Well, I hate to say I told you so…

[Gut_Pile]

From what I have been told, the Craig Harper study has been accepted for peer review, in which many people believe it's going to get torn apart.

I was also told that Tennessee at this time has no plans of changing back to original season dates bc Harper's study doesn't carry enough weight.

Time will tell

 

[buckpasser]

From what I have been told, the Craig Harper study has been accepted for peer review, in which many people believe it's going to get torn apart.

I was also told that Tennessee at this time has no plans of changing back to original season dates bc Harper's study doesn't carry enough weight.

Time will tell

Time will tell, but this will be very hard to argue with. When GA tried it on the experimental area, it didn’t work. It hasn’t worked anywhere. Common sense tells you it’s stupid, because it is. I will find it interesting if TN doesn’t go back very quickly. If they polled at 75% of hunters want it changed, and it doesn’t work, why stay later???

 

[kmckinnie]

Common sense tells me. The more the gobblers durning the peak breed is better. Just my .02 cent. We kill bigger birds mid April due to the fact the gobbler is looking for a hen. We are the hen. Hey but what do I know. I’m not a guide calling and want my hunter to be successful.
Just a good Ol boy with a slate and a box call.
What I want to see is more successful hatched. Habitat here has changed. Still changing. Pines are growing. Opening up. With a stroke of luck. Just maybe things will multiply.

 

[Tail Chaser]

Go back to a Fall season, from Thanksgiving week till February 28, mature gobblers only, present already legal weapons only, limit 2. Plus, doing this will cut out a fair amount of hunters.

I’ve never had the opportunity to hunt a fall flock and probably wouldn’t know where to start. However, I would disagree that this would improve anything. I think more turkeys would die (not just gobblers) to “opportunistic hunters” as they sit in a deer stand, overlooking a corn pile, waiting on a deer and shooting a turkey with their Bone Collector muzzleloader (legal firearm) that is no different than a modern day rifle. Now, I know times were different when you were a boy and folks were more focussed on feeding their families and enjoying GOD’s creation while working hard to stay alive. But that world is far behind us. Today, too many “influencers” have sold their ethics to fame and money. All they worry about is content, views, and likes! This has created far more “turkey hunters” than there has ever been in the last 30-40 years. I remember in the 80’s and 90’s being able to count the number of turkey hunters I knew on both hands. Now, I can count that many in my church. The truth is there is no “silver bullet” that explains the turkey decline. I have agreed with @buckpasser that it seems to be more of a disease issue and not a breeding issue and I strongly feel that deer feed/bait has played a significant role. Not just in aflatoxin, but also predation near bait sites. These things mixed with loss of habitat and untimely fires disrupting nests have gotten the population well below the bell curve. I have supported the later season start to just try something different and see if a positive change would take place. We even stopped hunting two seasons in ‘21 and ‘22 then delayed our start to hunting in ‘23 and ‘24 to April 15th. We have seen an increase in the populations but, I can’t attribute it to just one thing. For my kids sake, I hope we can all work collectively to try and figure this thing out.

 

[WOODIE13]

I’ve never had the opportunity to hunt a fall flock and probably wouldn’t know where to start. However, I would disagree that this would improve anything. I think more turkeys would die (not just gobblers) to “opportunistic hunters” as they sit in a deer stand, overlooking a corn pile, waiting on a deer and shooting a turkey with their Bone Collector muzzleloader (legal firearm) that is no different than a modern day rifle. Now, I know times were different when you were a boy and folks were more focussed on feeding their families and enjoying GOD’s creation while working hard to stay alive. But that world is far behind us. Today, too many “influencers” have sold their ethics to fame and money. All they worry about is content, views, and likes! This has created far more “turkey hunters” than there has ever been in the last 30-40 years. I remember in the 80’s and 90’s being able to count the number of turkey hunters I knew on both hands. Now, I can count that many in my church. The truth is there is no “silver bullet” that explains the turkey decline. I have agreed with @buckpasser that it seems to be more of a disease issue and not a breeding issue and I strongly feel that deer feed/bait has played a significant role. Not just in aflatoxin, but also predation near bait sites. These things mixed with loss of habitat and untimely fires disrupting nests have gotten the population well below the bell curve. I have supported the later season start to just try something different and see if a positive change would take place. We even stopped hunting two seasons in ‘21 and ‘22 then delayed our start to hunting in ‘23 and ‘24 to April 15th. We have seen an increase in the populations but, I can’t attribute it to just one thing. For my kids sake, I hope we can all work collectively to try and figure this thing out.

It's not over bait, still illegal in the majority of places, not during mating season (thunder chickens are safe) to let them breed and if you never done it, you have no clue...to be straight up and true.

Might as well do a fall season and cut half off the spring season, since fall was the "original " turkey season

Many states have a fall or winter season and most surpass GA...just saying

 

[buckpasser]

It's not over bait, still illegal in the majority of places, not during mating season (thunder chickens are safe) to let them breed and if you never done it, you have no clue...to be straight up and true.

Might as well do a fall season and cut half off the spring season, since fall was the "original " turkey season

Many states have a fall or winter season and most surpass GA...just saying

I’ve not done it either (with the exception of some opportunistic hunts in IL), but even you can’t deny it would mean the death of a pile of turkeys by deer hunters who otherwise don’t care to hunt them. It’s not a good idea for GA at this point. Spring hunting is where it’s at for gobbling, strutting, and seeing the turkeys in a frenzied state, which is why it’s so popular.

 

[WOODIE13]

Turkey rut is real

 

[sea trout]

It's not over bait, still illegal in the majority of places, not during mating season (thunder chickens are safe) to let them breed and if you never done it, you have no clue...to be straight up and true.

Might as well do a fall season and cut half off the spring season, since fall was the "original " turkey season

Many states have a fall or winter season and most surpass GA...just saying

I’ve not done it either (with the exception of some opportunistic hunts in IL), but even you can’t deny it would mean the death of a pile of turkeys by deer hunters who otherwise don’t care to hunt them. It’s not a good idea for GA at this point. Spring hunting is where it’s at for gobbling, strutting, and seeing the turkeys in a frenzied state, which is why it’s so popular.

I see turkeys while deer huntin very often. Sometimes I'll call to them and they'll meander over.

I love my hands on a dead gobbler that I was a part of the hunt! I even love seein, touchin, hearin the story from another dead gobbler I wasn't a part of.
But the only thing that drives me insane about this is their spring gobbling and strutting and spittin and drummin. The action is why I'm pshyco about it.
I hope that can continue in Ga.!!!!! I think wide spread desiese. But I don't know what.
I just know every other excuse has a contradiction

 

[poorcountrypreacher]

Red shouldered hawks, oak snakes, great horned owls, possums, and coons. These predators probably do more damage to the turkey flock than anything, in my opinion. At least in my observations.

There is a biologist in Alabama who said that there has been a 700% increase in the Coopers Hawk population since 1980, and he believes that they are the worst predator of poults. Unlike most of the other hawks, these will target a brood of poults and eat them until they are all gone.

They are fully protected by federal law, so there is no legal solution.

If you watch the TFT videos, you will see that problem with declining turkey populations never had anything to do with hens being bred; it was always about predators eating the poults.

 

[cj580guitar]

There is a biologist in Alabama who said that there has been a 700% increase in the Coopers Hawk population since 1980, and he believes that they are the worst predator of poults. Unlike most of the other hawks, these will target a brood of poults and eat them until they are all gone.

They are fully protected by federal law, so there is no legal solution.

If you watch the TFT videos, you will see that problem with declining turkey populations never had anything to do with hens being bred; it was always about predators eating the poults.

I agree with the increase in avian predators. Hawks and owls are everywhere.

 

[antharper]

I see turkeys while deer huntin very often. Sometimes I'll call to them and they'll meander over.

I love my hands on a dead gobbler that I was a part of the hunt! I even love seein, touchin, hearin the story from another dead gobbler I wasn't a part of.
But the only thing that drives me insane about this is their spring gobbling and strutting and spittin and drummin. The action is why I'm pshyco about it.
I hope that can continue in Ga.!!!!! I think wide spread desiese. But I don't know what.
I just know every other excuse has a contradiction

I couldn’t agree with this more , I’d probably give it up if we had a fall season . For sure wouldn’t shoot one while deer hunting , what fun/challenge would that be

 

[Nicodemus]

I couldn’t agree with this more , I’d probably give it up if we had a fall season . For sure wouldn’t shoot one while deer hunting , what fun/challenge would that be

Actually, it is a whole lot harder to kill a mature gobbler in the Fall than it is in the spring. He has no reason to come to you in the Fall and winter, and when you do call one up and kill it, you`ve really done something. I`m not talking about jakes and hens, just mature gobblers.

 

[WOODIE13]

Actually, it is a whole lot harder to kill a mature gobbler in the Fall than it is in the spring. He has no reason to come to you in the Fall and winter, and when you do call one up and kill it, you`ve really done something. I`m not talking about jakes and hens, just mature gobblers.

The unknown Nic

 

[Sixes]

I guess I'm just not smart enough to blame it on one thing. These are my thoughts (right or wrong) on these theories.

Killing mature gobblers too early is interrupting the breeding cycle? Ridiculous, one male can breed as many hens as he can and killing a mature bird just puts number 2 breeding the hens. That is the whole theory behind the term pecking order.

Habitat change? Possibly some of the problem but when you look at over the whole of the state, very little of the hunting land has changed. WMAs (thousands of acres) do not change, my hunting area has not changed in any other way for the last 30 years. Surrounding land and ours have been cut and replanted at various time, but that didn't change the habitat and the population was always stable or growing. There are HUGE swaths of farmland that have been the same for decades and the turkey have disappeared. In pockets, I'm sure birds have left to better areas but that should not make them disappear.

Predators? I don't have a clue. I've lived most all of my life and have never known a trapper in Georgia. Trapping is something that I think of as more northern type of thing. I've seen plenty of coons, yotes, snakes, etc over the years on camera and plenty of turkeys. There are a lot more hawks, but I noticed that 25 years ago.

Corn feeders? I have NEVER found turkey feathers from a kill around a feeder.

Over Harvest? No hens should ever be shot, so that is a non factor.

Disease? That would be my thought but I don't know how it could be proven.

Number of Hunters? Should not affect hen numbers, so should not affect clutches.

Here is my thoughts: I think that a few years ago, something (disease) happened to the flocks and killed a lot of hens. Now with lesser number of hens results in the lesser number of poults. Fewer poults leads to lower numbers of adults and the cycle continues on a downhill trend. The reason that I think it is disease related is what I saw happen through middle GA is the population didn't appear to slowly decline, they disappeared over a 1-2 year period. Fields with birds always present were vacant and they didn't just relocate, they disappeared.

What can be done? I have zero idea. I think we are at the mercy of nature until the hen population comes back enough to have tons of poults surviving.

Sorry about rambling

 

[buckpasser]

I guess I'm just not smart enough to blame it on one thing. These are my thoughts (right or wrong) on these theories.

Killing mature gobblers too early is interrupting the breeding cycle? Ridiculous, one male can breed as many hens as he can and killing a mature bird just puts number 2 breeding the hens. That is the whole theory behind the term pecking order.

Habitat change? Possibly some of the problem but when you look at over the whole of the state, very little of the hunting land has changed. WMAs (thousands of acres) do not change, my hunting area has not changed in any other way for the last 30 years. Surrounding land and ours have been cut and replanted at various time, but that didn't change the habitat and the population was always stable or growing. There are HUGE swaths of farmland that have been the same for decades and the turkey have disappeared. In pockets, I'm sure birds have left to better areas but that should not make them disappear.

Predators? I don't have a clue. I've lived most all of my life and have never known a trapper in Georgia. Trapping is something that I think of as more northern type of thing. I've seen plenty of coons, yotes, snakes, etc over the years on camera and plenty of turkeys. There are a lot more hawks, but I noticed that 25 years ago.

Corn feeders? I have NEVER found turkey feathers from a kill around a feeder.

Over Harvest? No hens should ever be shot, so that is a non factor.

Disease? That would be my thought but I don't know how it could be proven.

Number of Hunters? Should not affect hen numbers, so should not affect clutches.

Here is my thoughts: I think that a few years ago, something (disease) happened to the flocks and killed a lot of hens. Now with lesser number of hens results in the lesser number of poults. Fewer poults leads to lower numbers of adults and the cycle continues on a downhill trend. The reason that I think it is disease related is what I saw happen through middle GA is the population didn't appear to slowly decline, they disappeared over a 1-2 year period. Fields with birds always present were vacant and they didn't just relocate, they disappeared.

What can be done? I have zero idea. I think we are at the mercy of nature until the hen population comes back enough to have tons of poults surviving.

Sorry about rambling

You’re all over it. Ramble on!

 

[WOODIE13]

Might as well throw in fire ants too

 

[NCHillbilly]

How do we tell that something works or doesn't in one or two seasons as some here seem to think we can? That's my question. The answer is, we can't. Weather has more of an effect on turkey recruitment than most things. You can't make any kind of determination on two years of data.

 

[Sixes]

I'm not sure about everyone else's areas, but I also saw the armadillo population make a huge decline and basically disappear from our lease in Troup and the property that I hunted in middle GA at around the same time.

I doubt there is a correlation, but they either died out or moved out and are just now starting to make a reappearance on our land in Troup.

I hate them, but they did seem to keep the fire ants at bay.

 

[Dupree]

I’ve seen the populations fluctuate since I started turkey hunting in 2000. Places that were loaded back then ain’t good now, and other places that weren’t good back then have healthy populations now. The landscape changes, and with that, turkey patterns. I had two good private places a couple years ago, and in the last two years some properties within a half mile-mile have been clear cut or had houses built. Although nothing changed on the land I have access to, the turkeys aren’t there anymore.

I have no issues finding plenty of turkeys to hunt, but sometimes it takes more than just showing up to where they used to be. If I hunted the same piece of dirt year after year exclusively I might be crying about the lack of birds like so many do.

As a whole, I do agree that poult recruitment isn’t as high as it should be. The main thing imo is avian predators. Hawks are everywhere now. 20-30 years ago there was enough old timers still around that killed everyone of them they saw. Great habitat does help hide poults from the avian predators, but if you don’t own the land it’s mostly out of your control.

 

[sea trout]

I guess I'm just not smart enough to blame it on one thing. These are my thoughts (right or wrong) on these theories.

Killing mature gobblers too early is interrupting the breeding cycle? Ridiculous, one male can breed as many hens as he can and killing a mature bird just puts number 2 breeding the hens. That is the whole theory behind the term pecking order.

Habitat change? Possibly some of the problem but when you look at over the whole of the state, very little of the hunting land has changed. WMAs (thousands of acres) do not change, my hunting area has not changed in any other way for the last 30 years. Surrounding land and ours have been cut and replanted at various time, but that didn't change the habitat and the population was always stable or growing. There are HUGE swaths of farmland that have been the same for decades and the turkey have disappeared. In pockets, I'm sure birds have left to better areas but that should not make them disappear.

Predators? I don't have a clue. I've lived most all of my life and have never known a trapper in Georgia. Trapping is something that I think of as more northern type of thing. I've seen plenty of coons, yotes, snakes, etc over the years on camera and plenty of turkeys. There are a lot more hawks, but I noticed that 25 years ago.

Corn feeders? I have NEVER found turkey feathers from a kill around a feeder.

Over Harvest? No hens should ever be shot, so that is a non factor.

Disease? That would be my thought but I don't know how it could be proven.

Number of Hunters? Should not affect hen numbers, so should not affect clutches.

Here is my thoughts: I think that a few years ago, something (disease) happened to the flocks and killed a lot of hens. Now with lesser number of hens results in the lesser number of poults. Fewer poults leads to lower numbers of adults and the cycle continues on a downhill trend. The reason that I think it is disease related is what I saw happen through middle GA is the population didn't appear to slowly decline, they disappeared over a 1-2 year period. Fields with birds always present were vacant and they didn't just relocate, they disappeared.

What can be done? I have zero idea. I think we are at the mercy of nature until the hen population comes back enough to have tons of poults surviving.

Sorry about rambling

that's a good ramble
And I agree a lot