of law: as for the stranger, so shall it be for the natural; for I am the LORD your God.

The value stated of one law for everyone, regardless of who they are. That's what Israel is supposed to live up to per their own beliefs, so they say anyway. That is not lived out in everyday life for the lands Israel now holds sway over. JMHO - but I think Israel being the closest thing to a western style democracy in the Middle East, it behooves us to support them, but we should still influence them to be better towards the people in Gaza and the West Bank. Politically, we don't and I think we need to improve holding our ally to a better (and their own) standards.

I work with a man who grew up in Gaza, still has family there (he's Christian, not Muslim). The stories he tells, and seeing what he goes through today because he can't contact his family to see how they are - he's destroyed. The guy was in the office a few days ago with an aunt on the phone when an Israeli bomb leveled the building next to her home. All comms are cut, he can't contact his family now. Has no idea if they are okay or not. I hurt for him and with him seeing what he's going through right now. There are 2million people there that just want a better life and to not be caught between Israel and whoever is the latest group to the Israeli's are fighting with, or is starting a fight with the Israeli's.

In 1948 - there was no Hamas. No Hezbollah. No PLO. None of that. Prior to 1948 during the British Mandate rule over the area, there were Jews that bombed things, assassinated people, and generally carried on the same way Hamas and the others now - in the name of restoring Israel. They were wrong then too.

There's no fixing this without justice and equity. And that's only if the two sides can put aside their blind hatred for each other long enough to even think about it. One side or the other has to turn around and figure out how to love the other first, without that, this will go on in perpetuity no matter who controls that land.

 

[ambush80]

Then you have the problem of what ideology to replace it with in which the modern secular world has no fulfilling answer.

I'm working on it. I guarantee that it will have better music.

 

[ambush80]

Yes, religion or not, it's understandable. There's evidence and circumstantial evidence of genocide or attempts of it in different ages of time all around the globe. It's an animalistic part of human nature to wipe out competitors for resources.

Extinction happens at such large scale and doesn't seem like it will end.

 

[stringmusic]

I'm working on it. I guarantee that it will have better music.

I expect no less than a personal signed copy of the book and front row concert tickets!

 

[oldfella1962]

This is a thousands years old peeing match over which Invisible buddy is greather than the other and all each does is strengthen the belief and resolve of the their enemy for every body they stack.

Nobody sends an angel with a jawbone to kill 185,000 at a time anymore.

I had forgotten all about that Bible story. Judges 15:15-17
I get this mental image of a Biblical Bruce Lee movie: Bruce has already knocked everybody from the bad guy gang into a coma, but bad guys keep coming after him and meeting the same fate! So how many of the enemy would Samson have to kill before somebody says "hey! That guy swinging a jawbone is a force to be reckoned with! I wonder if we should throw spears at him from a safe distance? Let's just shuffle over to get a closer look at this guy. Don't trip on the dead bodies of our comrades!" Remember - some people think that every single thing in the Bible is meant to be taken literally.

"Finding a fresh jawbone of a donkey, he grabbed it and struck down a thousand men. Then Samson said, "With a donkey's jawbone I have made donkeys of them. With a donkey's jawbone I have killed a thousand men." When he finished speaking, he threw away the jawbone; and the place was called Ramath Lehi."

Now I wonder how many fake archeologists like the infamous Ron Wyatt
have found a donkey's jawbone in that region and declared it to be Samson's jawbone weapon?

 

[oldfella1962]

Yes, religion or not, it's understandable. There's evidence and circumstantial evidence of genocide or attempts of it in different ages of time all around the globe. It's an animalistic part of human nature to wipe out competitors for resources.

Yes, very animalistic. Too bad a deity - a creator of the universe/angry storm god - couldn't have came down to Earth and taught some animalistic humans - maybe humans in the Near East/Mesopotamian region for example - a better way to behave! If memory serves, that deity committed genocide and encouraged his chosen people to commit genocide on a regular basis. I guess that didn't pan out.

 

[oldfella1962]

The only problem with that is you can’t replace an ideology with a building.

The Arby's building IS an ideology.

 

[brutally honest]

“If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there would be no more ‎violence. If the Jews put ‎down their weapons ‎today, there would be no ‎more Israel'.”

True ^^^

 

[bullethead]

Yeah on Samson.
Maybe the Angel used a toothpick or an M4??
2 Kings 19:35
And that night the angel of the LORD went out and struck down 185,000 in the camp of the Assyrians. And when people arose early in the morning, behold, these were all dead bodies.

 

[oldfella1962]

“If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there would be no more ‎violence. If the Jews put ‎down their weapons ‎today, there would be no ‎more Israel'.”

True ^^^

Isn't that a Netanyahu quote? I know it wasn't Mark Twain. But it's probably a good attitude to have in Israel.

 

[brutally honest]

Isn't that a Netanyahu quote?

He did say it, but he may have been quoting Golda Meir.

 

[The Original Rooster]

I guess that didn't pan out.

You guess wrong. Figure it out.

 

[oldfella1962]

You guess wrong. Figure it out.

The deity of the "chosen people" was NOT incredibly genocidal? I have Bible versus that state that he was indeed genocidal. Justified? Not justified? It's a moot point - genocide for any reason is still genocide. I'm not judging, I'm just saying that it is so sad that a deity that is all powerful can't take care of business in a less genocidal manner. I totally get that humans are genocidal, but I can't see why a perfect deity would have to be.

 

[Artfuldodger]

“If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there would be no more ‎violence. If the Jews put ‎down their weapons ‎today, there would be no ‎more Israel'.”

True ^^^

I'm on the side of Israel but this saying is a bit lame. Mainly because what the other side is fighting for.
If the Yankees put down their weapons , there would be no more ‎violence. If the Confedrates put ‎down their weapons, there would be no ‎more Confederate States of America.”

 

[oldfella1962]

The annihilation thing reminds me of Sherman's march(scorched earth policy) which was bad but his leaders knew what he was gonna do. Us Southerners think it was terrible but perhaps it broke our moral and ended the war quicker.
Fast forward to WWII and the atomic bombs dropped on Japan. It sorta messed with their moral but it did end the war on that front sooner. Kind of like the Scorched Earth Policy.

So as bad as it is, I'm OK with Israel doing it. But only from a non-Christian standpoint.
From a Christian standpoint and to the OP. If God commands Israel to do it, wouldn't God also intervene and help Israel succeed?

According to the Old Testament, God might help Israel and he might not.
When God wanted to reward the Jews, they were victorious in battle. When God wanted to punish the Jews - or teach them a lesson, they lost in battle. Being atheist I have a different interpretation of what was going on when the actual tribes who would become the Jews were in their formative years: if they happened to win a battle, they figured that Yahweh/El must have been on their side. If they lost, then Yahweh/El must be mad at them and is punishing them. In reality, there was no Yahweh/El and the battles might unfold either way, with no predetermined winner or loser.

Flash forward to today, it's no different. Whatever happens, happens. Jews will pray to Yahweh (El got rolled into Yahweh eventually) for an Israeli victory. Hamas will pray to Allah for victory. Both are praying to the same Abrahamic God for Victory. Oops forgot about Christians, most of whom are praying to Jehovah? or whatever some Christians call God for an Israeli victory. As an atheist retired military member, I'm not praying at all, but I am hoping for an Israeli victory because we have trained and fought with the IDF, and we have people (military & contractors & other government types) over there as we speak. The IDF are our allies.

That said, the rumor mill just before I retired from the actual military claimed that those hot Dead Sea Spa kiosk girls at the Augusta shopping mall were actually spies trying to get intel from American military members. It's a long story, but they were not spies.

 

[brutally honest]

I'm on the side of Israel but this saying is a bit lame. Mainly because what the other side is fighting for.

What is the other side fighting for?

 

[oldfella1962]

What is the other side fighting for?

In a nutshell, Palestine wants their own sovereign state/country like Israel has. Hamas is the ruling political party (and Palestine's military - sort of) that attacked Israel.

 

[brutally honest]

In a nutshell, Palestine wants their own sovereign state/country like Israel has.

They have Gaza — and use it as a terror base to attack Israel. They’ve been offered their own state multiple times since 1948 and always refuse it.

I agree they want their own state but not if it means they have Jewish neighbors.