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WaltL1

Senior Member
If one can’t figure out which bathroom they should relieving themselves in then I don’t want them around me. I particularly don’t want them doing anything around me that might compromise safety.
I'm sure they know which bathroom they should be using. They just dont want it to be true.
I personally dont give a hoot if a man wants to be a woman. They dont scare me, disgust me (ok I cringe a little) nor do I think they are more "dangerous" than other groups of people. But at least be honest/respectful enough as to what you physically are and act accordingly when it comes to bathrooms etc.
 

oldfella1962

Senior Member
I'm sure they know which bathroom they should be using. They just dont want it to be true.
I personally dont give a hoot if a man wants to be a woman. They dont scare me, disgust me (ok I cringe a little) nor do I think they are more "dangerous" than other groups of people. But at least be honest/respectful enough as to what you physically are and act accordingly when it comes to bathrooms etc.
I agree. I don't care what you do in the privacy of your own home as long as it involves willing adults. But if you are going to be interacting with the general public, act accordingly and don't expect the general public to roll out the red carpet to accommodate your unique lifestyle.
 

WaltL1

Senior Member
I agree. I don't care what you do in the privacy of your own home as long as it involves willing adults. But if you are going to be interacting with the general public, act accordingly and don't expect the general public to roll out the red carpet to accommodate your unique lifestyle.
Exactly
 

NCHillbilly

Administrator
Staff member
"hold a belief that is contrary to reality" is a complicated statement - because everyone's perception of reality is slightly different than everyone else's perception of reality. Some things are a "shared reality" for example nobody denies it when a catastrophic hurricane hits any given location. But the issue is that the followers of three different (belief-based obviously) religions will claim that their god had something to do with the hurricane. :cautious: In other words the "what" part of the story isn't in question, just the "why" - and possible the "how" part - is up for grabs concerning theists.
If you believe that you can change your gender from male to female or vice versa, or that men can get pregnant, that is a belief that is simply contrary to reality. If you believe that white people are all bad and black/brown people are all good, that is a belief that is simply contrary to reality. If you believe that people who choose to live an alternative lifestyle contrary to the norms of society are somehow superior to other people and should be treated better and have more rights than than other people, that is a belief that is contrary to reality. Sorry.
 

oldfella1962

Senior Member
If you believe that you can change your gender from male to female or vice versa, or that men can get pregnant, that is a belief that is simply contrary to reality. If you believe that white people are all bad and black/brown people are all good, that is a belief that is simply contrary to reality. If you believe that people who choose to live an alternative lifestyle contrary to the norms of society are somehow superior to other people and should be treated better and have more rights than than other people, that is a belief that is contrary to reality. Sorry.
I agree with everything you said. (y) That is why I try to be as "independent" as possible concerning politics. In a perfect world the U.S. would have a "Rationality Party" as a political party. Any idea or claim (conservative or liberal) that is over-the-top stupid would not be valid concern and shut down immediately.
 

Big7

The Oracle
I'd rather believe and be wrong than not believe.

There "is" or "isn't" a God, Heaven, Devil and Hades. I happen to believe there is.

I'd rather be wrong and go nowhere when I die than wind up in Hades.
 

oldfella1962

Senior Member
I'd rather believe and be wrong than not believe.

There "is" or "isn't" a God, Heaven, Devil and Hades. I happen to believe there is.

I'd rather be wrong and go nowhere when I die than wind up in Hades.
I understand that you would rather believe than not - but what if you aren't believing in the "right" god? I'm not being a smarty pants, I'm serious: there are thousands of religions across the planet. For the vast majority of people, the "right" god is whatever their family believed in.
And consider this - the Christian God (the New Testament God) is the same God of the Old Testament (but without the Jesus factor) that Judaism worships & follows - and Judaism doesn't believe in Hades as a place of eternal punishment. Judaism wrote the Old Testament, but somehow they forgot about the "eternal punishment" part that is hammered home in the New Testament? :unsure: I've always wondered how Christianity as a whole reconciles this glaring difference in philosophy.
 

ambush80

Senior Member
I would ask is that ^ a bad thing in and of itself?

^ Seems ok to me. By that definition, everybody in here is "woke" to a certain degree.
The problem isnt "wokeness", its the extremes that some (alot) of folks take it to.
A religious comparison would be your average religious folks as compared to Westboro Baptist folks.
The people are the problem not the "woke".
Wokeness was coopted by academia, particularly the "Studies" disciplines (Gender Studies, Fat Studies, Queer Studies....). They are modeled on Marxist ideas of power differentials, but instead of the poor being the victims of the rich, now, the 'marginalized' are the victims of the dominant culture. They adhere to rules that are taken as irrefutable truths, whose basis is 'lived experience'. That, among other reasons, is why wokeness operates just like a religion. The subjectively based 'truths' cannot be examined with reason, indeed, reason itself is a tool of the oppressors used to maintain their position of power. Critical Race Theory and Diversity, Inclusion, and Equity are notions that spun off from the idea of woke.

Anyway, woke isn't what it used to be. Even in it's seemingly positive origin, it still put forth the axiom that people's subjective experiences must be elevated to the level of Revealed Wisdom. To be woke is to have "seen the light".
 
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ambush80

Senior Member
If one can’t figure out which bathroom they should relieving themselves in then I don’t want them around me. I particularly don’t want them doing anything around me that might compromise safety.
I know a trans woman who I would not want in the men's room. They look just like a girl. We knew him as a kid and he probably would have just been a regular gay if the trans social contagion hadn't got a hold of him. In the Philippines, at bigger gas stations or malls they usually had an LGBT bathroom. They were always immaculate and I used them whenever I could.
 

Spotlite

Resident Homesteader
I understand that you would rather believe than not - but what if you aren't believing in the "right" god? I'm not being a smarty pants, I'm serious: there are thousands of religions across the planet. For the vast majority of people, the "right" god is whatever their family believed in.
And consider this - the Christian God (the New Testament God) is the same God of the Old Testament (but without the Jesus factor) that Judaism worships & follows - and Judaism doesn't believe in Hades as a place of eternal punishment. Judaism wrote the Old Testament, but somehow they forgot about the "eternal punishment" part that is hammered home in the New Testament? :unsure: I've always wondered how Christianity as a whole reconciles this glaring difference in philosophy.
Saying that ^^^ I don’t believe you understand what you’re disputing.
 

oldfella1962

Senior Member
Saying that ^^^ I don’t believe you understand what you’re disputing.
I respectfully disagree - I understand exactly what I am disputing. Granted you may have a different perspective concerning the relationship between Judaism and Christianity, and perhaps also a different perspective on the reasons that there are thousands of different (and often contradictory) religious beliefs across the planet.
 

Spotlite

Resident Homesteader
I respectfully disagree - I understand exactly what I am disputing. Granted you may have a different perspective concerning the relationship between Judaism and Christianity, and perhaps also a different perspective on the reasons that there are thousands of different (and often contradictory) religious beliefs across the planet.
“And consider this - the Christian God (the New Testament God) is the same God of the Old Testament (but without the Jesus factor)”

Jesus was most definitely a part of the Old Testament, the entire Old Testament, including the “Torah”.
 

oldfella1962

Senior Member
“And consider this - the Christian God (the New Testament God) is the same God of the Old Testament (but without the Jesus factor)”

Jesus was most definitely a part of the Old Testament, the entire Old Testament, including the “Torah”.
Millions of Jews would disagree with you. That said, it seems to me that many Christians try to shoehorn Jesus into the Old Testament/Torah/Judaism in general. Jews (who wrote the OT and started Judaism long before Jesus was even born) can read the same verses (and many prophesies of course among these OT verses) and offer alternative explanations & interpretations that have nothing to do with Jesus. IMHO maybe both Jews and Christians are "seeing what they want to see" when they read the OT. To be fair (and with no vested interest either way) both religions have thousands of scholars/historians/experts offering sound arguments for their viewpoints.
 

Spotlite

Resident Homesteader
Millions of Jews would disagree with you. That said, it seems to me that many Christians try to shoehorn Jesus into the Old Testament/Torah/Judaism in general. Jews (who wrote the OT and started Judaism long before Jesus was even born) can read the same verses (and many prophesies of course among these OT verses) and offer alternative explanations & interpretations that have nothing to do with Jesus. IMHO maybe both Jews and Christians are "seeing what they want to see" when they read the OT. To be fair (and with no vested interest either way) both religions have thousands of scholars/historians/experts offering sound arguments for their viewpoints.
You disagree, too. The validity of the story isn’t what we’re debating. The Old Testament is full of Jesus, even in Genesis - t u era my point, you’re disputing it and not understanding how Jesus was part of the same Christian God. Look up Christianity- they follow what?

I don’t believe in Bigfoot but I know the stories.
 
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oldfella1962

Senior Member
You disagree, too. The validity of the story isn’t what we’re debating. The Old Testament is full of Jesus, even in Genesis - t u era my point, you’re disputing it and not understanding how Jesus was part of the same Christian God. Look up Christianity- they follow what?

I don’t believe in Bigfoot but I know the stories.
My reading comprehension isn't up to par, so can you tell me which verses in the OT specifically contain the name Jesus or reference Jesus? I must have misread the OT. And call me crazy, but if Jesus was a part of the development of Judaism why don't the Jews (who developed Judaism) know this? :unsure: I don't want to simplify a complicated subject too much, but Christianity is a spin-off from Judaism. Jesus and most of the anonymous authors of the NT were Jews, so it would stand to reason that the NT would have a strong influence from the OT and share common themes. In other words, the dominant religion of the society in which the NT authors lived was Judaism, so they could write new stories interwoven with and influenced by the already existing Jewish culture.
Just my 2 cents. I might be wrong, but I'm not alone in my reasoning is all I'm saying.
 

Spotlite

Resident Homesteader
My reading comprehension isn't up to par, so can you tell me which verses in the OT specifically contain the name Jesus or reference Jesus? I must have misread the OT. And call me crazy, but if Jesus was a part of the development of Judaism why don't the Jews (who developed Judaism) know this? :unsure: I don't want to simplify a complicated subject too much, but Christianity is a spin-off from Judaism. Jesus and most of the anonymous authors of the NT were Jews, so it would stand to reason that the NT would have a strong influence from the OT and share common themes. In other words, the dominant religion of the society in which the NT authors lived was Judaism, so they could write new stories interwoven with and influenced by the already existing Jewish culture.
Just my 2 cents. I might be wrong, but I'm not alone in my reasoning is all I'm saying.
Your comprehension is fine and no, you’re not alone in your reasoning. There are tons of Jews for Jesus so this is going to spiral right down to believing or not believing.

Christianity - the Word was always there. The Word was said o be Jesus. Prophecy of Jesus’s birth and ministry are there.

So, the Christian God of the Old Testament is the same God of the New Testament with the Jesus factor in both Testaments.

Regardless if you believe it or not, that’s the Christian story.
 

oldfella1962

Senior Member
Your comprehension is fine and no, you’re not alone in your reasoning. There are tons of Jews for Jesus so this is going to spiral right down to believing or not believing.

Christianity - the Word was always there. The Word was said o be Jesus. Prophecy of Jesus’s birth and ministry are there.

So, the Christian God of the Old Testament is the same God of the New Testament with the Jesus factor in both Testaments.

Regardless if you believe it or not, that’s the Christian story.
I used to be a Christian until I really started to evaluate & examine why I believed & what I actually believed and bounced it up against reality (as I actually & personally experience reality). Now am not convinced that anything supernatural/paranormal exists. I am NOT saying that I believe that a god couldn't exist, but I am saying that I am not convinced that a god DOES exist. But with thousands of religions on the planet with no evidence * for the existence of any supernatural god, I have no reason to be optimistic about seeing any evidence.
* the "evidence" for the existence of any god is of course accepted by the circle of believers in that god, but not those outside that circle. This indicates to me that people see what they want to see - they form their own reality. This is just basic & typical human nature, no "god" required.
 

bullethead

Of the hard cast variety
Your comprehension is fine and no, you’re not alone in your reasoning. There are tons of Jews for Jesus so this is going to spiral right down to believing or not believing.

Christianity - the Word was always there. The Word was said o be Jesus. Prophecy of Jesus’s birth and ministry are there.

So, the Christian God of the Old Testament is the same God of the New Testament with the Jesus factor in both Testaments.

Regardless if you believe it or not, that’s the Christian story.
The Word is interpreted by Christians to be Jesus. Some serious interpretation twisting is needed to turn the vague and non specific scripture in the OT to mean what Christians want it to mean.
The OT never, ever, not even once mentions Jesus/Joshua/Yeshua, of the NT, let alone specifically to be a god, share god status, be a son of god, or in any way suggests that anyone with that name will fulfill prophesy.
The OT says:
Isaiah 7:14, “A young woman(alma) will conceive and you will call his name Immanuel”
Try as every pro-christian writer, preacher,and believer might....Immanuel does not mean Jesus the same as Spotlite does not mean bullethead. The same amount of twisting would be needed for each to come to the conclusion that each are the same.

Let the twisting, faulty interpretation, and additon of dots which are not there to connect commence.
 
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bullethead

Of the hard cast variety
Jesus was most definitely a part of the Old Testament, the entire Old Testament, including the “Torah”.
Christians believe that because of fabricated interpretation.

The word of God in the OT does not mention the NT Jesus, nor does he mention sharing the role of God with anyone else in the future.
 
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