Turkey decline

Resica

Senior Member
I've not busted up flocks well but I have called turkeys in, in the fall. To hear all those birds talking is something else. We can hunt them with dogs in the fall now. Great time to be in the woods!!
 

Nicodemus

The Recluse
Staff member
I've not busted up flocks well but I have called turkeys in, in the fall. To hear all those birds talking is something else. We can hunt them with dogs in the fall now. Great time to be in the woods!!


When we finally did get a spring season, the Elders who were my mentors weren`t really interested in hunting them in the spring. Said it was too easy to kill a mature gobbler then. They were right too. In the spring, they have a reason to come to you. In the fall they don`t and are much more of a challenge to kill.

They were right too.
 

Resica

Senior Member
When we finally did get a spring season, the Elders who were my mentors weren`t really interested in hunting them in the spring. Said it was too easy to kill a mature gobbler then. They were right too. In the spring, they have a reason to come to you. In the fall they don`t and are much more of a challenge to kill.

They were right too.
You are right. For some reason or another our fall was more popular than our spring at one time. I'm guessing that there was a fall long before a spring season but not sure. It has since reversed. For some reason or another I equate fall turkey hunting to fall flintlock up here where a lot of our folks dress in leather. Seems Native Americanish to me!! There are times everyday that I wish I was back there.
 

turkeykirk

Senior Member
The very best hunting of anything, and my personal favorite type of hunting, was hunting turkeys in Georgia when we had a Fall season. I`m glad I`m old enough to have experienced it. Some almighty good memories.

Really love turkey hunting in the Fall. Been going to NY since 1980. Just bought my plane ticket for this Fall.
 

turkeykirk

Senior Member
I think your video is spot on. Used to hunt some places that is covered in concrete and warehouses. Will never have turkeys on those places again. Lots of hardwoods gone too.
 
I think your video is spot on. Used to hunt some places that is covered in concrete and warehouses. Will never have turkeys on those places again. Lots of hardwoods gone too.
I think your video is spot on. Used to hunt some places that is covered in concrete and warehouses. Will never have turkeys on those places again. Lots of hardwoods gone too.
Thanks for watching..and your comments. And I'm with you on hardwood loss...makes me sick.
 
We have great habitat and our quail population is really good, probably at a 25yr high currently. So how does that explain the turkey decline we have?
Hard to say, usually good quail habitat is good for turkeys as well. Since the video I've really wondered about corn feeders. And DNR says it's too many mature birds taken too early...
 

herb mcclure

Senior Member
I am not disagreeing with anyone's theory's about the decline in our turkey's populations from what they one time were in most all of the different habitat places. I will say, not all of the theories would apply to the various habitat that wild turkeys call home today.
I too, was hunting Spring gobblers in the 1950's, when Nick wss hunting Fall turkeys with his grandpa.
The way I see the problem of today, is after civilization had cleared most of the land for crops, towns, and everything else one can think of, the wild turkey only survived in Georgia, within its forest along the state's southern streams and the remotest mountainous areas, which are two very different habitats.

During the 1960's,70's and 80's much of Georgia's reconverted forest was restocked with turkeys, and these new areas really exploded with turkeys, even the once vacant mountain forest regain large turkey numbers.

However, the turkeys today are experiencing a change in their habitat, and no one shoe will fit all of the problems of turkeys across the state, or the southeast. Predators of all types and kinds are unreal. Chemicals in some areas, Over harvising for the carrying capacity for some areas. Carrying capacity is tied to how good the habitat is, how well the predators are controlled, and their food availability on a year around basses.
One thing that I am noticing in the Northeast Georgia counties, turkeys are changing themselves. Today's turkeys are increasing their numbers more-so in populated areas where homes, forest, and green areas all mix together, instead of the older hardwood forest of the mountains. Yes, some of the popular places where there were onetime large numbers, have dwindled, turkeys are increasing their numbers in new areas where they were not considered turkey places not long ago.
 
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Athos

Senior Member
When we finally did get a spring season, the Elders who were my mentors weren`t really interested in hunting them in the spring. Said it was too easy to kill a mature gobbler then. They were right too. In the spring, they have a reason to come to you. In the fall they don`t and are much more of a challenge to kill.

They were right too.

Come on, Nic. I can’t even kill them in Spring...
 

Echo

Gone But Not Forgotten
Not a lot of room for disagreement with anything mentioned in the video. All of those reasons for possible turkey population decline have been mentioned before in one way or another.

I've wondered about the fire ant issue myself quite a bit because as was mentioned, anything edible on the ground does not stay undiscovered for long in fire ant country.

However, to my knowledge no official documentation of fire ants destroying a nest or feeding on newly hatched poults has ever been presented. Seems like someone with the DNR or others doing nest monitoring would have observed it if it was widespread..
 
Not a lot of room for disagreement with anything mentioned in the video. All of those reasons for possible turkey population decline have been mentioned before in one way or another.

I've wondered about the fire ant issue myself quite a bit because as was mentioned, anything edible on the ground does not stay undiscovered for long in fire ant country.

However, to my knowledge no official documentation of fire ants destroying a nest or feeding on newly hatched poults has ever been presented. Seems like someone with the DNR or others doing nest monitoring would have observed it if it was widespread..
Agreed. But you don't hear much about snakes either...until you try to raise chickens or quail.
 

antharper

“Well Rounded Outdoorsman MOD “
Staff member
Thanks for taking time for this , maybe it will help . Even if it’s just a little . I think the #1 problem is predators , nest raiders and birds of prey . No one Coon hunts , the fur market is gone and they are being fed unlimited supplies of corn and protein feed . By almost all deer hunters , me included . May be totally wrong but just my belief. It’s a cardinal sin to kill a bird of prey , and all of our elders shot every one they seen . Even the areas of hardly any habitat change has seen a decline . I’ve been in 2 leases recently that had an excellent quail population and they both were recently cut . Also haven’t we always had fire ants ? And in my area we have no agriculture for chicken manure . Some cattle farms but not a lot . Never ride the roads and smell it like south ga . And as far as over harvesting , I’m not buying that either , we’ve been killing the same amounts for ever. And gobblers don’t lay eggs . My guess is the population will self correct and the biologist will look like geniuses .
 
Thanks for taking time for this , maybe it will help . Even if it’s just a little . I think the #1 problem is predators , nest raiders and birds of prey . No one Coon hunts , the fur market is gone and they are being fed unlimited supplies of corn and protein feed . By almost all deer hunters , me included . May be totally wrong but just my belief. It’s a cardinal sin to kill a bird of prey , and all of our elders shot every one they seen . Even the areas of hardly any habitat change has seen a decline . I’ve been in 2 leases recently that had an excellent quail population and they both were recently cut . Also haven’t we always had fire ants ? And in my area we have no agriculture for chicken manure . Some cattle farms but not a lot . Never ride the roads and smell it like south ga . And as far as over harvesting , I’m not buying that either , we’ve been killing the same amounts for ever. And gobblers don’t lay eggs . My guess is the population will self correct and the biologist will look like geniuses .
First of all thank you! My intention...and hate to use this expression...was to " raise awareness ". As birds of prey go...all I know is that Coopers Hawks population have increased 300% and quail are down 80%. And I am 100% with you on feeders drawing predators...and turkeys. My hope is that we turkey hunters do whatever it takes to get the numbers back up. QTM like QDM. If we all help one hen nest successfully , that's a start. Thank you for commenting!
 

Nicodemus

The Recluse
Staff member
Thanks for taking time for this , maybe it will help . Even if it’s just a little . I think the #1 problem is predators , nest raiders and birds of prey . No one Coon hunts , the fur market is gone and they are being fed unlimited supplies of corn and protein feed . By almost all deer hunters , me included . May be totally wrong but just my belief. It’s a cardinal sin to kill a bird of prey , and all of our elders shot every one they seen . Even the areas of hardly any habitat change has seen a decline . I’ve been in 2 leases recently that had an excellent quail population and they both were recently cut . Also haven’t we always had fire ants ? And in my area we have no agriculture for chicken manure . Some cattle farms but not a lot . Never ride the roads and smell it like south ga . And as far as over harvesting , I’m not buying that either , we’ve been killing the same amounts for ever. And gobblers don’t lay eggs . My guess is the population will self correct and the biologist will look like geniuses .


Ant, I saw my first fire ant around 1963, give or take. This was in Wheeler County. I also remember big planes flying over and you could see the clouds of DDT pellets being dispersed. That stopped them cold, but what happened after that is well known news. When that was stopped, fire ants returned with a vengeance.
 

buckpasser

Senior Member
I appreciate your video and thoughts on the subject. Some of your listed reason are legit, no arguing it. Predators, habitat, etc. Where we differ is overharvest. They’ve been hunted hard for many, many years, and if you’re being honest, the recent turkey doc theory has probably spurred you to believe we are killing them too early, too often, etc. I personally don’t believe that is at all responsible for a decline and any way, ever. A new approach would give more hunters more opportunity at a Tom, and for that reason I don’t oppose it. Daily limit, two per season, whatever. Fine. (Ants were here for the boom and are not the problem either)

To see why recruitment is down, simply raise some turkeys from eggs at your property in an enclosure. Here, in south GA the entire clutch will likely get “foul pox”. Some will die, and most will be severely weakened. Without chicken wire, a roof and special human care, I venture to say most all of your poults would perish before a single possum, coon, hawk, owl, coyote or bobcat gets their cut.

As wildlife managers, we have a limited ability to help wild turkeys if we have the ground, time and the finances for it. We can’t stop disease or untimely rains, but we can provide adequate habitat, lessen the number of competing predators, and not senselessly scorch nests. That’s all we can do for now. Turkeys will bounce back.
 
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