WaltL1
Senior Member
Based on this do you in fact believe Science has discovered the Christian God?
Do you see any flaws in what he claims as proof?
Do you see any flaws in what he claims as proof?
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- Thread starter WaltL1
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gemcgrew
Senior Member
No
Yes. It fails to show that God is the true cause, instead of an infinite number of other possibilities. It commits the fallacy of affirming the consequent.
Also, if science could indeed discover God, the God of the Bible would not exist.
Huntinfool
Senior Member
Not saying I disagree. But could you expound on that a bit for me?
Artfuldodger
Senior Member
They could use that same satellite to take images of the earth and disprove the Christian God's word that the Earth was flat.
They could use Science to explain a rainbow to discredit God's Word.
I don't see where one more explanation of God using science is necessary.
They could use Science to explain a rainbow to discredit God's Word.
I don't see where one more explanation of God using science is necessary.
WaltL1
Senior Member
I agree with you. And this wasn't a trick question. I found several flaws in it and am basically checking myself that Im not viewing it through Agnostic "blinders".
Other things I questioned -
He basically stated as fact that something can be created from nothing. That in itself removes the need of a God to do anything.
He described the attributes of the "laws" and then assigned the name God to them. Those "laws" cant have a son or be a Trinity etc etc.
And worth mentioning is he didn't even hiccup when describing each of the vertical lines being another billion years and there were about a dozen vertical lines. Doesn't exactly line up with what is in the Bible.
I think I agree with that also. Science may discover the beginning or whether there even was a beginning or not etc but Im not sure how science would discover an actual God unless he is sitting up there in some physical form.
JB0704
I Gots Goats
Does the God of the Bible declare the earth is flat?
Not if your asking "how who dun it."
See above comment. Science and God are not incompatible.
Artfuldodger
Senior Member
I agree that Science and God are compatible. I believe this with all my heart. In the Bible men believed and thought with their hearts.
The Bible says the earth has four corners.
Isaiah 40:22 says the earth is a circle. I guess it could be a flat circle or flat square or flat rectangle.
I've always been taught that early man thought it was flat. Christopher Columbus didn't think so.
God reveals mysteries and truths to us at different times in our history. A mystery is just something that hasn't been revealed yet. It has now been revealed that we think with our brains and that the earth is a oblate spheroid.
Circles and ovals are 2-dimensional figures.
One day all of the mysteries of the universe will be revealed by God. God might even uses science to reveal these mysteries as he did about thinking with our brains and how rainbows work.
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WaltL1
Senior Member
Talk about that one a little more if you would JB.
Im not sure I disagree but Im also having a hard time agreeing.
BANDERSNATCH
Senior Member
No doubt science is making things very difficult for atheists. 
Origin of Life folks are getting more and more frustrated as they learn there is no such thing as the fabled "simple cell". Odds of life appearing by chance.....1 in 10 to the 150th power.
Also, the fact that the universe looks to have had a beginning is something that atheists have to deal with. Something has a beginning, it has a cause. It would have been better if the universe looked to have always been here.
Missed you guys..... good to see the AAA is alive and well.
Bandy
Origin of Life folks are getting more and more frustrated as they learn there is no such thing as the fabled "simple cell". Odds of life appearing by chance.....1 in 10 to the 150th power. Also, the fact that the universe looks to have had a beginning is something that atheists have to deal with. Something has a beginning, it has a cause. It would have been better if the universe looked to have always been here.
Missed you guys..... good to see the AAA is alive and well.
Bandy
JB0704
I Gots Goats
It's the same concept I often discuss on here. Scientific discovery is often viewed as a way to explain away the necessity of God. You guys often say science elliminates the gaps that God fills. I personally don't think God exists in the gaps, and I see science as a way of understanding the mechanics of creation. I don't fear science for these reasons. This is just how it's done. My belief in God is on a very basic premise that this (existence) didn't happen on it's own because the natural order of everything is cyclical in nature, from beginning to end.
I look at it similar to my biologist friend (who declined my invite to come on here and share her perspective). The more we learn about existence (scientific discovery), the more amazing creation becomes.
bullethead
Of the hard cast variety
No doubt science is making things very difficult for atheists.
Also, the fact that the universe looks to have had a beginning is something that atheists have to deal with. Something has a beginning, it has a cause. It would have been better if the universe looked to have always been here.
Missed you guys..... good to see the AAA is alive and well.
Bandy
The odds of life appearing by chance... 1 in 10 to the 150th power.
AGREED!
For a ONE TIME TRY!
Now take billions of tries per hour in the right conditions for a couple billion years.
We all know jackpots have big odds but we also know when people hit them it can be on the 1st...50th....millionth try. They are not always on the last try of the odds given.
BANDERSNATCH
Senior Member
lol Bullet, I see you're still making the same logic mistakes. There was no 'trying'....no purpose involved. Life in its extreme complexity would have been pure luck. chemicals had no desire to be anything but chemicals.
You do admit that it was all just incredible against-all-odds luck, right?
You do admit that it was all just incredible against-all-odds luck, right?
WaltL1
Senior Member
Apparently you didnt watch the video.No doubt science is making things very difficult for atheists.
Also, the fact that the universe looks to have had a beginning is something that atheists have to deal with. Something has a beginning, it has a cause. It would have been better if the universe looked to have always been here.
Missed you guys..... good to see the AAA is alive and well.
Bandy
WaltL1
Senior Member
I completely agree.
But to me that makes science and creation compatible.
Obviously you equate creation to God.
But science doesn't.
But yes I can see how you could say they are compatible.
gemcgrew
Senior Member
The Bible says that "God in his wisdom saw to it that the world would never know him through human wisdom".
bullethead
Of the hard cast variety
No actually I am not making any logic mistakes.
You are right that nothing was trying for life. But you overlook that the chemicals and matter that were available on this planet at some point were in the right habitat or conditions. These things were here. They were here for billions of years and at some point conditions were ripe for them to produce something else.
There were large quantities of elements and chemicals and energy available for billions of years.
You have been gone a while so you missed the latest discussions on this subject.
But the case was made that life was not a miracle..it was inevitable.
bullethead
Of the hard cast variety
Evangelizing is a few floors up.
If verses meant anything to you wouldn't cherry pick to suit but follow them all to the T.
If verses meant anything to us we wouldn't have these discussions.
WaltL1
Senior Member
Personally Im hoping you are going to use the brain God gave you at some point in these discussions.
You seem like a good guy but regurgitation of scripture doesn't tell us squat other than instead of thinking you regurgitate scripture.
