Trust the Science

[Ben1100Mag]

What the State of Georgia (along with a bunch of others) has done is gone all in on one Mans opinion based on unfinished research. Turkey populations like all wild creatures go on a cyclical cycle. I for one do not think or agree that cutting 3 weeks of the season for public land hunters is saving very many Turkeys. If we as Hunters do not show up at the DNR Public meetings and voice our opinions changes will continue to be made without Hunters say in the matter.

 

[buckpasser]

What the State of Georgia (along with a bunch of others) has done is gone all in on one Mans opinion based on unfinished research. Turkey populations like all wild creatures go on a cyclical cycle. I for one do not think or agree that cutting 3 weeks of the season for public land hunters is saving very many Turkeys. If we as Hunters do not show up at the DNR Public meetings and voice our opinions changes will continue to be made without Hunters say in the matter.

I don’t think they will listen much, but I agree 100%. Great post!

 

[Dupree]

Apparently, most of you wouldn't have a place to hunt.

I haven’t killed a turkey on public since 2020. I don’t like getting to spots 3 hours earlier than I need to.

 

[across the river]

@across the river , While I agree that there is no magic wand, I don't think everyone is as dumb as you make them out to be. But the whole "turkey issue" conversation is over now, because you solved it for us. Turkeys are going extinct, so lets just forget about turkeys and hunting in general and not talk about any of the issues that are going on. Its a loosing battle anyway. There's absolutely nothing that could be changed that would have any type of positive impact. No need to grip about things you cant control. Thanks.

What the State of Georgia (along with a bunch of others) has done is gone all in on one Mans opinion based on unfinished research. Turkey populations like all wild creatures go on a cyclical cycle. I for one do not think or agree that cutting 3 weeks of the season for public land hunters is saving very many Turkeys. If we as Hunters do not show up at the DNR Public meetings and voice our opinions changes will continue to be made without Hunters say in the matter.

These two posts summarize the entire issue, and make my point. You have a bunch of people "griping" about the lack of turkeys public land and lack of opportunities. The DNR "changes" the only things that they really have any input and some control over, which is the season dates and limits, and then people complain because they changed the dates and limits . Now, I personally don't think the delay in the start date or limit change is going to have any measurable impact, public or private, but I do understand why the changes were made. The tracts that have had habitat and turkeys the last few years, will for the most part still have turkeys. The 1000 acres of pine needles on which turkeys are in large part no existent on, will still be void of turkeys. I've heard and seen more gobblers in Georgia this year (hatched before the new regulations mind you) than I have in over a decade, so I agree it comes in waves. I will note, however, that the tract that I have by far seen and heard the most birds on this year was partially burned last year, in April. May be coincidence, but that is the truth.

Regardless, nothing exists in a vacuum. If you push the DNR because there aren't turkeys on your local WMA or private land and ask them to "fix it", don't then complain because they limited your season and limit you to two birds. Its like the people that demanded more and more stimulus checks now complaining about inflation.

 

[buckpasser]

These two posts summarize the entire issue, and make my point. You have a bunch of people "griping" about the lack of turkeys public land and lack of opportunities. The DNR "changes" the only things that they really have any input and some control over, which is the season dates and limits, and then people complain because they changed the dates and limits . Now, I personally don't think the delay in the start date or limit change is going to have any measurable impact, public or private, but I do understand why the changes were made. The tracts that have had habitat and turkeys the last few years, will for the most part still have turkeys. The 1000 acres of pine needles on which turkeys are in large part no existent on, will still be void of turkeys. I've heard and seen more gobblers in Georgia this year (hatched before the new regulations mind you) than I have in over a decade, so I agree it comes in waves. I will note, however, that the tract that I have by far seen and heard the most birds on this year was partially burned last year, in April. May be coincidence, but that is the truth.

Regardless, nothing exists in a vacuum. If you push the DNR because there aren't turkeys on your local WMA or private land and ask them to "fix it", don't then complain because they limited your season and limit you to two birds. Its like the people that demanded more and more stimulus checks now complaining about inflation.

Good points there. That’s the reason I fought a bunch of folks on here there were saying “something needs to be done!” That’s a bad move. MAYBE do something if there’s a proven reason to back it up. A reason better than one guys theoretical and mostly self proclaimed genius on the subject. The bag limit changes make common sense and offer more hunter opportunity. The season dates are like deciding wether or not to pee in the ocean to battle rising sea levels.

As for burning, the science as it’s been presented and exposed on this forum is pretty clear. Destroying nests with late fire is a bad idea. I don’t have a problem reading the griping, but that’s just me. I wish the state would burn earlier, and I feel like us complaining could possibly start a movement that might get more responsible woods management done on public lands. Who knows?

 

[Whit90]

Good points there. That’s the reason I fought a bunch of folks on here there were saying “something needs to be done!” That’s a bad move. MAYBE do something if there’s a proven reason to back it up. A reason better than one guys theoretical and mostly self proclaimed genius on the subject. The bag limit changes make common sense and offer more hunter opportunity. The season dates are like deciding wether or not to pee in the ocean to battle rising sea levels.

As for burning, the science as it’s been presented and exposed on this forum is pretty clear. Destroying nests with late fire is a bad idea. I don’t have a problem reading the griping, but that’s just me. I wish the state would burn earlier, and I feel like us complaining could possibly start a movement that might get more responsible woods management done on public lands. Who knows?

No complaints here

 

[across the river]

Good points there. That’s the reason I fought a bunch of folks on here there were saying “something needs to be done!” That’s a bad move. MAYBE do something if there’s a proven reason to back it up. A reason better than one guys theoretical and mostly self proclaimed genius on the subject. The bag limit changes make common sense and offer more hunter opportunity. The season dates are like deciding wether or not to pee in the ocean to battle rising sea levels.

As for burning, the science as it’s been presented and exposed on this forum is pretty clear. Destroying nests with late fire is a bad idea. I don’t have a problem reading the griping, but that’s just me. I wish the state would burn earlier, and I feel like us complaining could possibly start a movement that might get more responsible woods management done on public lands. Who knows?

So what science has been exposed? A redneck's opinion posted on the Georgia forum doesn't classify in my book as reliable info. I get you aren't a fan of the "Turkey Doc", so lets throw him out. There is still plenty of other research that says what I have said multiple times, and that is turkeys don't nest in areas that are typically being burned. You don't lose enough to matter. Now are smaller, most frequent, more deverse burns better? Absolutely, but as I have also said many times, that costs time and money the agencies don't have. They aren't going to do it. However, in the grand scheme of things, burning in April and May and in large chunks is better for turkeys overall than not burning at all. Of all the problems turkeys face, a spring burn on Cedar Creek or B.F. Grant doesn't register anywhere near the top.

Here are some reads about research not involving Chamberlin, and it isn't that different.

https://blogs.illinois.edu/view/7447/1334519483

https://www.agfc.com/en/news/2019/0...-turkey-quail-and-other-ground-nesting-birds/

 

[buckpasser]

So what science has been exposed? A redneck's opinion posted on the Georgia forum doesn't classify in my book as reliable info. I get you aren't a fan of the "Turkey Doc", so lets throw him out. There is still plenty of other research that says what I have said multiple times, and that is turkeys don't nest in areas that are typically being burned. You don't lose enough to matter. Now are smaller, most frequent, more deverse burns better? Absolutely, but as I have also said many times, that costs time and money the agencies don't have. They aren't going to do it. However, in the grand scheme of things, burning in April and May and in large chunks is better for turkeys overall than not burning at all. Of all the problems turkeys face, a spring burn on Cedar Creek or B.F. Grant doesn't register anywhere near the top.

Here are some reads about research not involving Chamberlin, and it isn't that different.

https://blogs.illinois.edu/view/7447/1334519483

https://www.agfc.com/en/news/2019/0...-turkey-quail-and-other-ground-nesting-birds/

Mostly the fact that re-nesters have been the reason to “not worry about late burns”. Turns out they have such low success that we now know all our hopes lie on the first clutch. Knowing that, we that possess common sense realize the late big block burning is very hard on poult production. We didn’t really need studies to tell us that, now did we? Anyway, I won’t go round and round again, but I burn understory with desired results EVERY SINGLE YEAR and burn exactly ZERO nests. Could it be that’s why I’m covered in turkeys? Nah, I’m sure it’s just the luck of the draw…

Also, I notice you buy in to the two and three year fuel rough blocks not holding many turkey nests, and maybe there is a study to back that, but it doesn’t match what I see in the woods with mine own eyes. As you probably already know, GA is very diverse when it comes to what a 1,2,3,5 year rough looks like, even in planted pines, so I wouldn’t keep putting too much stock in that one.

 

[across the river]

Mostly the fact that re-nesters have been the reason to “not worry about late burns”. Turns out they have such low success that we now know all our hopes lie on the first clutch. Knowing that, we that possess common sense realize the late big block burning is very hard on poult production. We didn’t really need studies to tell us that, now did we? Anyway, I won’t go round and round again, but I burn understory with desired results EVERY SINGLE YEAR and burn exactly ZERO nests. Could it be that’s why I’m covered in turkeys? Nah, I’m sure it’s just the luck of the draw…

Also, I notice you buy in to the two and three year fuel rough blocks not holding many turkey nests, and maybe there is a study to back that, but it doesn’t match what I see in the woods with mine own eyes. As you probably already know, GA is very diverse when it comes to what a 1,2,3,5 year rough looks like, even in planted pines, so I wouldn’t keep putting too much stock in that one.

You didn’t actually read anything In those links did you?

 

[Gaswamp]

You didn’t actually read anything In those links did you?

I did

 

[buckpasser]

You didn’t actually read anything In those links did you?

Uh, no. Have you been to IL and AR?

 

[across the river]

Uh, no. Have you been to IL and AR?

Yes. Both of them.