Turkey decline

[Whitetailcartel]

I appreciate your video and thoughts on the subject. Some of your listed reason are legit, no arguing it. Predators, habitat, etc. Where we differ is overharvest. They’ve been hunted hard for many, many years, and if you’re being honest, the recent turkey doc theory has probably spurred you to believe we are killing them too early, too often, etc. I personally don’t believe that is at all responsible for a decline and any way, ever. A new approach would give more hunters more opportunity at a Tom, and for that reason I don’t oppose it. Daily limit, two per season, whatever. Fine. (Ants were here for the boom and are not the problem either)

To see why recruitment is down, simply raise some turkeys from eggs at your property in an enclosure. Here, in south GA the entire clutch will likely get “foul pox”. Some will die, and most will be severely weakened. Without chicken wire, a roof and special human care, I venture to say most all of your poults would perish before a single possum, coon, hawk, owl, coyote or bobcat gets their cut.

As wildlife managers, we have a limited ability to help wild turkeys if we have the ground, time and the finances for it. We can’t stop disease or untimely rains, but we can provide adequate habitat, lessen the number of competing predators, and not senselessly scorch nests. That’s all we can do for now. Turkeys will bounce back.

I appreciate your comments. However, there are some areas where we disagree. .I don't believe turkeys will bounce back unless changes are made. Changes to habit management, changes to bag limits and changes to timber harvest practices. This decline is at a landscape level...multiple states and regions. I also disagree with you on predators. When predator numbers reach a certain level , game populations cannot recover on their own.
More importantly , we agree completely on where we can help: habitat management and predator removal. And we agree we want to see turkeys return to former population levels!

 

[dtala]

as far as fire ants, I have personally seen a couple of instances of fire ants killing small fawns. Once they bite any fire ant nearby will come to them and add more bites.

 

[Whitetailcartel]

as far as fire ants, I have personally seen a couple of instances of fire ants killing small fawns. Once they bite any fire ant nearby will come to them and add more bites.

I'm with you ?%. Burn a hayfield in January and you will get a real idea of how many fireants are out there!

 

[buckpasser]

I'm with you ?%. Burn a hayfield in January and you will get a real idea of how many fireants are out there!

It’s off label, but I bet if someone were to apply 4oz/ac of Taurus, there will be zero for over a year. Just saying...

 

[buckpasser]

I appreciate your comments. However, there are some areas where we disagree. .I don't believe turkeys will bounce back unless changes are made. Changes to habit management, changes to bag limits and changes to timber harvest practices. This decline is at a landscape level...multiple states and regions. I also disagree with you on predators. When predator numbers reach a certain level , game populations cannot recover on their own.
More importantly , we agree completely on where we can help: habitat management and predator removal. And we agree we want to see turkeys return to former population levels!

If we could change timber management practices we would for sure, sadly that’s just too big an if. Where did we disagree on predators?

 

[Whitetailcartel]

It’s off label, but I bet if someone were to apply 4oz/ac of Taurus, there will be zero for over a year. Just saying...

I'll give it a try!

 

[sea trout]

I would like to be able to learn more about wide spread disease.
Also I agree with nest predators numbers up. Not the varmint hunting goin on that I remember as a kid.

I'd like to read and learn more about turkey decline nationwide. I've never heard of that before. I was under the assumption this was just a in a lotta areas of south east problem.
I know turkey's in the North East are flourishing. They are even moving up higher and some have been seen by my cousins on the Maine Canadian border.
I watched and read how they are flourishing well out west.
To every problem blamed there is a contradiction else where in this country.
Ga is striving with trees. The plains states are not. But the turkey flocks there do well. Clear cuts don't wipe out turkeys. They'll move to roost in trees and work the clear cuts to feed and strut.
Urban sprawl doesn't wipe out turkeys. Flocks of birds will live in suburbs with people just fine. Matter a fact they mostly go unhunted in suburbia.
Ants and armadillos moved up from South and west of us. Before the decline the birds in Florida lived with the ants and dillers and flourished.
Over huntin??? I don't know. There is definetly more turkey huntin pressure now than in the past. But more success in dead gobblers??? I don't know. The biologist everyone is been talkin about has mentioned the huntin pressure while huntin peak breeding season is not good.
Most my knowledge comes from where I hunt. I got cow farms in Habersham that use chicken litter and them turkey flocks have declined. Not blaming chicken poo yet but it is interesting and I'd like to learn more FACTS about it relative to wild turkey. That flock is still good but it has declined.
Our 1600 acre hunting club is pine management and it's flocks flourish. They clear cut this and clear cut that and the birds move around and utilize different stages of forest growth differently but they don't die or take off into another dimension.

I'd like to learn more.
And I'd like to see coon huntin be MORE inviting and convienient so them folks can take out more varmints!!!

Good luck everybody!!!

 

[tr21]

this could be part of the problem ! i took these pics of a turkey shot this season, UGLY for sure !

 

[Whitetailcartel]

I would like to be able to learn more about wide spread disease.
Also I agree with nest predators numbers up. Not the varmint hunting goin on that I remember as a kid.

I'd like to read and learn more about turkey decline nationwide. I've never heard of that before. I was under the assumption this was just a in a lotta areas of south east problem.
I know turkey's in the North East are flourishing. They are even moving up higher and some have been seen by my cousins on the Maine Canadian border.
I watched and read how they are flourishing well out west.
To every problem blamed there is a contradiction else where in this country.
Ga is striving with trees. The plains states are not. But the turkey flocks there do well. Clear cuts don't wipe out turkeys. They'll move to roost in trees and work the clear cuts to feed and strut.
Urban sprawl doesn't wipe out turkeys. Flocks of birds will live in suburbs with people just fine. Matter a fact they mostly go unhunted in suburbia.
Ants and armadillos moved up from South and west of us. Before the decline the birds in Florida lived with the ants and dillers and flourished.
Over huntin??? I don't know. There is definetly more turkey huntin pressure now than in the past. But more success in dead gobblers??? I don't know. The biologist everyone is been talkin about has mentioned the huntin pressure while huntin peak breeding season is not good.
Most my knowledge comes from where I hunt. I got cow farms in Habersham that use chicken litter and them turkey flocks have declined. Not blaming chicken poo yet but it is interesting and I'd like to learn more FACTS about it relative to wild turkey. That flock is still good but it has declined.
Our 1600 acre hunting club is pine management and it's flocks flourish. They clear cut this and clear cut that and the birds move around and utilize different stages of forest growth differently but they don't die or take off into another dimension.

I'd like to learn more.
And I'd like to see coon huntin be MORE inviting and convienient so them folks can take out more varmints!!!

Good luck everybody!!!

I agree! And as I said in Video...I don't know! I don't think " they" know! And I suspect chicken litter...but I would love to see hard research on it. However, chicken industry is huge...and connected. I doubt we ever see a research study on it. Until we know..all we can do is provide best habitat $$ will allow. And lower predator numbers. And I know its not popular...but I believe deer baiting being legal plays a role. It concentrates turkeys...and predators. Thank you for commenting!

 

[Whitetailcartel]

this could be part of the problem ! i took these pics of a turkey shot this season, UGLY for sure !View attachment 1086833View attachment 1086834

Wow! Nasty. Sure it's not related, but I hunted for 30 years and never killed a bird with " beard rot" but we have killed 3 in last 4 years with it.

 

[tr21]

yes we believe it is blackhead disease

 

[buckpasser]

this could be part of the problem ! i took these pics of a turkey shot this season, UGLY for sure !View attachment 1086833

That looks like what the game chicken guys call “fowl pox”. I believe it’s mosquito spread and when those little cystic bumps form on an eyelid it’s gameover. I’ve seen them walking around in circles when only one eye is effected.

 

[buckpasser]

I know it’s from the FL line to the Mountains because my mountain buddy walked right up on a hen this year with it and filmed it. When she finally got the good eye on him she flushed, but a predator wouldn’t have been so kind to her.

 

[buckpasser]

https://www.merckvetmanual.com/poultry/fowlpox/fowlpox-in-chickens-and-turkeys

 

[Whitetailcartel]

https://www.merckvetmanual.com/poultry/fowlpox/fowlpox-in-chickens-and-turkeys

Thanks for posting link..very interesting!

 

[spencer12]

I would like to be able to learn more about wide spread disease.
Also I agree with nest predators numbers up. Not the varmint hunting goin on that I remember as a kid.

I'd like to read and learn more about turkey decline nationwide. I've never heard of that before. I was under the assumption this was just a in a lotta areas of south east problem.
I know turkey's in the North East are flourishing. They are even moving up higher and some have been seen by my cousins on the Maine Canadian border.
I watched and read how they are flourishing well out west.
To every problem blamed there is a contradiction else where in this country.
Ga is striving with trees. The plains states are not. But the turkey flocks there do well. Clear cuts don't wipe out turkeys. They'll move to roost in trees and work the clear cuts to feed and strut.
Urban sprawl doesn't wipe out turkeys. Flocks of birds will live in suburbs with people just fine. Matter a fact they mostly go unhunted in suburbia.
Ants and armadillos moved up from South and west of us. Before the decline the birds in Florida lived with the ants and dillers and flourished.
Over huntin??? I don't know. There is definetly more turkey huntin pressure now than in the past. But more success in dead gobblers??? I don't know. The biologist everyone is been talkin about has mentioned the huntin pressure while huntin peak breeding season is not good.
Most my knowledge comes from where I hunt. I got cow farms in Habersham that use chicken litter and them turkey flocks have declined. Not blaming chicken poo yet but it is interesting and I'd like to learn more FACTS about it relative to wild turkey. That flock is still good but it has declined.
Our 1600 acre hunting club is pine management and it's flocks flourish. They clear cut this and clear cut that and the birds move around and utilize different stages of forest growth differently but they don't die or take off into another dimension.

I'd like to learn more.
And I'd like to see coon huntin be MORE inviting and convienient so them folks can take out more varmints!!!

Good luck everybody!!!

I began raising heritage turkeys this year for some unknown reason. I have 21 at the moment. Bronze and Narragansett. I’m a complete novice with poultry so I began reading everything I could about raising turkeys. Now, that said I live in south ga, in the heart of farm country. Peanuts and cotton, every year I see more and more piles of chicken manure being spread in more and more fields. We have a bunch of chicken houses around my county as well.
I say all that to say this, chickens can and do get what others have mentioned as blackhead disease. Chickens can actually survive, and very often show little to no symptoms of the disease, however the disease can be present and still spread in a chicken that has completely gotten over the disease. It can lay dormant in the soil (from chicken manure) for years.
Turkeys have a near 100% fatality rate from black head disease. As I learned while researching about my turkeys. If I remember correctly, a turkey can contract the disease and die within a few weeks. The problem is that once one gets it, it generally runs through a whole flock as they are tightly woven together. I think this is playing a role as well. I’ve seen fields where turkeys are there everyday (freshly plowed) and then they dump the manure on it, and I won’t see another turkey there until the next year (maybe). That coupled with what others have said about predators, habitat etc has to all play a huge role. I have seen turkeys decline in many areas around me. Flocks of 30-40 in the fall were common. I can’t remember the last time I saw more than 10 in a group. I have however seen them in a lot of new areas just in lower numbers. Where I used to see 50 in a 5 mile stretch I may see 10 now.

 

[spencer12]

this could be part of the problem ! i took these pics of a turkey shot this season, UGLY for sure !View attachment 1086833

You should have contacted dnr with that bird. Interesting.

 

[buckpasser]

You should have contacted dnr with that bird. Interesting.

They would have kept it for six months and then informed him it died of blunt force trauma.

 

[sea trout]

yes we believe it is blackhead disease

I began raising heritage turkeys this year for some unknown reason. I have 21 at the moment. Bronze and Narragansett. I’m a complete novice with poultry so I began reading everything I could about raising turkeys. Now, that said I live in south ga, in the heart of farm country. Peanuts and cotton, every year I see more and more piles of chicken manure being spread in more and more fields. We have a bunch of chicken houses around my county as well.
I say all that to say this, chickens can and do get what others have mentioned as blackhead disease. Chickens can actually survive, and very often show little to no symptoms of the disease, however the disease can be present and still spread in a chicken that has completely gotten over the disease. It can lay dormant in the soil (from chicken manure) for years.
Turkeys have a near 100% fatality rate from black head disease. As I learned while researching about my turkeys. If I remember correctly, a turkey can contract the disease and die within a few weeks. The problem is that once one gets it, it generally runs through a whole flock as they are tightly woven together. I think this is playing a role as well. I’ve seen fields where turkeys are there everyday (freshly plowed) and then they dump the manure on it, and I won’t see another turkey there until the next year (maybe). That coupled with what others have said about predators, habitat etc has to all play a huge role. I have seen turkeys decline in many areas around me. Flocks of 30-40 in the fall were common. I can’t remember the last time I saw more than 10 in a group. I have however seen them in a lot of new areas just in lower numbers. Where I used to see 50 in a 5 mile stretch I may see 10 now.

I've heard that black head disease and also cholera can be present in commerecial chickens and have little affect on them because the chickens we eat only need to live for 6 weeks anyway. But these diseases are deadly to a wild turkey flock.
I agree that the commercial poultry industry is a huge money maker and hunters pleas for more studies on the relation to wild turkey may not be important to the industry.

 

[tr21]

this bird was on a wma, no fields are nearby that would have chicken manure spread on them .