Jesus' Farewell Discourse

Artfuldodger · Feb 17, 2013

In the New Testament, Chapters 14-17 of the Gospel of John are known as the Farewell Discourse given by Jesus to eleven of his disciples immediately after the conclusion of the Last Supper in Jerusalem, the night before his crucifixion.

He lets them know they will have a special guidance from the Holy Spirit and to Love one another. The New Commandment: "love one another as I have loved you" is presented to them.

We know from other books and chapters that every Christian receives guidance from the Holy Spirit and are required to love others.

The question is: does the Farewell Discourse pertain directly to us or was it just for the disciples?

Artfuldodger · Feb 17, 2013

How to Interpret the Bible

by Matt Slick

The Bible is God’s Word. But some of the interpretations derived from it are not. There are many cults and Christian groups that use the Bible, claiming their interpretations are correct. Too often, however, the interpretations not only differ dramatically but are clearly contradictory. This does not mean that the Bible is a confusing document. Rather, the problem lies in those who interpret and the methods they use.

We need, as best as can be had, the guidance of the Holy Spirit in interpreting God’s Word.

Because we are sinners, we are incapable of interpreting God’s word perfectly all of the time. The body, mind, will, and emotions are affected by sin and make 100% interpretive accuracy impossible. This does not mean that accurate understanding of God’s Word is impossible. But it does mean that we need to approach His word with care, humility, and reason. Additionally, we need, as best as can be had, the guidance of the Holy Spirit in interpreting God’s Word. After all, the Bible is inspired by God and is addressed to His people. The Holy Spirit helps us to understand what God’s word means and how to apply it.

http://carm.org/how-interpret-bible

hobbs27 · Feb 17, 2013

Artfuldodger said:
How to Interpret the Bible

by Matt Slick

The Bible is God’s Word. But some of the interpretations derived from it are not. There are many cults and Christian groups that use the Bible, claiming their interpretations are correct. Too often, however, the interpretations not only differ dramatically but are clearly contradictory. This does not mean that the Bible is a confusing document. Rather, the problem lies in those who interpret and the methods they use.

We need, as best as can be had, the guidance of the Holy Spirit in interpreting God’s Word.

Because we are sinners, we are incapable of interpreting God’s word perfectly all of the time. The body, mind, will, and emotions are affected by sin and make 100% interpretive accuracy impossible. This does not mean that accurate understanding of God’s Word is impossible. But it does mean that we need to approach His word with care, humility, and reason. Additionally, we need, as best as can be had, the guidance of the Holy Spirit in interpreting God’s Word. After all, the Bible is inspired by God and is addressed to His people. The Holy Spirit helps us to understand what God’s word means and how to apply it.

http://carm.org/how-interpret-bible

Its a fascinating thing, The relationship man has with The Word of God, Scripture,The Holy Bible...We take it to be The Truth and the end all of all arguments, we even use our own interpretation of it to argue with God himself.
How many of us would follow the voice of God when it contradicts our understanding of The Word of God?

Do we show the faith of Abraham, or the decietfulness of Satan himself when he argured the Scripture with Jesus during the temptation?Jobs misreable comforters used scripture against him,the scribes and pharisee misused the scriptures.

We are warned at the end of The Revelation of Jesus Christ to not add or change a word in that book....yet we do.It's not just cults that do it, but men that want to be seen as closer to God or desire to be looked upon as greater than others...just like the scribes and pharisee, mans nature has not changed, Thank God he sent us a Savior!

hobbs27 · Feb 17, 2013

Artfuldodger said:
In the New Testament, Chapters 14-17 of the Gospel of John are known as the Farewell Discourse given by Jesus to eleven of his disciples immediately after the conclusion of the Last Supper in Jerusalem, the night before his crucifixion.

He lets them know they will have a special guidance from the Holy Spirit and to Love one another. The New Commandment: "love one another as I have loved you" is presented to them.

We know from other books and chapters that every Christian receives guidance from the Holy Spirit and are required to love others.

The question is: does the Farewell Discourse pertain directly to us or was it just for the disciples?

It was to his Disciples.He had been telling them all alone but they did not understand, even when He prayed in the garden, they didn't understand what was about to take place.

barryl · Feb 18, 2013

Artfuldodger said:
In the New Testament, Chapters 14-17 of the Gospel of John are known as the Farewell Discourse given by Jesus to eleven of his disciples immediately after the conclusion of the Last Supper in Jerusalem, the night before his crucifixion.

He lets them know they will have a special guidance from the Holy Spirit and to Love one another. The New Commandment: "love one another as I have loved you" is presented to them.

We know from other books and chapters that every Christian receives guidance from the Holy Spirit and are required to love others.

The question is: does the Farewell Discourse pertain directly to us or was it just for the disciples?

John 14:26 If you will notice, But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father "will send in my name," . . . etc. I think you can safely say it was written for you{us}

Ronnie T · Feb 18, 2013

In this case, Jesus was speaking in regard to those apostles who were with Him. The same apostles who would be given the task of spreading and establishing the physical church.
Most of Jesus' words there were not for me. His apostles were different from me. His apostles were given a task that I have not been given.

Read chapter 17. The entire chapter is a prayer. Two verses of that prayer pertain to me...... Most of the rest of it pertain to Jesus' very close connection to those apostles.
The primary purpose of the prayer is Jesus' desire for the glorification of His father.
Then, the prayer provides me a glimpse of the very close relationship Jesus had with those 11 apostles. They had become a gift to Him. That prayer leaves no doubt..... Jesus felt a very strong connection with those men, and He had their future on His mind. It is an amazing look into Jesus' love for them.

I want to have that same relationship with Him today.

Ronnie T · Feb 18, 2013

John 14........ Jesus enlightening His apostles of their future and how the Spirit of God would provide the material of their teachings.

in the following verses, the "you" and "us" do not apply to me, but to the apostles.

25 “These things I have spoken to you while abiding with you. 26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you. 27 Peace I leave with you; My peace I give to you; not as the world gives do I give to you. Do not let your heart be troubled, nor let it be fearful. 28 You heard that I said to you, ‘I go away, and I will come to you.’ If you loved Me, you would have rejoiced because I go to the Father, for the Father is greater than I. 29 Now I have told you before it happens, so that when it happens, you may believe. 30 I will not speak much more with you, for the ruler of the world is coming, and he has nothing in Me; 31 but so that the world may know that I love the Father, I do exactly as the Father commanded Me. Get up, let us go from here.

gemcgrew · Feb 18, 2013

barryl said:
John 14:26 If you will notice, But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father "will send in my name," . . . etc. I think you can safely say it was written for you{us}

I agree. 1 John 2:20,27 are good reference.

Ronnie T · Feb 18, 2013

gemcgrew said:
I agree. 1 John 2:20,27 are good reference.

Good reference, but in John 14 Jesus is still talking and dealing with the coming needs of His apostles.
Jesus is not addressing you and I in most of chap 14.

Good information to know. But not speaking to us.
.

barryl · Feb 18, 2013

barryl said:
John 14:26 If you will notice, But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father "will send in my name," . . . etc. I think you can safely say it was written for you{us}

Be careful, "Big Brother" Ronnie T. is watching. You get a "Come on Man." SPIRITUAL APPLICATION :huh:

gemcgrew · Feb 18, 2013

Ronnie T said:
Good reference, but in John 14 Jesus is still talking and dealing with the coming needs of His apostles.
Jesus is not addressing you and I in most of chap 14.

Good information to know. But not speaking to us.
.

I take it that you do not believe the Holy Spirit indwells every believer and comforts, instructs and guides them by showing Christ and the things of Christ.

Ronnie T · Feb 18, 2013

gemcgrew said:
I take it that you do not believe the Holy Spirit indwells every believer and comforts, instructs and guides them by showing Christ and the things of Christ.

That's not the point.
My point is that Jesus' instructions in John 14 belong to the apostles, and not to you and I. It is proof that the apostles were inspired as they taught and recorded the Gospel. Later on, Jesus and the apostles deal with the subject of the Holy Spirit for you and I, but John 14 by and large belong to Jesus and His apostles.

As I've already posted, these following words were directed to Jesus' apostles. These words do not apply to you and I at all, not as written in this chapter.
.................................. 26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you. 27 Peace I leave with you; My peace I give to you; not as the world gives do I give to you. Do not let your heart be troubled, nor let it be fearful. 28 You heard that I said to you, ‘I go away, and I will come to you.’ If you loved Me, you would have rejoiced because I go to the Father, for the Father is greater than I. 29 Now I have told you before it happens, so that when it happens, you may believe. 30 I will not speak much more with you, for the ruler of the world is coming,...."

The above words are actually a part of the commissioning of the apostles.

gemcgrew · Feb 18, 2013

Ronnie T said:
That's not the point.
My point is that Jesus' instructions in John 14 belong to the apostles, and not to you and I. It is proof that the apostles were inspired as they taught and recorded the Gospel. Later on, Jesus and the apostles deal with the subject of the Holy Spirit for you and I, but John 14 by and large belong to Jesus and His apostles.

As I've already posted, these following words were directed to Jesus' apostles. These words do not apply to you and I at all, not as written in this chapter.
.................................. 26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you. 27 Peace I leave with you; My peace I give to you; not as the world gives do I give to you. Do not let your heart be troubled, nor let it be fearful. 28 You heard that I said to you, ‘I go away, and I will come to you.’ If you loved Me, you would have rejoiced because I go to the Father, for the Father is greater than I. 29 Now I have told you before it happens, so that when it happens, you may believe. 30 I will not speak much more with you, for the ruler of the world is coming,...."

The above words are actually a part of the commissioning of the apostles.

I understand your reasoning but I see nothing there that does not apply to me.

gemcgrew · Feb 18, 2013

Ronnie, do you believe the Holy Spirit indwells every believer and comforts, instructs and guides them by showing Christ and the things of Christ?

Artfuldodger · Feb 18, 2013

1 Corinthians 3:16 Don't you know that you yourselves are God's temple and that God's Spirit lives in you?
Ezekiel 36:27 And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws.
Romans 8:9 You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.

While there are verses that pertain directly to us, there are some that don't. They could be very similar in nature and contain the same message.
I like to use the analogy of people quoting verses against homosexuality. Instead of quoting Old Testament verses, quote New Testament verses.

Ronnie T · Feb 18, 2013

Ronnie T said:
That's not the point.
My point is that Jesus' instructions in John 14 belong to the apostles, and not to you and I. It is proof that the apostles were inspired as they taught and recorded the Gospel. Later on, Jesus and the apostles deal with the subject of the Holy Spirit for you and I, but John 14 by and large belong to Jesus and His apostles.

As I've already posted, these following words were directed to Jesus' apostles. These words do not apply to you and I at all, not as written in this chapter.
.................................. 26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you. 27 Peace I leave with you; My peace I give to you; not as the world gives do I give to you. Do not let your heart be troubled, nor let it be fearful. 28 You heard that I said to you, ‘I go away, and I will come to you.’ If you loved Me, you would have rejoiced because I go to the Father, for the Father is greater than I. 29 Now I have told you before it happens, so that when it happens, you may believe. 30 I will not speak much more with you, for the ruler of the world is coming,...."

The above words are actually a part of the commissioning of the apostles.

gemcgrew said:
I understand your reasoning but I see nothing there that does not apply to me.

Well, I see things there that don't apply to you or me.
There are some great teaching for us concerning the HS in our lives, but not in this chapter.

In this chapter, the apostles are being enlightened concerning the Holy Spirits involvement in the work of the apostles. The establishment of salvation in Christ. All the teachings that we now have recorded.
Those teachings came from the Holy Spirit.
.

Ronnie T · Feb 18, 2013

gemcgrew said:
Ronnie, do you believe the Holy Spirit indwells every believer and comforts, instructs and guides them by showing Christ and the things of Christ?

The Bible makes it clear that each person who is in Christ has received the Holy Spirit.
Yes sir I believe it.

gemcgrew · Feb 19, 2013

Artfuldodger said:
I like to use the analogy of people quoting verses against homosexuality. Instead of quoting Old Testament verses, quote New Testament verses.

Your analogy is terrible. Art, I do not understand your fixation on this subject. It is clear to me that homosexuals and those who support or condone them are non-Christians and are to be treated as such.

"For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet." (Romans 1:26,27)

"Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them." (Romans 1:32)

centerpin fan · Feb 19, 2013

Artfuldodger said:
I like to use the analogy of people quoting verses against homosexuality. Instead of quoting Old Testament verses, quote New Testament verses.

Not to derail the topic, but it's usually the "gay is OK" crowd who brings up the OT verses.

formula1 · Feb 19, 2013

Re:

The entire canon of scripture, including the farewell discourse in John 14-17, is for all of Christs' disciples. So if you are in Christ, you are His disciple and the words of John 14-17 apply to you as well, as does the rest of scripture. Some sayings can be difficult though, and sometimes we are just not spiritually ready for them. And that is perfectly OK. God will always give you what you need to be what He wants!

I just read this section again. I started to write examples in detail of my own experiences where these verses have proven out they are meant for me, but I will refrain for now. How one can honestly look at these verses and NOT see them active in their life as a believer, if they have been a believer any reasonable amount of time, is beyond my comprehension! My suspicion is an effort to explain away scripture they are uncomfortable with or that doesn't fit their doctrinal viewpoint. If that is where you are then OK, I accept that. But there is so much more for those who are willing! The only danger I see is if our viewpoint is taking away the blessings of God for others in our care (just asking). Would God want us to do that?

God Bless!

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