Where Are The Dead

Thread starter #1
Spiritual Death (EPH.2:1-10)
What is spiritual death ? It is simply the separation of man from God because of sin. " but your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear" (Isa. 59:2). "And you hath he quickened [made alive, resurrected] who were dead in trespasses and sin . . . even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, ( by grace ye are saved; ) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus" (Eph. 2:1-10).
Adam's penalty was death the day he sinned. This could not refer to physical death, for he lived 930 years after that day. It could only refer to spiritual and eternal death because of being cut off from God by sin. Adam's soul lost life the day he sinned. He did not lose natural life that day or his soul would have ceased to function. Man's natural life exists of itself separate and apart from God, for sinners continue to exist separate from God. Spiritual and eternal life cannot be given until man is resurrected from death in trespasses and sins and united to God (1 Cor. 6:17; Rom. 8:9-16; Eph. 2).
Achan---a man in the days of Joshua whose sin was so great that God refused to bless the nation of Israel further until the sin was judged. If he had been a sinner before this God would have punished him before this ; therefore we know that he was in God's grace until he broke the law, and was executed (Josh. 7:1, 11-15, 22-26).
Resurrection from spiritual death. In Eph. 2 we are told of being quickened and raised up from death in trespasses and sins. The Greek word for quickened is zoopoieo and means to resurrect, make alive, and quicken. It is translated made alive in 1 Cor. 15:22, referring to the physical resurrection of all men. It is translated give life in 2 Cor. 3:6; Gal. 3:21 and quicken in John 5:21; 6:63; Rom. 4:16; 8:11; 1 Cor. 15:36, 45; 1 Tim. 6:13; 1 Pet. 3:18. Sinners are all considered spiritually dead even while they are physically alive (Eph. 2:1-10; Col. 2:13, 13; 1 Tim. 5:6; Jude 12). When they are saved from sin and united to God again they are spiritually resurrected to walk in newness of Life.
 
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Thread starter #2
Doctrine Of Immortality
The words describing the enteral existence or a never dying condition of the soul and body are use of both God and man as.
1. Immortal. This word comes from the Greek word aphtartos, meaning un-decaying, not corruptible , immortal. The word immortal is found only once in Scripture and is used of God ( 1 Tim. 1:17 ). This same Greek word is translated not corruptible in speaking of " the hidden man of the heart " and of the " spirit " of man in 1 Pet. 3:4, thus proving beyond doubt that the inner man is immortal ( see also Ps. 22:26). It is translated incorruptible in referring to the enteral inheritance, and the crown that believers are to receive at the end of this life (1 Cor. 9:25; 1 Pet. 1:4 ). It is translated incorruptible , referring to the Word of God ( 1 Pet. 1:23 ) and of the resurrected bodies of saints ( 1 Cor. 15:52 ).
Thus we can conclude that God, the Word of God, the soul and spirit of man, the future crown, the incorruptible. One can argue that the soul and spirit of man are not immortal, but if Peter said the hidden man of the heart or the spirit is not corruptible that settles it for honest hearts, we have just as much right to argue that God is not immortal as to argue that the souls and spirits of human beings are not immortal. The same Greek word is used of both God and man and if it means immortal in our case it does in the other. The Greek word literally means undecaying in essence or continuance, not corruptible, immortal, incorruptible, and uncorruptible and whatever this word is used with, that person or thing is immortal.
 
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Thread starter #3
Immortality. This word is a translation of two Greek words, meaning the same as the Greek word Immortal.
Aphtharsia
means incorruptibility unending existence, immortality, incorruption, sincerity. It is translated incorruption, referring to the resurrected bodies of saints in 1 Cor. 15:42, 50, 53, 54. It is translated immortality, referring to the life that saints get through the gospel ( Rom. 2:7; 2 Tim. 1:10 ), sincerity, referring to the uncorruptness of the love of men to Christ ( Eph. 6:24 ), and uncorruptness, referring to immortality of the life that saints are to demonstrate before men ( Titus 2:7 ).
Athanasia, meaning deathlessness and immortality. It is used of God being immortal in body and of the bodies of the saints in the resurrection ( 1 Cor. 15:53-54; 1 Tim. 6:16 ). Twice this word is used of man's future immortal body ( 1 Cor. 15: 53, 54 ) and once of God being the only immortal one ( Tim. 6:16 ). This does not mean that He is the only one who has immortality of body, but that He is the Source and Giver of all such life to others. Angels have immortal bodies. Christ and the saints that have been resurrected with Him received immortal bodies ( Matt. 27:52, 53; 1 Cor. 15:20-23; Phil. 3:20, 21; Rev. 1:18 ). All men will be raised from the dead to live conscious lives forever, both the righteous and the wicked.
Incorruption. This word is from the Greek aphtharsia as above it is used four times of the resurrected bodies of men ( 1 Cor. 15:42, 50, 53, 54 ).
Incorruptible. This word is from the Greek aphtartos as above . It is used of the resurrected bodies of men ( 1 Cor. 15:52 , of an incorruptible crown ( 1 Cor. 9:25 ), of an incorruptible inheritance ( 1 Pet. 1:4), and of the incorruptible word of God (1 Pet. 1:23 ).
 
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Thread starter #4
Immortality of the Soul and Spirit

The Bible is very clear that the inner man made up of the soul and spirit is now immortal and will continue in a state of consciousness between death and resurrection and forever after the resurrection of the dead. The following proves this beyond doubt:
Plain statements in Scripture prove the immortality of the soul,
Peter said that the inner man or the spirit of man is not corruptible: " But let it be THE HIDDEN MAN OF THE HEART, in that WHICH IS NOT CORRUPTIBLE, even the ornament of a QUIET SPIRIT, which is in the sight of God of great price " (1 Pet. 3:4 ). In Pet. 4:6 it is again stated by the apostle that all the dead live according to God in the spirit, proving that the inner man of ever body continues in consciousness like God. We have to believe this or else believe that God is unconscious. If men after death continue to live according to God in their spirits, then they continue to be conscious like God.
David said of Christ, " For thou will not leave my soul in he11 neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption " ( Ps. 16:9, 10 ). We know that the soul and spirit of Christ was alive and conscious while His body was in the grave. This is proved by the fact that He went and preached to the spirits in prison during that time. Also this is clear from the fact that Christ's soul went into the lower parts and into the heart of the Earth ( Matt. 12:40; Eph. 4:7-11 ) and His body was put in the grave on the surface of the Earth ( Matt. 27:57-66 ). Certainty His grave was not in the center and in the lower parts of the Earth. David said in Psalms 22:26 that the hearts of the saved " shall live forever." The word for heart in this passage is used many times of the feelings, the will, and the mind and it refers to the inner man in this case.
 
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Thread starter #5
The apostles made many statements proving men continue to live after death: " Who died for us, whether we wake [ live in the body ] or sleep [die or leave the body, James 2:26 ], WE SHALL LIVE TOGETHER WITH HIM "( 1 Thess. 5:10 ). This plainly says that the saints who die physically will live together with Christ. This is in prefect harmony with 2 Cor. 5:6-9, " Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, WHILST WE ARE AT HOME IN THE BODY, WE ARE ABSENT FROM THE LORD . . . we are confident, I say and willing rather TO BE ABSENT FROM THE BODY AND TO BE PRESENT WITH THE LORD. Wherefore we labour, that WHETHER PRESENT OR ABSENT, we may be accepted of him. " This proves that the inner man leaves the body at physical death and goes to be with the Lord who is not the God of the dead ( physical body, James 2:26 ) but of the living ( Matt. 22:23-33 ).
 
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Thread starter #6
This same truth is clearly stated in Phil. 1:21-23, "for to me to live is Christ, and TO DIE IS GAIN. But if I live IN THE FLESH, this is the fruit of my labour: yet what I shall choose I wot not. For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire TO DEPART, AND TO BE WITH CHRIST; which is far better: Nevertheless TO ABIDE IN THE FLESH is more needful for you." What gain would there be in physical death if the soul and spirit were dormant and lifeless and unconscious in the grave? How could the soul remain in the body in the grave and still depart from the body to be with Christ? Is Christ in the grave? Is the grave the place saints are to go in order to be with Him at physical death? How could this be far better if the soul is not conscious? How could the grave and total extinction of consciousness after death be far better than to remain in the flesh to win souls for Christ and to help the saints live right? How could the inner man be absent from the body at death if it remained in the body and both went into the grave to be dormant until the resurrection?
Paul speaks of the outward man only as perishing and the inward man being renewed day by day and that the things that are seen [including the body] are temporal and the things that are not seen [including the soul and spirit] ARE ETERNAL ( 2 Cor. 4:16-18 ). This certainly shows the difference between the outer man and the inner man and that one is temporary and the other is eternal. This shows the ever increasing law of death for the body until the soul separates from it at physical death and the ever increasing life of the soul which is eternal.
Paul in 1 Tim. 4:8 refers to a life after this one. This surely speaks of the life after the resurrection, for he makes it clear in other writings that the inner man leaves the body and goes to be with Christ, as seen above. He taught that men who continue in Christ until death had ETERNAL LIFE because they did not give up this life for sin ( 1 Cor. 15:2; Rom. 8:12-13; 1 Thess. 3:8; Gal. 6:7-8 ). He warns men that they have to fight the good fight of faith and lay hold on eternal life to be saved ( 1 Tim. 6:12; Titus 3:7 ). If it is possible to have eternal life, then there will be no period of cessation of life between death and resurrection except as to the body. The real saved person will continue to have eternal life after death or many Scriptures would be untrue ( John 3:16, 36; 5:24; 6:39-58; 10:27-29; 11:25-26; 14:19 ). John said that he that doeth the will of God ABIDETH FOREVER ( 1 John 2:17 ). Others confirm the same thing.
 
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Thread starter #7
Only the body dies and sleeps in the dust until the resurrection. Physical death is the separation of the inner man from the outer man ( James 2:26 ). The body then is spoken of as going back to the dust again as being asleep ( Gen. 3:19; Matt. 9:24; John 11:11; 1 Cor. 11:30; 15:6, 18, 20, 51; 1 Thess. 4:13-17 ). The spirit of a righteous man goes to Heaven ( 2 Cor. 5:6-9; Phil. 1:21-23; Heb. 12:23; Rev. 6:9-11 ). The spirit of the wicked man goes to He11 ( Luke 16:19-31; Isa. 14:9-15; Prov. 15:24; Ezek. 26:20; 31:14-18; 32:18-27 ).
Promises that the path of the just shines brighter until the prefect day prove the immortality of the soul ( Prov. 4:18; Dan. 12:2, 3 ). If there is to be a period of extinction of life these and other passages could not be true for there would not be constant glory into eternity.
Jesus said that God was not the God of the dead but of the living "FOR ALL LIVE UNTO HIM" ( Luke 20:38 ). All do not live physically unto Him so it must be that all live in their spirits unto him, as stated in 1 Pet. 3:4; 4:6. Jesus said of Himself, "I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, YET SHALL HE LIVE: and whosoever liveth and believeth in me SHALL NEVER DIE" ( John 11:25, 26 ). This could not mean that they would never die physically for it is appointed unto men once to die and after this the judgment ( Heb. 9:27 ). The above promise of never dying must refer to the life of the soul, thus proving that the soul is immortal. Jesus further taught the immortality of the soul when He stated that the soul cannot be killed by man like the body ( Matt. 10:28). If the soul cannot be killed with the body, then the soul is immortal.
The existence of demons or disembodied spirits proves life after death. The demons are the spirits of the pre-Adamite races or of some persons other than Adam's race, for they are loose and cannot fully manifest themselves except they take possession of the bodies of men or beasts. They are not the souls and spirits of human beings for they are confined either to Heaven or He11 at death. Therefore, since demons exist and continue alive after they leave their own bodies, then it proves that the souls and spirits of human beings can also continue in consciousness after death.
 
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Bible Proof of the Immortality of the Soul and Spirit

Only the body dies and sleeps in the dust until the resurrection. Physical death is the separation of the inner man from the outer man ( James 2:26 ). The body then is spoken of as going back to the dust again as being asleep ( Gen. 3:19; Matt. 9:24; John 11:11; 1 Cor. 11:30; 15:6, 18, 20, 51; 1 Thess. 4:13-17 ). The spirit of a righteous man goes to Heaven ( 2 Cor. 5:6-9; Phil. 1:21-23; Heb. 12:23; Rev. 6:9-11 ). The spirit of the wicked man goes to He11 ( Luke 16:19-31; Isa. 14:9-15; Prov. 15:24; Ezek. 26:20; 31:14-18; 32:18-27 ).
Promises that the path of the just shines brighter until the prefect day prove the immortality of the soul ( Prov. 4:18; Dan. 12:2, 3 ). If there is to be a period of extinction of life these and other passages could not be true for there would not be constant glory into eternity.
Jesus said that God was not the God of the dead but of the living "FOR ALL LIVE UNTO HIM" ( Luke 20:38 ). All do not live physically unto Him so it must be that all live in their spirits unto him, as stated in 1 Pet. 3:4; 4:6. Jesus said of Himself, "I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, YET SHALL HE LIVE: and whosoever liveth and believeth in me SHALL NEVER DIE" ( John 11:25, 26 ). This could not mean that they would never die physically for it is appointed unto men once to die and after this the judgment ( Heb. 9:27 ). The above promise of never dying must refer to the life of the soul, thus proving that the soul is immortal. Jesus further taught the immortality of the soul when He stated that the soul cannot be killed by man like the body ( Matt. 10:28). If the soul cannot be killed with the body, then the soul is immortal.
The existence of demons or disembodied spirits proves life after death. The demons are the spirits of the pre-Adamite races or of some persons other than Adam's race, for they are loose and cannot fully manifest themselves except they take possession of the bodies of men or beasts. They are not the souls and spirits of human beings for they are confined either to Heaven or He11 at death. Therefore, since demons exist and continue alive after they leave their own bodies, then it proves that the souls and spirits of human beings can also continue in consciousness after death.
I thought dead humans needed a spiritual body to exist?
 

Madman

Senior Member
The Saints are in Heaven under the alter.
Those destined for eternal salvation are in purgatory
Those destined for eternal divine punishment are held in the place of the dead.
 

RegularJoe

Senior Member

Madman

Senior Member
I trust Holy Scripture and the 2000+ year old teaching of the Church on this topic.
 
Thread starter #14
Souls are conscious after death, proving their immortality. Many statements that they are continue to live after death are given above. Many concrete examples of souls being conscious after death are given in Scripture as the following are a few.

In Matt. 17:3 we have the case of Moses appearing with Christ, wearing clothes, talking with Christ, and being recognized by the disciples as the one who gave the law. He could not have been in his earthly body at that time or for it had died and had been in corruption for about 1700 years ( Deut. 34). He could not have had a glorified resurrected body at that time, for Christ had not yet become the first-fruits of all who had died (1 Cor. 15:23; Acts 3:26; Col. 1:18 ). Therefore, he had to have his spiritual body.

The story of the rich man and Lazarus proves the consciousness of souls after death. Both were in a state of consciousness but they were in to separate places and states of being ( Luke 16:19-31 ). Some teach this is a parable, but it is not stated to be one and we have just as much right to teach that the statement in Luke 16:18 about marriage and divorce is a parable as to say that Luke 16:19-31 is a parable. There is a particular truth stated in connection with each New Testament parable. If there is no special point stated that a story illustrates, then it is not a parable but a historical record. So in Luke 16:19-31 there is no particular point or points illustrated by this story so it must be a real happening in the lives of two beggars, showing the true condition of life after death by the actual experience of two men from two different stations in life.
One begged for a living during his life but he was righteous enough to be saved in the end of life and go to a place of comfort to await the resurrection of the body. The other begged in the next life because he was ungodly and unmerciful and died in his sins and went to **** or a place of torment to await the resurrection of the body to be judged and cast into the eternal He11. Even if this true happening was used by Jesus as a parable it would still be the actual experiences of two men who lived , died, and went to two different places after death. Jesus did not use lies to illustrate truths as do some men today. However, since there are no points illustrated by this historical record of two experiences of life here and hereafter we should not try to prove the story is a parable.
Jesus said "There was" and if these men did not live and these things did not happen to them, Then He told a lie just like others who speak falsehoods. Since He knew no sin, neither was guile found in His mouth, we have all the right in the world to believe that He was relating the true experiences of two men. This story plainly reveals consciousness after death. The poor beggar was in comfort where there was water and other comforts and the rich beggar was in torments in literal fire. He had a tongue, eyes, speech, compassion, feelings, memory, and other faculties that prove he had a soul ( the feelings ) and his spirit ( that which knows ) in He11. Lazarus also had his own form and other soul and spirit realities that cause him to be recognized by the rich man as the one who was laid at his gate full of sores during his life on Earth.
Nothing is clearer in Scripture than the realities of full consciousness after death, some are in comfort and others in torment. The soul after leaving the body is just as real as the outer man and can wear clothes, feel, think, speak, remember, and act and be seen just as much as it did while in the body.
 

jrickman

Senior Member
I think y'all (and a lot of people, TBH) might be falling into the trap of believing that God is bound by the laws of physics and time like we are. Who is to say that to the dead, the whole plan for man has not already been completed? For all we know they (and those of us saved by Grace) are already worshipping at the feet of the Lord in the future. My Daddy once told me, "The Lord never said everything there IS to know is contained in Scripture. Everything you NEED to know to fulfill God's plan for your salvation is though."
 
Thread starter #16
Christ was conscious the three days his body was in the grave, as proved above. The penitent thief also was conscious and went with Christ into paradise into the heart of the Earth ( Luke 23:43 ). Stephen prayed for Christ to receive his spirit when he died. Christ did not receive the body of Stephen for the disciples buried it ( Acts 7:59; 8:2 ).
The spirits of just men are spoken of as being in Heaven ( Heb. 12:23 ). John saw under the altar in Heaven the souls of the first tribulation martyrs ( Rev. 6:9-11 ). They had been given robes to wear and were fully conscious as is clear in this passage. They were told to rest yet for a little season until the other tribulation saints are killed as they themselves had been, then vengeance would be taken on those who had killed them on Earth.

The nature of souls prove them to be immortal. They are real spiritual bodies, souls and spirits are spiritual parts of men and as such they are not subject to mortal decay as is the body. They are as spiritual as God, angels, and demons and they also just as eternal.

The intermediate state or the places where souls go between death and resurrection prove the immortality of the inner man.
( Also look at thread Post on The Judges, post #28 on it ).
 
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I think y'all (and a lot of people, TBH) might be falling into the trap of believing that God is bound by the laws of physics and time like we are. Who is to say that to the dead, the whole plan for man has not already been completed? For all we know they (and those of us saved by Grace) are already worshipping at the feet of the Lord in the future. My Daddy once told me, "The Lord never said everything there IS to know is contained in Scripture. Everything you NEED to know to fulfill God's plan for your salvation is though."
We had a guy a on here a few years ago that said this could be a possibility. To the dead, they my zoom forward to past the resurrection and already be living in the future in an out of time experience.
Likewise, we could have already been, before we were ever physically born.
 
Thread starter #18
I think y'all (and a lot of people, TBH) might be falling into the trap of believing that God is bound by the laws of physics and time like we are. Who is to say that to the dead, the whole plan for man has not already been completed? For all we know they (and those of us saved by Grace) are already worshipping at the feet of the Lord in the future. My Daddy once told me, "The Lord never said everything there IS to know is contained in Scripture. Everything you NEED to know to fulfill God's plan for your salvation is though."
I would say your Daddy was referring to one of the Scripture on that subject which would be Deut. 29:29 The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.
 
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