This is sure to spark a dialogue.

[oldfella1962]

They have Gaza — and use it as a terror base to attack Israel. They’ve been offered their own state multiple times since 1948 and always refuse it.

I agree they want their own state but not if it means they have Jewish neighbors.

I'm not agreeing with Palestine - I'm just saying that they are not happy with their current state (no pun intended) of affairs. If they missed or passed up opportunities for various reasons, that could be their biggest problem. The leadership they recently elected is not doing them any favors that's for sure.

I would venture to say that Iran and other aggressively anti-Israel countries don't really care about Palestine and enjoy the fact/benefit that they can use Hamas to fight a continuous proxy war against Israel. Just my opinion of course.

Hey I just came across this educational video! It's two years old, but still very informative.

 

[Artfuldodger]

What is the other side fighting for?

Land, pretty much one of the main things folks fight over.
What if the Native Americans said we want our historical land back. Then perhaps a group of other nations says "we agree it's historically yours. We'll disperse the Europeans living there and give it back to you."
In doing so some European Americans settle as refugees in Texas. I mean even the Native Americans didn't want it, lol.
But later the Native Americans start trading with Mexico and the European Americans won't let them pass through Texas. At that time the Native Americans say "Texas was also historically ours and now we want it back as well.

 

[oldfella1962]

Land, pretty much one of the main things folks fight over.
What if the Native Americans said we want our historical land back. Then perhaps a group of other nations says "we agree it's historically yours. We'll disperse the Europeans living there and give it back to you."
In doing so some European Americans settle as refugees in Texas. I mean even the Native Americans didn't want it, lol.
But later the Native Americans start trading with Mexico and the European Americans won't let them pass through Texas. At that time the Native Americans say "Texas was also historically ours and now we want it back as well.

Did you see the video I posted in post # 61? It gives a pretty good history of the Palestine situation.

 

[Artfuldodger]

Did you see the video I posted in post # 61? It gives a pretty god history of the Palestine situation.

Ye, it was very informative. Regardless of which side one supports, he needs to know the history.
It could be said to know your enemy. Not that it changes who you support but at least you know why the other side feels as strongly as the one you support.
Also in relation to religion and Christianity,one should understand why most Jews don't believe Jesus is the Messiah.

Thomas Jefferson had an interest in learning about Islam. They were big into world trade back then. Plus shortly after the First Barbary War started.

 

[brutally honest]

Land, pretty much one of the main things folks fight over.

But they have land. And when offered more land, they’ve turned it down every single time.

 

[brutally honest]

I'm not agreeing with Palestine - I'm just saying that they are not happy with their current state (no pun intended) of affairs.

I understand. My point is that they will never be happy with Jewish neighbors.

 

[oldfella1962]

Ye, it was very informative. Regardless of which side one supports, he needs to know the history.
It could be said to know your enemy. Not that it changes who you support but at least you know why the other side feels as strongly as the one you support.
Also in relation to religion and Christianity,one should understand why most Jews don't believe Jesus is the Messiah.

Thomas Jefferson had an interest in learning about Islam. They were big into world trade back then. Plus shortly after the First Barbary War started.

Thomas Jefferson was an interesting guy. He had his own custom New Testament where he eliminated all the supernatural stuff (like Jesus miracles & resurrection) and Jesus "words of wisdom" and parables and whatnot.

 

[oldfella1962]

I understand. My point is that they will never be happy with Jewish neighbors.

They may not be happy with any neighbors, and any neighbors may not be happy with them! All these Muslim nations who are showing solidarity & support with Hamas aren't breaking any speed records finding them some real estate within their borders. They might help Hamas fight a proxy war but that's about it. Egypt doesn't want anything to do with fighting Israel - been there done that and it didn't end well for Egypt. They function as a liaison of sorts between Israel and Hamas. And Egypt has been warning Israel for a month or so that Hamas is planning something big, and Israel did nothing with the intel. They downplayed it and look where it got them.

 

[Artfuldodger]

They may not be happy with any neighbors, and any neighbors may not be happy with them! All these Muslim nations who are showing solidarity & support with Hamas aren't breaking any speed records finding them some real estate within their borders. They might help Hamas fight a proxy war but that's about it. Egypt doesn't want anything to do with fighting Israel - been there done that and it didn't end well for Egypt. They function as a liaison of sorts between Israel and Hamas. And Egypt has been warning Israel for a month or so that Hamas is planning something big, and Israel did nothing with the intel. They downplayed it and look where it got them.

Maybe they ignored the intel on purpose. If so, then it did work.

 

[oldfella1962]

Maybe they ignored the intel on purpose. If so, then it did work.

Yes Israel could have ignored the intel on purpose, but I don't want to be the "unhinged conspiracy theory guy" by making any accusations. As we know, some people say Bush ignored any intel about 9/11. I wish I was a fly on the wall for both these situations. It is scary thinking that people are making decisions (or not making decisions) that can get people killed and we have no say in any of it. And all the "don't worry, God is in charge" people do not make sense to me. It truly is a stereotypical atheist question of "which god?" is in charge but not really - followers of all three Abrahamic religions are involved - or have the likelihood to be involved - as this war escalates.
Technically one Abrahamic God/Jehovah/Yahweh/Allah will "be in charge" of handling the prayers of two religions with opposing goals fighting, and if America gets directly involved there will be a third religion involved.
This is a perfect real-world example of how the very logic behind organized large-scale religion in general completely breaks down. The only way religion makes any sense at all (to me) is with animism at the small tribe level among people who have absolutely no other way to figure out how the small world that they see around them on a daily basis works.

 

[bullgator]

If the answer could be found on an American redneck forum….it would have been accomplished long ago by others. Trying to find reasonable and sane solutions involving people who are neither, is why history keeps repeating itself in that region.

 

[660griz]

... understandable why God would command Israel to completely wipe out entire tribes in the OT?

God commanding man to commit mass(or one) killing(s) just seems wrong. Why can't God take care of business? After all, if he would have done a better job 'in the beginning' there would only be one God and millions of lives saved. I do understand why actual men back then would have that sentiment. Probably the same sentiment that is on the other side right now that hasn't quite gotten rid of their 'Old Testament'.

 

[oldfella1962]

If the answer could be found on an American redneck forum….it would have been accomplished long ago by others. Trying to find reasonable and sane solutions involving people who are neither, is why history keeps repeating itself in that region.

I don't remember where I heard this but here is a great quote:
"humans are not a rational species, we are a rationalizing species".

 

[oldfella1962]

God commanding man to commit mass(or one) killing(s) just seems wrong. Why can't God take care of business? After all, if he would have done a better job 'in the beginning' there would only be one God and millions of lives saved. I do understand why actual men back then would have that sentiment. Probably the same sentiment that is on the other side right now that hasn't quite gotten rid of their 'Old Testament'.

But bottom line "the other side" is acting much like the people (and the deity) of the Old Testament did thousands of years ago. And the ultimate irony is all three Abrahamic religions worship the same deity and think that the other two religions are "doing it wrong" from their own perspective.

What if there is an actual deity so far beyond what humans can imagine and create that is laughing at our plethora of man-made religions?
And maybe it hasn't revealed itself to humans because we would inevitably mess up the message and meaning anyway?

 

[oldfella1962]

Speaking of "sparking" these "end times" people are becoming unhinged over this war! Not the average Christian, but the ones who make their living from stirring the Biblical fear pot are all over you tube. I'm sure Jews & Muslims are all doing this to varying degrees also.

 

[Artfuldodger]

Considering that Israel has had so many wars over time, what is it about this one that makes so many think it's the "End Times?"

 

[oldfella1962]

Considering that Israel has had so many wars over time, what is it about this one that makes so many think it's the "End Times?"

Israel hasn't had any military action for a while, so the end time types want to stay relevant? Who knows, but they are loving this chance to strut their stuff.