Problem

ddd-shooter · Oct 15, 2009

Last year I tried to use an old .54 cal TC sidelock.
I had used it in previous years and shot 100 grains with a PRB. It shot great!
Last year, however, I cleaned it real well, loaded it the same and could not get two shots to hit within 8" of each other.
One shot would hit near bullseye, one would hit about 8" low, but dead on for windage.
Next shot would hit near bullseye, next shot would be 8" low...This happened several times.
I tried going up in loads and down in loads. Same thing.
Tried a maxi-ball. Same thing.
I ended up using another muzzleloader.
This is a very old gun; a family heirloom with lots of shots through it.
Is it just too old? What would you guys think the problem is? How do I fix it?

hawgrider1200 · Oct 15, 2009

is ur powder old?

HandgunHTR · Oct 15, 2009

ddd-shooter said:
Last year I tried to use an old .54 cal TC sidelock.
I had used it in previous years and shot 100 grains with a PRB. It shot great!
Last year, however, I cleaned it real well, loaded it the same and could not get two shots to hit within 8" of each other.
One shot would hit near bullseye, one would hit about 8" low, but dead on for windage.
Next shot would hit near bullseye, next shot would be 8" low...This happened several times.
I tried going up in loads and down in loads. Same thing.
Tried a maxi-ball. Same thing.
I ended up using another muzzleloader.
This is a very old gun; a family heirloom with lots of shots through it.
Is it just too old? What would you guys think the problem is? How do I fix it?

Just exactly how did you clean it?

Muzzleloader barrels (especially older ones) have to be seasoned. Once the are seasoned all it takes to clean them is hot, soapy water. If you used chemical cleaning or got crazy with a bronze brush, you probably removed the seasoning. This can have varying effects on how the gun shoots.
If that is the case, then you need to do some shooting and cleaning with patches and hot, soapy water in order to re-season the barrel. Then shoot your pet load and see what happens.

Also take a look at the sights to see if they are tight.

Darkhorse · Oct 15, 2009

I'd check those sights first.
Next, how were you shooting the rifle? Off a rock solid bench, off a truck hood with a pillow or something, or offhand?
3rd, Sounds like a lot like a flinch developing to me. 100 Gr. 2FG and a 230 grain RB develops a fair amount of recoil due to the solids (smoke, embers) & PRB exiting the barrel. Something like 60% of BP remains some kind of solid after combustion and this weight is added to your projectile.
Now consider the design of the TC Hawken, if that's the one you have. The deep hook butt can bite you pretty good if not held right.
Add a less than perfect hold due to shooting off a truck, low bench, etc. and your shoulder is soon hurting. And sometimes this causes flinching. And it happens to everybody.

ddd-shooter · Oct 15, 2009

Shooting off a bench. Absolutely no flinch involved.
I cleaned it with hot water and a brush-as always. After 10 or more shots, I had the same results. How many would it take to season the barrel? Usually I clean my rifle and shoot about 3 or 4 loads to re-season for the season.
Sights are tight, and loose pyrodex rs is nearly brand new.

frankwright · Oct 15, 2009

Try swabbing down and up one time with a spit patch between every shot and see what that does.

Bernard goldsmith · Oct 15, 2009

I may start a big arguement here!! You can season cast iron but i don't think you can steel. Whats your views?

Flintrock · Oct 16, 2009

This is a very old gun; a family heirloom with lots of shots through it.
Is it just too old? What would you guys think the problem is? How do I fix it?[/QUOTE].
,
,
His gun is seasoned.
It is very odd that your shots are consistanly inconsistant.
That is that they shoot bullseye and then 8 inches low.
,.
If your barrel was dirty or damaged the shots would be all over the place.
and not dead on then low as described.
,
It has to be one of 2 things. sights or flinch
1) your sights are loose ??....check your sights.
2) Your shooting a #11 cap with the pyrodex powder ?
Do you hear the cap "pop" just before the "boom" ?
If so, get some real black powder. You may not call it flinching but you are bracing upon the cap going off causing your right shoulder to raise up and this is causing the front of the barrel to dip.

ddd-shooter · Oct 16, 2009

I need FFG for .54 right?
And can use that for .50 if the gun shoots it well right?

Why is it a .54 needs FFG? Just wondering

fishdog · Oct 16, 2009

Get some good black powder and run a spit patch between shots. He said the sights are tight, an old gun should be seasoned by now. I have tried pyrodex and it gets gummy, I could not even get off six shots in a revolver, the action was too gumed up to work.

fishdog · Oct 16, 2009

ddd,

There are four types of black powder to chose from,Fg, FFg, FFFg & FFFFg.
Fg is very course and would be used in cannons and such. You would never to get it to pack well in something smaller.
FFG is used in rifles from 45 cal. on up, you can use it in smaller rifles if you need to.
FFFg is a little finer grain then FFg, it is used in most small arms, side arms and flash pans on flint locks. Some people like to use it for larger rifles as well, this is fine if you want but you nedd to reduce you load 10 to 20%.
FFFFg is used in flint lock flash pans and not for much else. It is very fine and will flash much quicker then a F or FF.

Bernard goldsmith · Oct 16, 2009

If you use hot water an soap you have lost your seasoning. This is what i've been told!! Now your barrel is complely clean. It's like scrubbing that old iron skillet.

bobman · Oct 16, 2009

Why is it a .54 needs FFG? Just wondering

the more F's in the rating the finer the powder the faster it burns and the greater pressure it makes

a "practical" quantity of finer faster burning FFF powder in a larger bore gun can be dangerous

thats why you will see the volume of FFF reccomended in a

.54 will always be less volume then the reccomended FF load.

ddd-shooter · Oct 16, 2009

I dont use soap, just scalding hot water and a bore brush.

:huh:

Nicodemus · Oct 16, 2009

Have you tried backin` off a little on the powder charge? A smaller grain charge might do better.

ddd-shooter · Oct 16, 2009

Well, I did, but I was using Pyrodex.
I think I will try to order some Goex FFG online and start with a 60 grain charge and go from there.

Flintrock · Oct 20, 2009

ddd-shooter said:
I need FFG for .54 right?
And can use that for .50 if the gun shoots it well right?

Why is it a .54 needs FFG? Just wondering

.
Yes..FFG for the 54.
You can use either fffg or ffg in the 50 cal.
.
FFG is needed for the 54 because ther is too much pressure per inch if you use fffg in the 54cal..
.
Some people will shoot fffg in everything but it is not recommended.
.
Just curious.Could you hear the cap pop just before the boom with the pyrodex ?

ddd-shooter · Oct 22, 2009

Flintrock said:
.
Yes..FFG for the 54.
You can use either fffg or ffg in the 50 cal.
.
FFG is needed for the 54 because ther is too much pressure per inch if you use fffg in the 54cal..
.
Some people will shoot fffg in everything but it is not recommended.
.
Just curious.Could you hear the cap pop just before the boom with the pyrodex ?

No. As smooth a fire as I ever had with the old black powder set up. Very clean shot.
Thanks for the info...

Cknerr · Oct 23, 2009

My 50 T/C Hawkins prefers FFF powder over FF oddly enough. I have had trouble with build up in the hole under the nipple. Most of the older Hawkins have a clean out screw in the side. See if yours is partially obstructed. If the hole is partially plugged, it can "hang" for a just a moment and throw your shot off. The shot blows it out enough for the next shot to behave as it should. That shot plugs it a little.....cycle repeats. Have seen this before in a few guns. Rare but happens.

Normal, even thorough cleaning doesn't get the fire hole cleared all the time. You have to go after it specifically.

Good luck,
Chris

quigleysharps4570 · Oct 23, 2009

Flintrock said:
.
Some people will shoot fffg in everything but it is not recommended.

The Lyman Blackpowder Handbook shows 3f Goex with the patched roundball for the .54 caliber.

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