Good News Christians!

[WaltL1]

I don't mind it too, too much. It's good to see people discussing things without getting all bent out of shape. It's just funny to me how they have found a place here amongst the heathens to be able to have such a discussion. It makes me wonder what it is about upstairs that doesn't allow civil discussion.



Don't get me wrong, I like that you guys are trying to sort out your beliefs in a rational, contemplative way. I would encourage you to start a thread, down here of course, where you rationally discuss with fellow believers some of the difficult issues you have with your faith.

In the future, throwing competing Bible verses at each other isn't really Apologistic argument.

It's just funny to me how they have found a place here amongst the heathens to be able to have such a discussion.

Im pretty sure you know why that is.

In the future, throwing competing Bible verses at each other isn't really Apologistic argument.

That's true. And as much as I hate the regurgitation of scripture I think having an atmosphere of open debate here is more important even if scripture is the method of doing it.
AS LONG AS ITS THE METHOD OF BOTH PARTIES.

 

[ambush80]

Im pretty sure you know why that is.

That's true. And as much as I hate the regurgitation of scripture I think having an atmosphere of open debate here is more important even if scripture is the method of doing it.
AS LONG AS ITS THE METHOD OF BOTH PARTIES.

I don't think I do. Why do you think it is?

 

[WaltL1]

I don't think I do. Why do you think it is?

I was thinking along the lines of your aversion to the whole "don't think about it, don't question" atmosphere that sometimes rears its head upstairs.
Where as down here its just the opposite.

 

[ambush80]

I was thinking along the lines of your aversion to the whole "don't think about it, don't question" atmosphere that sometimes rears its head upstairs.
Where as down here its just the opposite.

I thought that Art and Welder and Gem were talking about predestination, a topic that gets threads shut down in "The Land of Canaan" (upstairs).

 

[Artfuldodger]

I thought that Art and Welder and Gem were talking about predestination, a topic that gets threads shut down in "The Land of Canaan" (upstairs).

I don't recall discussing predestination as being off limits upstairs. As a major part of Christianity it would take about half the threads out.

The title of this thread is 'Good News Christians."
It's almost an invitation for Christians to respond.
Most Christians believe God predestined them to be born after this same God created the first man. They believe that God foretold or caused his creation and that God foretold or caused many things to happen from the beginning of time until the end of time.
Christians also like to use scriptures to back this up just as Atheist use secular literature.

Now getting back to the OP, many Christians have a hard time with God using science. They see a conflict describing Biblical events with science. Some even think science is from Satan. Invented by him to confuse us.
For someone to use science to look for God or even to describe a rainbow is wrong in many Christians eyes.

This OP is seeking the Christian's viewpoint even if not intentional. The Christian's viewpoint uses scripture to respond. It's natural. It's actually one of the first places we are to look.

 

[welderguy]

^^^I agree with this^^^
I was thinking about saying the same exact thing but Art worded it far better than I could have.

 

[gemcgrew]

I thought that Art and Welder and Gem were talking about predestination, a topic that gets threads shut down in "The Land of Canaan" (upstairs).

I haven't touched on it at all in this thread. I am pretty sure that I would disagree with both of them though.

 

[WaltL1]

I don't recall discussing predestination as being off limits upstairs. As a major part of Christianity it would take about half the threads out.

The title of this thread is 'Good News Christians."
It's almost an invitation for Christians to respond.
Most Christians believe God predestined them to be born after this same God created the first man. They believe that God foretold or caused his creation and that God foretold or caused many things to happen from the beginning of time until the end of time.
Christians also like to use scriptures to back this up just as Atheist use secular literature.

Now getting back to the OP, many Christians have a hard time with God using science. They see a conflict describing Biblical events with science. Some even think science is from Satan. Invented by him to confuse us.
For someone to use science to look for God or even to describe a rainbow is wrong in many Christians eyes.

This OP is seeking the Christian's viewpoint even if not intentional. The Christian's viewpoint uses scripture to respond. It's natural. It's actually one of the first places we are to look.

The title of this thread is 'Good News Christians."It's almost an invitation for Christians to respond.

That's exactly what it was. I was looking for your (Christians) point of view.
And to create discussion of course.

 

[drippin' rock]

All I see here is ego.

 

[WaltL1]

Originally Posted by Artfuldodger
Now getting back to the OP, many Christians have a hard time with God using science. They see a conflict describing Biblical events with science. Some even think science is from Satan. Invented by him to confuse us.

Art, why do you think that is?
I'll be honest, the only reason I can think of is because science doesn't point to God (as of now). But that's not sciences fault.
Is it fear that science will prove something other than there being a God?
Is it because man has no right to even be looking at other possibilities?
Some other reason(s)?

Some even think science is from Satan

Whats interesting to me is that if God is going to be "proven", its science that's going to do it (unless of course God shows up and says hello). I know you guys don't need "proof" to believe but you are human so Im betting "proof" would be really nice to have in your pocket. It sure would shut the mouths of all those who don't believe what you do.

 

[Artfuldodger]

Art, why do you think that is?
I'll be honest, the only reason I can think of is because science doesn't point to God (as of now). But that's not sciences fault.
Is it fear that science will prove something other than there being a God?
Is it because man has no right to even be looking at other possibilities?
Some other reason(s)?

Whats interesting to me is that if God is going to be "proven", its science that's going to do it (unless of course God shows up and says hello). I know you guys don't need "proof" to believe but you are human so Im betting "proof" would be really nice to have in your pocket. It sure would shut the mouths of all those who don't believe what you do.

Why do Christians use science at all? Why do Christians use science to describe the rainbow and birth?
Christians are slow to accept God's mysteries being revealed. Look at how they treated Galileo when he said the earth revolved around the sun.

I guess the reasons could be pride, ignorance, admitting defeat, indoctrination.
It's like trying to get the Republicans and Democrats to agree. One has to sometimes put his pride aside and agree.
Many Christians feel like they would be in bed with the enemy if using science to prove creation or evolution. Especially to try and prove God's existence.
I'm not even sure I approve of that. I don't need that proof. I'm not seeking it.
Look how most Christians look at evolution. They do use science and are OK with mutations and natural selection but just don't use the word evolution.

Christians are stuck on taking the Bible literally. If God says he created Adam out of dust then it can't mean the Great Architect used amino acid dust from the soil and spiritually breathed life into it as a way to create life. The whole world being flooded is another example. The Ark of the Covenant is another example. Don't even think about why it would kill whoever touched it. Did God reach down and kill them or was it a giant battery or radioactive? Either way isn't it still God. If God kills me or strikes me dead with Ebola, isn't the results the same? God using science to kill me or divine intervention. Maybe he uses a little of each. He looks with his own eyes sometimes and at other times uses messengers to check things out.

Some events are OK to explain with science and some events aren't. Which events are OK have changed over time as God reveals which mysteries will be revealed and when.

I figure God knew the intelligence of each generation and revealed what each generation was capable of learning. It wouldn't do any good to tell ancient man he thought with his heart and blood didn't carry all the things they thought it did. So God had man explain it the way other man could understand.

Now Gem and the election crowd don't agree with science because they don't believe man can find God. It's totally 100% impossible for a lost person to find God.
They also believe God causes everything to happen. So in that way of thinking, the Great Architect makes the tree die, makes the car wreck, makes women pregnant, makes the sun come up, makes the sick well, makes the grass grow, makes me do good deeds, makes the well sick, makes my pool turn green, and calls me to the grave on a predetermined day.
It's kinda hard to use science for pretty much anything believing as they do. I don't even understand why they let their kids take science in school.

I would say that God might not reveal himself with science as having proof would take away from having faith. Unless even that is from God too.
Creation, yes
God himself, no
But in due time all will be revealed. This will be a time of great unity. I in you and you in me. God in me and me in God.

 

[gemcgrew]

Now Gem and the election crowd don't agree with science because they don't believe man can find God.

Art, I am not anti-science. I just see the inherent irrationality that is built into its assumptions and method. I thoroughly enjoy science... until it claims too much for itself.

 

[Artfuldodger]

Art, I am not anti-science. I just see the inherent irrationality that is built into its assumptions and method. I thoroughly enjoy science... until it claims too much for itself.

Science can be a tool used to discredit God. I agree if someone says it's not from God because it's from science.

Most Christians aren't anti-science but only to a certain extent. Say someone died of cancer. They understand the scientific concept of why this person died. They also believe God had some control over this scientific event.
I agree that he did. Now why can God use science in death but not in creation?
Why can the birth of a baby be explained as a miraculous event and a scientific event? Didn't God cause the birth using science?

Why do we need the sun? Why do we need water, air, dna, and a digestive system? We were made from dust.
Why does God use science?

Why can't God use science to do everything he does to the physical world? Even if he zapped someone dead with his powers, the person's heart(science) would stop beating. Their physical body will decay(science)

 

[WaltL1]

Art, I am not anti-science. I just see the inherent irrationality that is built into its assumptions and method. I thoroughly enjoy science... until it claims too much for itself.

Does the fact that science also works to prove itself wrong gain any points with you?
What I get from your post is that science is "arrogant".

 

[Israel]

Does the fact that science also works to prove itself wrong gain any points with you?
What I get from your post is that science is "arrogant".

Science doesn't work, scientists do.

 

[660griz]

If a man follows a process, nay, adheres to a procedure, and that process yields consistent results. Could thouest sayeth the procedure worketh?
Yay, I say unto thee, readeth between the lines.

 

[WaltL1]

Science doesn't work, scientists do.

You can do better than that Israel.
I hope.

 

[JB0704]

What I get from your post is that science is "arrogant".

I don't know about science, but scientists do have some arrogance about them......most folks who claim authority on any topic are. The same could also be said for literature professors, preachers, lawyers, etc.

Science itself begins with humility. It's when it assumes answers which are not, cannot be known that it kind-a loses touch with that aspect.

 

[Artfuldodger]

I don't know about science, but scientists do have some arrogance about them......most folks who claim authority on any topic are. The same could also be said for literature professors, preachers, lawyers, etc.

Science itself begins with humility. It's when it assumes answers which are not, cannot be known that it kind-a loses touch with that aspect.

One can always collect data to prove or disprove the end result of the process. I see this in religious discussions. Most aren't willing to find verses that discredit their view, only ones that support it.
It's the same with some scientist. They aren't willing to look at data that discredits their beliefs.
Religion begins with humility.

 

[JB0704]

One can always collect data to prove or disprove the end result of the process. I see this in religious discussions. Most aren't willing to find verses that discredit their view, only ones that support it.
It's the same with some scientist. They aren't willing to look at data that discredits their beliefs.

Yea.....I added preachers to the list. I was raised in a way that convinced me scripture can be found to support darn near any bias if one looks hard enough.