We don't attend church?

[M80]

OFten, dismissing a person's quarrels as being so simple is the catalyst that leads them out the door.

Some folks don't like music, or preachin' style, or personalities, or the drapes. These are superficial items that are likely just reasons to go when a person already had their foot out the door.

My issues with the church are institutional, not the dismissal of anything based on the "imperfect people" perspective. I'm sorry, but I can't attend a church that does not have a solid biblical foundation for why it is structured the way it is. I can't attend a church where they make up some non-sense about following a head pastor's vision.

That's why I left..........the reason I never went back is that most folks don't care. They say "well we are here to serve," or "the church is made of imperfect people."

Would they be so dismissive of a church with a pastor who was married to a dude? Just because they enjoyed working the nursery? I can throw all sorts of hypotheticals out that would cause a mass exodus from a local congregation..........but, the things that don't have the direct impact, such as leadership structure, which turn it into a faith based entertainment business instead of a church, are over looked.

Fellas like me are "naysayers," because we believe in things. I'm still idealistic enough to think beliefs are cool, and going along to get along is what will ultimately kill the local church........if it hasn't already.

I've done told you the church im at is the best church in the world. If someone dosnt think that about their church they don't need to be there. The Lord has put me right where he wants me to be and if you would seek The Lord he will put you in the right church also.

Now the bible says in acts that they where in one mind and one accord and The Lord added daily as such be saved. This is my goal as a pastor. The bible also says let us consider one another to provoke unto love and good works. This is what we should be doing and this is what I strive to do.

 

[JB0704]

Are you saying that no where in you area is a church that has a leadership structure that you believe is biblical?

No. I said in a previous post that there are plenty I have yet to visit. But, that's not my point. That was an example I use often, because it is so often overlooked. Seriously, pastors set themselves up as popes these days, and entire congregations go along with it.

I still am going to visit M80's church, and I will also swing by centerpin's church as well. There is another one close by that has a wonderful man as the head pastor.........but, I just don't feel like whatever it is I am doing is finished yet.

I had enough. I went to church the vast majority of my life. I keep turning one thought over and over, and I can't get past it...........if I put all the bad I have experienced due to church in one bucket, and then put all the good in another, the bad is much, much heavier. At some point a person has to step back and recognize whats not working, and that's where I am.

 

[JB0704]

Now the bible says in acts that they where in one mind and one accord and The Lord added daily as such be saved. This is my goal as a pastor. The bible also says let us consider one another to provoke unto love and good works. This is what we should be doing and this is what I strive to do.

And, honestly, that sounds great. I have no doubt you guys got a good thing going. I wish I could express my thoughts better.

FYI, I made my last post before I saw this. I am gonna visit your church. Sorry I didn't make the event, I was out of town doing an anniversary trip with my wife.

 

[M80]

No. I said in a previous post that there are plenty I have yet to visit. But, that's not my point. That was an example I use often, because it is so often overlooked. Seriously, pastors set themselves up as popes these days, and entire congregations go along with it.

I still am going to visit M80's church, and I will also swing by centerpin's church as well. There is another one close by that has a wonderful man as the head pastor.........but, I just don't feel like whatever it is I am doing is finished yet.

I had enough. I went to church the vast majority of my life. I keep turning one thought over and over, and I can't get past it...........if I put all the bad I have experienced due to church in one bucket, and then put all the good in another, the bad is much, much heavier. At some point a person has to step back and recognize whats not working, and that's where I am.

The Lord never said it would be roses and mountain tips all the time. I could have walked away from church in 2004 but you know, The Lord has been just to good to this old worthless country boy. Let's see

1.) a eternal home in heaven
2.) a wonderful wonderful family
3.) a wonderful wife, children and a wonderful home.
4.) he has allowed me to live another day
5.) not one time have I made myself breathe typing this and oh yea my hearts beating because he makes it beat.

The list just keeps going, I couldn't type enough or say enough. It's the least I could do is go to church because he has done so much for me. People look at church the wrong way. I go to worship The Lord and feed spiritually. I could do all this at home and study my bible but worshipping The Lord where true worship is in spirit and in truth is better than anything this world has to offer. I believe I'll just keep going Sunday morning, evening and Wednesday night. I can't get enough of it. Kinda like the family in acts where it says they addicted themselves.

 

[M80]

And, honestly, that sounds great. I have no doubt you guys got a good thing going. I wish I could express my thoughts better.

FYI, I made my last post before I saw this. I am gonna visit your church. Sorry I didn't make the event, I was out of town doing an anniversary trip with my wife.

No problem, I know you'll come one day, I just hope it isn't like my one friend who has been telling me this for 9 years now but I never give up.

 

[NE GA Pappy]

I had enough. I went to church the vast majority of my life. I keep turning one thought over and over, and I can't get past it...........if I put all the bad I have experienced due to church in one bucket, and then put all the good in another, the bad is much, much heavier. At some point a person has to step back and recognize whats not working, and that's where I am.

Yep, pain and hurt can sure be hard, hard things to get over. I can tell you, I have had people in the church really hurt me, and I bet you I have hurt others also. It has been close to 20 years ago now, but I was in a church and there was a situation that just tore my heart out. After I thought I had gotten over that, it happened again in another church 12 years ago. I stayed out of churches for a year or so, and then started back on a sporadic basis. Lord knows that it took me years to get back to where I was even close to where I was at with God 20 years ago. One thing I learned through this was that anger is a cancer that will eat you alive from inside out. The only way to deal with it is to forgive the person that hurt you and forget it.

It is hard to ever trust people again after you have been put through the wringer by them. I don't know that I can ever trust those individuals again, and I certainly would not look forward to being put in that position. All I can do when faced with those situations is to remember I chose to forgive them, and let God handle it for me.

One thing for sure that doesn't help. Isolation. God didn't create us to be loners, in either our physical lives or our spiritual lives. Just as God said it was not good for Adam to be alone and created Eve, it is not good for believers to be isolated island unto themselves.

God bless.

 

[gemcgrew]

A believer is never alone.

 

[centerpin fan]

I've done told you the church im at is the best church in the world.

It only got 67% on Rotten Tomatoes.

 

[gemcgrew]

It only got 67% on Rotten Tomatoes.

 

[Israel]

JB, you are right that the superficial stuff is what a lot of people use as an excuse to leave a church, but there is usually some other under currents that is pushing them out.

What I was trying to say in my post was that surely there is a church that you can agree with most of the doctrine being taught there, and learn to tolerate the minor differences that you might have with them. Are you saying that no where in you area is a church that has a leadership structure that you believe is biblical?
If that is the case, I would sure love to hear you delve into what you believe to be the correct structure for the church.


Israel,

I have found out in the past few years just how dependent I am on God's grace and mercy. As I discover all the more how dependent I am for grace, it becomes easier for me to show grace to others. My pastor has the best definition of grace I believe I have heard... Grace = God's power in me, doing for me, what I can not do for myself.

I am, in whatever part seeing...for me, anyway...it's everything. More often than not of late grace appears in a situation where I not only think I can do something (for myself, even for others)...but also have every right to.

Sometimes grace appears as a very strong hand slapped over my mouth, unbidden, and, even at the time...seemingly very unwelcome. A thing that keeps me from acting according...(what I only can see later as me) to me. (Even at those times when I am sure "the Lord has something to say "about this").

Like a wild a** I much need to be bridled.
What feels so wrong in so many instances...I later come to see was precisely so I could see the Lord work...where once I thought "you sure need my help here Jesus".

 

[Mako22]

We are talking about the screaming preacher and hellfire brimstone type.

Southern Baptist? Yeah LOL right! I doubt you have ever heard any real fire and brimstone preaching.

 

[1gr8bldr]

I'm bored... so I will jump in where I tried not to. I am not in church. The fact is, you would not want people like me in your church. I used to be there every time the doors were opened, then got my own key. The problem with me is not that I can't be very nice, but I can't seem to overlook the things that "church" does. Where most people don't see it, you don't want me pointing it out.

 

[Israel]

I'm bored... so I will jump in where I tried not to. I am not in church. The fact is, you would not want people like me in your church. I used to be there every time the doors were opened, then got my own key. The problem with me is not that I can't be very nice, but I can't seem to overlook the things that "church" does. Where most people don't see it, you don't want me pointing it out.

Interesting.

 

[welderguy]

I'm bored... so I will jump in where I tried not to. I am not in church. The fact is, you would not want people like me in your church. I used to be there every time the doors were opened, then got my own key. The problem with me is not that I can't be very nice, but I can't seem to overlook the things that "church" does. Where most people don't see it, you don't want me pointing it out.

I've found that usually when I get in the wrong spirit of finding fault in everyone else,it only backfires and winds up condemning me instead.Because I'm no better.I like how Paul put it in Coll.3:13:
"Forebearing one another and forgiving one another;if any man have a quarrel against any,even as Christ forgave you,so also do ye."

 

[JB0704]

The problem with me is not that I can't be very nice, but I can't seem to overlook the things that "church" does. Where most people don't see it, you don't want me pointing it out.

I get tired of folks excusing those things (not sure if we are talking about the same things, but similar concept).

They don't want to pointed out because they don't care. Knowing it won't lead anybody to action. They just get mad at the messenger. I got fed up with it.

 

[1gr8bldr]

I never have issue with people. I do great with people. It's the paying a local no name singer $1500 to come sing 4 songs, yet not willing to do anything if it does not involve keeping the show going, or buying bricks for a bigger show house. Everything is done for men to see, especially the church.

 

[1gr8bldr]

I was asked to head up a men's group a long time ago. We met on monday nights. We grew from 4 to 4 groups of 4. We enjoyed the fellowship, was excited about it. Our wives decided that during this time, they could meet. Meet at my house. The preacher found out about the plan and insisted we have his wife's sister whom was studying to be a preacher/missionary, lead there meeting. This particular woman was not like any of the wives and way to serious. Our wives just wanted to hang out while we had our meeting, at my house, 2 minutes from the church. I then wondered why the preacher would force such a thing when it was going to derail the ladies plan. There plan went from exciting to no more in only a short while. I wondered about that but trusted my preacher. Then the mens group, we were really having a great bible study. All of us never having taken interest in the bible, had found a passion for reading and discussing what we had read. And then, he stopped it. What? To my surprise, two weeks later, he wanted to start again. So we did. Our groups being about the same. And then he stopped it. What? And then we restarted again???? Never any reason for stopping us even though we expressed our desire to continue, just that we had to stop, of which we all were left wondering. This happening over two years until I received in the mail a book put out by our association which had church statics. Each church recording how many small group meetings they had during the year. Then I saw the motive in this preachers madness. He was building a resume. Everytime he stopped and started us, his counter went up. From that point on, what no one realized, I saw clearly how he manipulating everything for his own honor and praise. Once I realized it, it was like I was no longer blind. He was a corrupt man, able to manipulate people under the guise of "God's man". I could tell you stories that would have you boiling, yet no one saw it. They just assumed God's man was not capable of such. I try not to look through these glasses at all churches or preachers. The story I told was just one portion of a ten year span. But it has affected me greatly. Not every preacher is like that or every church. Most are genuinely seeking to please God.

 

[JB0704]

....... It's the paying a local no name singer $1500 to come sing 4 songs, yet not willing to do anything if it does not involve keeping the show going, or buying bricks for a bigger show house. Everything is done for men to see, especially the church.

Then the issue is people. The congregation that sits by and lets it happen is just as guilty, if not more.

 

[1gr8bldr]

Then the issue is people. The congregation that sits by and lets it happen is just as guilty, if not more.

Mixed on this.... I think it would be the leaders. The flock should not be concerned with the agenda. They should assume it in good hands. To much input by the people and you can't conform to all the different opinions. My time being a leader was very frustrating. I was the odd ball who felt as though "maybe it's me who is the problem"

 

[1gr8bldr]

Being out of church, I am concerned about my children, now teenagers. I have studied and determined what it is that I believe and am committed to it. But my children are not motivated, being out of church, to study what the bible says, enough to stand firm, on solid ground. This concerns me.