Trinity is humanity's Father/Son Image!

Thread starter #21
If... when the anti christ comes on the scene, an impostor, posing as Jesus.... why then is it a shocker when he later claims to be God? It would seem that if he were posing as the Christ of today's Christians, that he would not need to claim to be God but rather be assumed to be God? The Christ of today's Christians has already claimed to be God. Hmmmm
Has the Christ of today claimed to be God or have they claimed he is God?

I would agree that when he comes and claims to be Jesus, the ones who believe that would also believe he is God under the Trinitarian or Oneness belief.

Does scripture say he will claim to be Christ at first and then later claim to be God? If so then that would dispute the Trinity and Oneness belief.
 
Thread starter #22
Will the anti-Christ claim to be Christ or God? I have read that he is against Christ and that he will claim to be God but does scripture say he will claim to be Christ? Perhaps the Messiah of Israel?
 

1gr8bldr

Senior Member
Will the anti-Christ claim to be Christ or God? I have read that he is against Christ and that he will claim to be God but does scripture say he will claim to be Christ? Perhaps the Messiah of Israel?
It is my understanding that he is an imposter Christ. The word "Anti" Christ has more to do with the word Christ than people know. Trinitarians by nature are antichrist. They don't believe he is the Christ, they believe he is God. The word Christ means "anointed by God". But they believe he is God rather than anointed by God.
 
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1gr8bldr

Senior Member
It is my understanding that he is an imposter Christ. I will look into it.
As of now, we have two Christs. One that claims to be God and one that does not. Two beliefs, Paul said, "I promised you to one husband, as a pure virgin"
 

1gr8bldr

Senior Member
Will the anti-Christ claim to be Christ or God? I have read that he is against Christ and that he will claim to be God but does scripture say he will claim to be Christ? Perhaps the Messiah of Israel?
The antichrist, I believe this is correct, the bible makes no mention of Jesus during the antichrist's time other than, paraphrase, that the real Jesus eventually comes on the scene after the church, the harlot, has ran off, been deceived, become damaged goods, by the imposter Jesus. She being bethrothed to Jesus, was deceived by the imposter Jesus, and now the real Jesus comes on the scene and throws both her and the antichrist into the lake of fire. Something like that
 

1gr8bldr

Senior Member
Google 3 antichrists. Many actually think that Trump is the third antichrist. LOL. Why, because of the three mentioned in the "anti" group. I used to read this and think it was an evil copy of the trinity, meant to decieve trinitarians. I no longer believe this. I think it is the trinity. Not literal, but The beast came out of the sea at 325 ad, the second beast, trin HS, in the 400's when the HS became a third person.
 

1gr8bldr

Senior Member
The harlot on seven hills..... Google 7 hills. It's Rome. Hmmmm The Roman Cathiloc church is the source of the original trinity
 

1gr8bldr

Senior Member
We know that Matthew originally said "go baptize in my name" but it was later changed to a three part baptismal formula, Father, Son and HS. 666, the mark. We study and go on and on about every biblical topic here at Woodys. Going into extreme great detail and debate..... Why is it then that no one studies or discusses the verses we have regarding the antichrist, the harlot, the mark, etc.?
 

1gr8bldr

Senior Member
The ten horns on his head. LOL. CARM discussion forum has subforums for every religion. It will have Muslim in a forum, Islam, etc. But for the Christian belief, LOL, it used to have 10 forums within the Christian forum. LOL, until I pointed out it was 10 horns. It used to have 10, like baptist, methodist, etc. But after pointing it out, they could not leave it that way, so they have added several more, like home churches. LOL, they dug into non denominations to change that. But count the denominations of the Trinitarians and see what you come up with.
 

1gr8bldr

Senior Member
In summary, the antichrist is thought of as a slick willy, one whom is like a dynamic politician whom is given a voice, whom uses it and is wooed by the world. The world including many Jews, will fall for his charm and he will take power where he will rule, crushing his opposition, and punishing those whom do not accept his claiming to be God. However, the scriptures tell us that the antichrist is already at work.... And that many antichrists have already gone out into the world..... So, is the antichrist a literal person, or is it possibly a belief. What if... Jesus, the real Jesus, never claimed to be God, but a large following decided that he did claim to be God.

LOL, hypothetical, all the Christian denominations gave their power, elected one man as representative, Joel olsteen, to be the antichrist. LOL, just kidding. But you get the point how the ten horns give their authority. I still believe that the antichrist will not be a physical person, but rather a belief of who Jesus is. Possibly a representative of the belief? But the context is that the antichrist [belief] stole Jesus identity. Which was seemingly easy to do as the bride grew weary of waiting his return. Imagine his rage to return to find his betrothed is with another man. [hypothetical]. As Paul said " I promised you to one husband, as a pure bride....."
 

1gr8bldr

Senior Member
Check the greek, the "wound" on the head of the antichrist does not give indication to the greek original. The greek original 100% shows death, that he was raised from the dead.
 

1gr8bldr

Senior Member
And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,

Understand that the mark, or any mark, seal, etc, has to do with what you believe.
 

1gr8bldr

Senior Member
This topic is not discussed often.... however, it would seem that it would be? A good starting point is to either believe it's an evil copy of the trinity...or the trinity. The beast, dragon and second beast, notice how they parallel with the Father, Son and HS. Giving power, the image, the fatal wound, etc. I have no issue with believing it's an evil copy, posing as the true. This is a legitimate belief. However, it needs to be recognized as such
 

Madman

Senior Member
Jesus doesn't claim to be God but the anti-Christ does.
That's interesting, I'll have to think about that one a bit.
The Jewish authorities of the day thought he made the claim. The had him crucified for making the claim.
 
Thread starter #37
The Jewish authorities of the day thought he made the claim. The had him crucified for making the claim.
John 5:18
For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

Jesus was calling God his own Father. In the eyes of the Jews, that meant he was saying he was God. They misunderstood that Jesus was performing the works of God his Father. To Jesus, God was his Father. If God was doing sabbath works, the Son(human) image of God was doing sabbath works.

John 5:19
So Jesus replied, “Truly, truly, I tell you, the Son can do nothing by Himself, unless He sees the Father doing it. For whatever the Father does, the Son also does.

Jesus tried to explain it and set them straight but they couldn't fathom a Son of God that was just a Son and not his Father. To them God was a Oneness so if there was a Son then he'd have to be his Father.

Jesus tries to tell them that God is his Father and he is only the Son. That his work is that of his Father. That he is only the image of God. That he is only here to present his Father's glory. To teach his Father's Kingdom.

To Jesus, his Father was God and is God. Anytime Jesus said or says God, he means "Father." Anytime he said or says Father, he means "God." They are one in the same to Jesus.
Jesus, being the Son is that image.

He may have convinced them of this but Jesus even claiming to be God's Son was enough for them. Even though he said he was doing the works of his Father. He even told them they were sons of God.
Jesus said "just believe the works." Just the works should let you know it's from the Father.

Jesus realized it wasn't blasphemy;

John 10:36
why do you call it blasphemy when I say, 'I am the Son of God'? After all, the Father set me apart and sent me into the world.

Regardless of whether they thought he was God or the Son of God didn't matter to the Jews. They considered even being his Son blasphemy even though Jesus tried to tell them it wasn't.
 
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1gr8bldr

Senior Member
John 5:18
For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

Jesus was calling God his own Father. In the eyes of the Jews, that meant he was saying he was God. They misunderstood that Jesus was calling God his Father. To Jesus, God was his Father.

John 5:19
So Jesus replied, “Truly, truly, I tell you, the Son can do nothing by Himself, unless He sees the Father doing it. For whatever the Father does, the Son also does.

Jesus tried to explain it and set them straight but they couldn't fathom a Son of God that was just a Son and not his Father. To them God was a Oneness so if there was a Son then he'd have to be his Father.

Jesus tries to tell them that God is his Father and he is only the Son. That his work is that of his Father. The he is only the image of God. That he is only here to present his Father's glory. To teach his Father's Kingdom.

To Jesus, his Father was God.

He may have convinced them of this but Jesus even claiming to be God's Son was enough for them. Even though he said he was doing the works of his Father. He even told them they were sons of God.
Jesus said "just believe the works." Just the works should let you know it's from the Father.

Jesus realized it wasn't blasphemy;

John 10:36
why do you call it blasphemy when I say, 'I am the Son of God'? After all, the Father set me apart and sent me into the world.

Regardless of whether they thought he was God or the Son of God didn't matter to the Jews. They considered even being his Son blasphemy even though Jesus tried to tell them it wasn't.
When he said the works I do show that I am from the Father..... this was a referral to Moses. Jesus being a prophet likened to Moses.... was sent. "This is how they will know" Moses was given miraculous powers so that people would know he was sent by God. As one had said, "when the prophet comes, will he do greater works than this", implying that no one would, thus this must be him. In hindsight, we don't grasp the times. They were waiting, faithfully, that God would send his promised messiah, that he would keep his "word". Only, they were not sure because they expected a living leader, not a man cursed on a tree. And... there is the offensiveness of what Jesus had to say that divided them.
 

Madman

Senior Member
5 Let the same mind be in you that was in Christ Jesus,
6 who, though he was in the form of God,
did not regard equality with God
as something to be exploited,
7 but emptied himself,
taking the form of a slave,
being born in human likeness.
And being found in human form,
8 he humbled himself
and became obedient to the point of death—
even death on a cross.
 

1gr8bldr

Senior Member
John 5:18
For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

Jesus was calling God his own Father. In the eyes of the Jews, that meant he was saying he was God. They misunderstood that Jesus was calling God his Father. To Jesus, God was his Father.

John 5:19
So Jesus replied, “Truly, truly, I tell you, the Son can do nothing by Himself, unless He sees the Father doing it. For whatever the Father does, the Son also does.

Jesus tried to explain it and set them straight but they couldn't fathom a Son of God that was just a Son and not his Father. To them God was a Oneness so if there was a Son then he'd have to be his Father.

Jesus tries to tell them that God is his Father and he is only the Son. That his work is that of his Father. The he is only the image of God. That he is only here to present his Father's glory. To teach his Father's Kingdom.

To Jesus, his Father was God.

He may have convinced them of this but Jesus even claiming to be God's Son was enough for them. Even though he said he was doing the works of his Father. He even told them they were sons of God.
Jesus said "just believe the works." Just the works should let you know it's from the Father.

Jesus realized it wasn't blasphemy;

John 10:36
why do you call it blasphemy when I say, 'I am the Son of God'? After all, the Father set me apart and sent me into the world.

Regardless of whether they thought he was God or the Son of God didn't matter to the Jews. They considered even being his Son blasphemy even though Jesus tried to tell them it wasn't.
If I go out and buy a harley, buy leather chaps, get a tatoo, etc.... I maketh myself a biker. If If I do the works that only God can do, it does not mean that I am God, nor that Jesus "maketh himself God, but rather as he explained, that it proves he was sent by God, that the works they see were not his own
 
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