Women in Islam & Judaeo-Christian religions

Artfuldodger · Nov 1, 2013

Interesting from a sociological study is the difference our Gods place on women in our religion. Islam, Judaism, & Christianity all have patriarchal doctrines.

1. The Bible Convicts Women as the original Sinners, (ie. Eve picking from the forbidden tree){Genesis 2:4-3:24}. The Koran Clarifies it was Adam Not Eve {Qur'an 7:19-25}
2. The Bible says "The Birth of a Daughter is a loss" {Ecclesiasticus 22:3}. The Qur'an says both are an Equal Blessing { Qur'an 42:49}
3. The Bible Forbids Women from Speaking in church {I Corinthians 14:34-35}. The Qur'an says Women Can argue with the Prophet {58:1}
4. In the Bible, divorced Women are Labeled as an Adulteress, while men are not {Matthew 5:31-32}. The Koran does Not have Biblical double standards { Qur'an 30:21}
5. In The Bible, Widows and Sisters do Not Inherit Any Property or Wealth, Only men do{Numbers 27:1-11}The Koran Abolished this male greediness { Qur'an 4:22} and God Protects All.
6. The Bible Allows Multiple Wives{I Kings 11:3} In The Koran, God limits the number to 4 only under certain situations (with the Wife's permission)and Prefers you Marry Only One Wife{ Qur'an 4:3} The Koran gives the Woman the Right to Choose who to Marry.
7. "If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay the girl's father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the girl, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives" {Deuteronomy 22:28-30}
One must ask a simple question here, who is really punished, the man who raped the woman or the woman who was raped? According to the Bible, you have to spend the Rest of Your Life with the man who Raped You.
The Prophet Muhammad Says {Volume 9, Book 86, Number 101} Narrated by Aisha:" It is essential to have the consent of a virgin (for the marriage)".
Would the Christian men Reading this prefer the Women they know to Be Christian or Muslim?
8. The Bible also asks Women to wear veils as in Islam {I Corinthians 11:3-10}, this lowers the chance of rape, (God Forbid), see statistic link below.
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_ra...
9. Women were given rights to Vote less than a 100 years ago in the (US), while the Quran (42:38) gave
Women Voting rights almost 1,500 years ago.
10. Islam has unconfined Women and has given them the human right to reach for the sky. There have been Muslim Women Presidents through out the centuries, but to this date, the oppressive mentality of the men in the Western U.S.A. has stopped any Women from becoming Presidents in predominately Christian countries,while the Muslim countries have voted for and elected Female Presidents.
Here is a list of previous Female Muslim leaders:
Khadija bint Khuwaylid
Aishah bint Abu Bakr
Fatimah bint Muhammad
Barakah
Ramlah bint Abu Sufyan
Rumaysa bint Milhan
Umm Salamah
Asma bint Abu Bakr
Zaynab al-Ghazali
Maryum Jameelah

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110504094422AAJ8ZCU

Artfuldodger · Nov 1, 2013

comments of the famous Egyptian feminist Dr. Nawal Saadawi. Her "politically incorrect" statements included : "the most restrictive elements towards women can be found first in Judaism in the Old Testament then in Christianity and then in the Quran"; "all religions are patriarchal because they stem from patriarchal societies"; and "veiling of women is not a specifically Islamic practice but an ancient cultural heritage with analogies in sister religions". The participants could not bear sitting around while their faiths were being equated with Islam. Thus, Dr. Saadawi received a barrage of criticism. "Dr. Saadawi's comments are unacceptable. Her answers reveal a lack of understanding about other people's faiths," declared Bernice Dubois of the World Movement of Mothers. "I must protest" said panellist Alice Shalvi of Israel women's network, "there is no conception of the veil in Judaism." The article attributed these furious protests to the strong tendency in the West to scapegoat Islam for practices that are just as much a part of the West's own cultural heritage. "Christian and Jewish feminists were not going to sit around being discussed in the same category as those wicked Muslims," wrote Gwynne Dyer.

http://www.twf.org/Library/WomenICJ.html

Artfuldodger · Nov 1, 2013

It appears that men are the weaker sex in terms of sexuality. It was easier for God to restrict women's sexuality than to control ours.
Did God make women too beautiful, alluring, & intriguing?
It's almost like women must be modest so that we don't lust. If we do it's the women's fault.

Artfuldodger · Nov 1, 2013

There are websites dedicated to modest women's wear for Christian women and Apostolic women. This just shows that our society isn't that different from Islamic culture in that regard. We've just moved away from that way of thinking a little faster than them but the roots of Christian women dressing modestly is part of the history of Christianity.
My own mother wasn't allowed to wear pants or shorts. Sunbathing in provocative swimwear was prohibited. This was just for women. Men could go shirtless. I reckon women are better at controlling their urges.
I've often wondered why the Apostolic & Mennonite women dress differently than most women in American society but the men in those faiths don't.

centerpin fan · Nov 3, 2013

Artfuldodger said:
Interesting from a sociological study is the difference our Gods place on women in our religion. Islam, Judaism, & Christianity all have patriarchal doctrines.

1. The Bible Convicts Women as the original Sinners, (ie. Eve picking from the forbidden tree){Genesis 2:4-3:24}. The Koran Clarifies it was Adam Not Eve {Qur'an 7:19-25}
2. The Bible says "The Birth of a Daughter is a loss" {Ecclesiasticus 22:3}. The Qur'an says both are an Equal Blessing { Qur'an 42:49}
3. The Bible Forbids Women from Speaking in church {I Corinthians 14:34-35}. The Qur'an says Women Can argue with the Prophet {58:1}
4. In the Bible, divorced Women are Labeled as an Adulteress, while men are not {Matthew 5:31-32}. The Koran does Not have Biblical double standards { Qur'an 30:21}
5. In The Bible, Widows and Sisters do Not Inherit Any Property or Wealth, Only men do{Numbers 27:1-11}The Koran Abolished this male greediness { Qur'an 4:22} and God Protects All.
6. The Bible Allows Multiple Wives{I Kings 11:3} In The Koran, God limits the number to 4 only under certain situations (with the Wife's permission)and Prefers you Marry Only One Wife{ Qur'an 4:3} The Koran gives the Woman the Right to Choose who to Marry.
7. "If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay the girl's father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the girl, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives" {Deuteronomy 22:28-30}
One must ask a simple question here, who is really punished, the man who raped the woman or the woman who was raped? According to the Bible, you have to spend the Rest of Your Life with the man who Raped You.
The Prophet Muhammad Says {Volume 9, Book 86, Number 101} Narrated by Aisha:" It is essential to have the consent of a virgin (for the marriage)".
Would the Christian men Reading this prefer the Women they know to Be Christian or Muslim?
8. The Bible also asks Women to wear veils as in Islam {I Corinthians 11:3-10}, this lowers the chance of rape, (God Forbid), see statistic link below.
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_ra...
9. Women were given rights to Vote less than a 100 years ago in the (US), while the Quran (42:38) gave
Women Voting rights almost 1,500 years ago.
10. Islam has unconfined Women and has given them the human right to reach for the sky. There have been Muslim Women Presidents through out the centuries, but to this date, the oppressive mentality of the men in the Western U.S.A. has stopped any Women from becoming Presidents in predominately Christian countries,while the Muslim countries have voted for and elected Female Presidents.
Here is a list of previous Female Muslim leaders:
Khadija bint Khuwaylid
Aishah bint Abu Bakr
Fatimah bint Muhammad
Barakah
Ramlah bint Abu Sufyan
Rumaysa bint Milhan
Umm Salamah
Asma bint Abu Bakr
Zaynab al-Ghazali
Maryum Jameelah

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110504094422AAJ8ZCU

Yeah, if you can get past the female genital mutilation, women really have it made in Islam.

centerpin fan · Nov 3, 2013

Artfuldodger said:
9. Women were given rights to Vote less than a 100 years ago in the (US), while the Quran (42:38) gave
Women Voting rights almost 1,500 years ago.

I guess someone forgot to tell the Kuwaitis:

"Kuwaiti women gained the right to vote and stand for political office in 2005 after years of campaigning and a push by senior ruling family members."

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013...ing-kuwait-idUSBRE9A208O20131103?feedType=RSS

Artfuldodger said:
10. Islam has unconfined Women and has given them the human right to reach for the sky.

I guess someone forgot to tell the Saudis, too. Women there:

" ... are not allowed to travel abroad, open a bank account or work without permission from a male relative."

Who knew that the Religion of Peace was also the Religion of Women?

swampstalker24 · Nov 3, 2013

Ooch! This is going to really burn the butts of some the the born again bible thumpers in here!

centerpin fan · Nov 3, 2013

Artfuldodger said:
comments of the famous Egyptian feminist Dr. Nawal Saadawi. Her "politically incorrect" statements included : "the most restrictive elements towards women can be found first in Judaism in the Old Testament then in Christianity and then in the Quran"; "all religions are patriarchal because they stem from patriarchal societies"; and "veiling of women is not a specifically Islamic practice but an ancient cultural heritage with analogies in sister religions". The participants could not bear sitting around while their faiths were being equated with Islam. Thus, Dr. Saadawi received a barrage of criticism. "Dr. Saadawi's comments are unacceptable. Her answers reveal a lack of understanding about other people's faiths," declared Bernice Dubois of the World Movement of Mothers. "I must protest" said panellist Alice Shalvi of Israel women's network, "there is no conception of the veil in Judaism." The article attributed these furious protests to the strong tendency in the West to scapegoat Islam for practices that are just as much a part of the West's own cultural heritage. "Christian and Jewish feminists were not going to sit around being discussed in the same category as those wicked Muslims," wrote Gwynne Dyer.

http://www.twf.org/Library/WomenICJ.html

It's hard to pick the funniest line out if this article, but I'm gonna go with this one:

It is bewildering why the religion that had revolutionized the status of women is being singled out and denigrated as so repressive of women.

Artfuldodger · Nov 3, 2013

Timeline in Muslim countries allowing women to vote;

1918 - Azerbaijan Democratic Republic
1920 - Albania[1]
1921 - Azerbaijan[1]
1924 - Tajikistan,[1] Kazakhstan[1]
1927 - Turkmenistan[1]
1930 - Turkey[1]
1932 - Maldives[1]
1938 - Uzbekistan[1]
1945 - Bosnia, Indonesia,[1] Senegal[1]
1946 - British Palestine[1]
1947-(Since Independence) - Pakistan[1]
1948 - Niger[1]
1949-1953 - Syria[1]
1952 - Lebanon[1] (An educational requirement was dropped in 1957).[2]
1956 - Comoros,[1] Egypt,[1] Mali,[1] Mauritania,[1] Somalia[1]
1957 - Malaysia[1][3]
1959 - Tunisia[4]
1960 - Gambia[1]
1961 - Sierra Leone[1]
1962 - Algeria[1][3]
1963 - Iran,[1][3] Morocco[1][3]
1964 - Libya,[3] Sudan[1]
1965 - Afghanistan[1][5]
1970 - Yemen[1]
1972 - Bangladesh[1][3]
1973 - Bahrain[4]
1974 - Jordan[1][3]
1978 - Nigeria
1980 - Iraq[4]
1985[6] - Kuwait (female suffrage later removed, re-granted in 2005)
1993[3]-1994[1] - Kazakhstan
1994 - Oman[7]
1999 - Qatar[8]
2006 - United Arab Emirates[9]
2015 - Saudi Arabia[10][11]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_first_women's_suffrage_in_majority-Muslim_countries

Artfuldodger · Nov 3, 2013

I wasn't trying to show the difference between women's rights in the three religions as much as the difference between women & men.
In the three religions I mentioned there are differences between men and women's rights, functions, & requirements.
I'm not saying it's wrong, just interesting. Especially since it is a connecting factor of many religions. If it was just a Christian element it would be more understandable.
On a side note the conditions of women in Arabia before Islam were supposedly worse. Genital mutilation isn't a Muslim practice although some do perform this practice.
FGM is performed by Muslims, Coptic Christians, and animists in 28 countries in Africa, a few in the Middle East, as well as some immigrant communities in North America, Europe and Australia. According to the WHO, nearly half of FGM cases occur in Egypt and Ethiopia.
Coptic Christians live in Egypt.

centerpin fan · Nov 4, 2013

Artfuldodger said:
Coptic Christians live in Egypt.

... and are persecuted endlessly by the Muslim majority:

Not only are the churches, monasteries, and institutions of Egypt's Christians under attack by the Muslim Brotherhood and its supporters-nearly 100 now have been torched, destroyed, ransacked, etc.-but Christians themselves are under attack all throughout Egypt, with practically zero coverage in Western media.

http://www.christianpost.com/news/coptic-christians-killed-for-ransom-in-egypt-103730/

ambush80 · Nov 4, 2013

Centerpin,

Do you have any Muslims in your family? Do you have any good friends that are Muslims? I have some idiot Fundamentalist Christians in my family. Should I judge all Christians by their beliefs?

Artfuldodger · Nov 4, 2013

Why do Christians, Muslims, and Jews all have differences between men and women's rights, functions, & requirements? Same God, different beliefs later on? Do other world religions other than from the God of Abraham have differences between men & women? Are there any religions where women have the same rights or better rights than men?

Artfuldodger · Nov 4, 2013

Does it appear that many of the dress code requirements for women and modesty in general for women are because men can't control their sexual urges as well as women can? I don't see much of a difference between how I dress and my male Pentecostal coworkers. I do see a big difference between how my wife dresses compared to the Pentecostal wives. Hair, clothing, & jewelry come to mind. I call on them because they tend to be more traditional or Biblical in their dress code.
The history of how women dressed in the Middle East before, during, and after Jesus was among us as a human, could be interesting.

Artfuldodger · Nov 4, 2013

I was just comparing my childhood with my parents concerning dress.
Girls didn't wear pants to school when I was in Elementary & Jr High.
My Mom was never allowed to wear pants or shorts growing up.
In her day men had short hair and women had long hair. When I was in High School in the seventies boys had long hair and girls had short skirts. Even Christian girls wore very short skirt way above their knees. It would be frowned upon today.
I guess some of this is related to Religion and some is related to Society. Sometimes they overlap to various religions.
I do hope it is from God and not man.

ambush80 · Nov 5, 2013

Artfuldodger,

I'm excited for you as you go deeper down the rabbit hole. I hope you find answers that satisfy you and that ring of truth.

centerpin fan · Nov 5, 2013

Do you have any Muslims in your family? No.

Do you have any good friends that are Muslims? No.

I have some idiot Fundamentalist Christians in my family. Should I judge all Christians by their beliefs? No.

Mako22 · Nov 6, 2013

"1. The Bible Convicts Women as the original Sinners"

The above statement is not true but is a classic example of the complete biblical ignorance that is rampant on this site.

HawgJawl · Nov 6, 2013

You could add the kidnapping of young virgin girls that was ordered by God in Numbers 31:15-18 and Judges 21:10.

SemperFiDawg · Nov 21, 2013

This thread makes a mockery of the truth. Unbelievable. Simply unbelievable.

facepalm:

Women in Islam & Judaeo-Christian religions

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