What is love in the spiritual context? What gives reason and logic its spiritual truth?

Thread starter #1

gordon 2

Senior Member
Love is knowledge and truth inspired to the emotional nature of man to which the intellect can be applied as to description, effects and attributes.

Truth can only be thought by the intellect's use of reason if first truth has been inspired as love and as, by and to the emotions as love.

Intellectual reasonings can impart spiritual inspiration only if the subjects under its optic were first inspired to the emotional nature of man as love.

When we seek truth in an account meant to inspire as a spiritual truth we seek by logic to find the expression of love within and therefore are able to confirm it as truth.

The context of what is spiritually prized in a context is not meaning derived from context necessary to reason, but from the context of what is necessary to the emotion as inspired love and recognized as such. The ability to recognize as such is only possible by the unique intuitive and natural nature of man to be inspired by love. It is by this nature that man is able to recognize himself with all others including finding himself in relationship to the source of his inspirations.

Love is intuitive and natural serving both the inspired and the inspiring. It is wild and tame. Its formulations cannot be as the needed rules of sentence structure giving contexts to reason. While logic needs context with its beginnings and endings, love in the emotional context has no such things.
 
Thread starter #3

gordon 2

Senior Member
I was inspired from my study of the subject Revelation here: https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13001a.htm

I assumed that it would be of no use to the run of the mill Christians who frequent the other spiritual forums, but it might minister to other people of other faiths with less breastwork in the fields of fellowship.

I really don't know right off what John 4:25 says. I will L:cool::cool:K.
 
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Thread starter #4

gordon 2

Senior Member
Yes: John 4:24, NLT: "For God is Spirit, so those who worship him must worship in spirit and in truth. ... John 4:24, CSB: "God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in Spirit and in truth.""

Yes what I find here is the usually said worship in Spirit and in truth often ends up in an interpretation of one worships spiritually that which is spiritual. But it occurred to me that truth is extremely important here. So I asked what is truth in worship? And it occurred to me that it is love. Our worship is one of love. If love which occurred from God is returned to God then worship is true and wholesome.

Next it occurred to me: What makes the great books of scripture truth is not that they are only the inspired words and the word of God, but they are especially truth because they emphasize love in the spiritual context and this makes them truth. We know that scripture is truth in interpretation if we find the love story within and this is its spiritual truth in my view. We know that Abraham is a great example of faith because of the love that can be found in his account. The truth gets us as only love can. That is it is not from the text with subject, verb and compliments or 1+2-1= 2 but from another system of assessment unique to love.

So what makes predication true to even a simple soul is love. And perhaps since a simple soul does not try to divine truth from precedence in scripture or the many intellectual books of the great spiritual teachers or the learned The Cross makes a whole lot more immediate and poignant sense to them. The Cross is the possibly the greatest story of love the world has ever known.

Paul I think was enraptured that many gentiles got the simplest message of the gospel. He was dismayed that the intellectually involved folk did not.

I think Paul an intellectual who had come to see the gospel's truth with much travail was gob smacked that the truth of the gospel was internalized with depth of spiritual understanding by gentiles or other simple folk
who's spiritual history was into idol worship.

I think the reason for their getting the gospel message was that they were not encumbered by histories of spiritual study as "the law".

They knew love when they seen it in the spiritual context and in seeing it they could in their hearts see it was truth. The Cross made sense, Jesus made sense, God made sense. God was present with them not because they wished it so, but because love is spiritual truth and this love was actively living with them and its origin was/is in God.
 
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Madman

Senior Member
Yes: John 4:24, NLT: "For God is Spirit, so those who worship him must worship in spirit and in truth. ... John 4:24, CSB: "God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in Spirit and in truth.""

Yes what I find here is the usually said worship in Spirit and in truth often ends up in an interpretation of one worships spiritually that which is spiritual. But it occurred to me that truth is extremely important here. So I asked what is truth in worship? And it occurred to me that it is love. Our worship is one of love. If love which occurred from God is returned to God then worship is true and wholesome.

Next it occurred to me: What makes the great books of scripture truth is not that they are only the inspired words and the word of God, but they are especially truth because they emphasize love in the spiritual context and this makes them truth. We know that scripture is truth in interpretation if we find the love story within and this is its spiritual truth in my view. We know that Abraham is a great example of faith because of the love that can be found in his account. The truth gets us as only love can. That is it is not from the text with subject, verb and compliments or 1+2-1= 2 but from another system of assessment unique to love.

So what makes predication true to even a simple soul is love. And perhaps since a simple soul does not try to divine truth from precedence in scripture or the many intellectual books of the great spiritual teachers or the learned The Cross makes a whole lot more immediate and poignant sense to them. The Cross is the possibly the greatest story of love the world has ever known.

Paul I think was enraptured that many gentiles got the simplest message of the gospel. He was dismayed that the intellectually involved folk did not.

I think Paul an intellectual who had come to see the gospel's truth with much travail was gob smacked that the truth of the gospel was internalized with depth of spiritual understanding by gentiles or other simple folk
who's spiritual history was into idol worship.

I think the reason for their getting the gospel message was that they were not encumbered by histories of spiritual study as "the law".

They knew love when they seen it in the spiritual context and in seeing it they could in their hearts see it was truth. The Cross made sense, Jesus made sense, God made sense. God was present with them not because they wished it so, but because love is spiritual truth and this love was actively living with them and its origin was/is in God.
I hope you know that you are delving into a masters level topic in philosophy, which is well beyond me.

Aristotle, Socrates, St. Thomas Aquinas, et. al. have pressed hard into these / this topic.

I find it fascinating and will begin to bone up on the topic of Biblical, spiritual love.

I will leave ypu with this for now; the Churches definition of love is to desire the good for another. A prime example is "God so loved the world that he sent his only begotten son to the end that all who believed in him would not perish but have ever lasting life".

What better desire than that?

Til later.
 
Thread starter #6

gordon 2

Senior Member
Well since I have never even audited a philosophy course--- it must be from another discipline. So later to you and peace.
 

Madman

Senior Member
Well since I have never even audited a philosophy course--- it must be from another discipline. So later to you and peace.
Ohhhhh you ARE a philosopher. Philosophy is nothing more than "thinking deeply".

Some in here choose to stay in the shallow end, not you my friend.

Peace
 
Thread starter #8

gordon 2

Senior Member
My God granted spiritual nature does not fear other's. Though I respect. I rest easy in a church gathering were spiritual expression is demonstrated freely. I am not frightened that one might go down for God's nursing and another made to stand for the same. High and low is just three inches off the ground in both directions. He that heard the sorry Hebrews hears them yet. It must be still as fresh sound to His ear. Some saw as He parted the Sea of Reeds and some He brought into Canaan Land having not seen yet--- will.
 
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Madman

Senior Member
Yes: John 4:24, NLT: "For God is Spirit, so those who worship him must worship in spirit and in truth. ... John 4:24, CSB: "God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in Spirit and in truth.""

Yes what I find here is the usually said worship in Spirit and in truth often ends up in an interpretation of one worships spiritually that which is spiritual. But it occurred to me that truth is extremely important here. So I asked what is truth in worship? And it occurred to me that it is love. Our worship is one of love. If love which occurred from God is returned to God then worship is true and wholesome.
I have to take your thoughts in VERY small bites. There is too much for me to follow all at once even though the same thread holds all your thoughts together.

This passage brings to mind God saying to Moses, "tell them I AM sent you". He IS truth, He IS Love, He IS Spirit, HE IS.

I need to flesh this out, but how does one worship I AM?
 
Thread starter #10

gordon 2

Senior Member
Very good question. I suspect the answer could be " the best one can". If the neck is stiff it would limit the demonstrations of passion in kisses. On the other hand if one has no sense of balance of firm land, one would not on water. Maybe. Maybe the hearts in the congregations determine the worship. If they are true, truth will find them.

It would be interesting to compare the worship of God's people due to Moses's predication and God's people due to the Cross. I suspect a simple study of the history of religion might better answer the question with considerably less bias than my flights of ideas.
 

Madman

Senior Member
Very good question. I suspect the answer could be " the best one can". If the neck is stiff it would limit the demonstrations of passion in kisses. On the other hand if one has no sense of balance of firm land, one would not on water. Maybe. Maybe the hearts in the congregations determine the worship. If they are true, truth will find them.

It would be interesting to compare the worship of God's people due to Moses's predication and God's people due to the Cross. I suspect a simple study of the history of religion might better answer the question with considerably less bias than my flights of ideas.
I see "I AM" bringing adoration into the conversation. Only God is worthy of any type adoration.

The cross shows us Love.
 
Thread starter #13

gordon 2

Senior Member
I see "I AM" bringing adoration into the conversation. Only God is worthy of any type adoration.

The cross shows us Love.
When I think of Moses, I think of a man who is an Egyptian and possibly of the ruling class. He was well versed in the history of Egyptian spirituality where different regimes had single or many gods and where there was a significant creation myth. One regime had but one god, while others had many.

Spirituality was political for Moses( as it was in those days) though it was personally mystical also. It had existential importance to a man of concious especially that he had killed a man.

He exiled himself to avoid the possibility of severe consequences for killing a fellow citizen. He exiles himself possibly with bedouins (and with a man named Jethro if I recall. They-Jethro somehow provided Moses protection from the Egyptians. I think Jethro had a significant influence on Moses. Jethro and his people gave Moses a new perspective from which to sort out what was genuine about religion or man's spiritual nature.

Moses was a mystic who somehow teamed up with Aaron and confronted the Egyptian leadership concerning the Hebrews as an equal and with the wildness and confidence he most likely learned from Jethro. Add to this the burning bush experience, his intimate communion with one God, and the right one... Moses did not have to say, "I've been to the mountain "as if" it was a place others before him had ventured other than perhaps Jethro. Spiritually Egyptians went to the Nile and its fertile deltas but Moses had also the spirituality of a mountain people.

( When I think of Jethro and his people I think of a people similar to the Afghani people's tribal system who seems to hold its own again more powerful and sophisticated nations such as the former British Empire, Russia and the USA.) I think Moses was emboldened by them. They protected him and they could fight the Egyptians by drawing them into ambush--- as in the account of the crossing of the Sea of Reeds. The Hebrews crossed on foot, but the Egyptian chariots got mired etc. trying to get to them.

When I think of Moses I think of God's war tent, which accompanied the Hebrews night and day in the desert, and the tabernacle within, which was not unlike the Egyptian Pharoah's war tent with the Pharoah's throne where the Hebrew tabernacle was situated. The Pharoah proved himself capable with his war tents, and Moses and the Hebrews would prove themselves and their God with one also.

For Moses God was the seat of power from which everything was derived and organized. The power of the Egyptian was dependent on the power of conquest in Pharoah-- a man within a system of ruler-dynasties. Pharoah enriched his people by taking captives. God enriched his people by freeing them. And so God settled his people to make them a people apart, a new beginning, different than the Egyptian and the nations and empires of those days and those that would latter come... and the rest is...not finished yet.

:)

When God freed the Hebrews basically he freed idol worshippers from idol worshippers. I think this is a demonstration of love and it is why the account of Moses rings as truth to the spiritual man. The Cross calls sinners away from sinners and idol worshippers to the Lord. This kind of love is within type of what God did for the Hebrews and assurance that Jesus' ministry was divine in nature.


 
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