It's a bird! It's a plan! It's a...Christian Physicst?

Artfuldodger said:

Which came first seeing God while using drugs or using drugs to see God?

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welderguy said:

The fact and logic I was putting forth was the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, which is fact and perfectly logical to those who have it. I was wondering about when you were a "believer",if the Holy Spirit was involved in your "belief"or just head knowledge.Apparently,from your response,it was only head knowledge.
The indwelling of the Holy Spirit can't be proven to others,but that doesn't mean it's untrue.It just means it's personal.

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ambush80 said:

I've come across some anthropology articles that suggest that drug use contributed to spirituality in general and others that claim a direct link to drug use and the God concept. Shamanism unequivocally links the use of psychedelics with communion with God. Here's an interesting piece i found quite quickly:

http://www.ancient-wisdom.com/prehistoricdrugs.htm

Do a little research if you're interested. I would say that the use of psychedelics will certainly cause a mental state that I can't imagine reproducing without them.

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ambush80 said:

That's the point everybody is trying to make to you. It's like saying "vanilla is the best flavor of ice cream". It's not a fact. It may be a fact that you think vanilla is the best a flavor of ice cream. Those claims are not the same at all.

Saying "My god is real" is like declaring a best flavor of ice cream. You will have people that agree with you and some that disagree with you. It says nothing about if it is true.

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bullethead said:

Yep, just like all the other billions of people in the world that apparently love a different flavor.
Welder has not only never tried their ice cream, but he goes so far to say it is not even ice cream at all.

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bullethead said:

Yep, just like all the other billions of people in the world that apparently love a different flavor.
Welder has not only never tried their ice cream, but he goes so far to say it is not even ice cream at all.

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WaltL1 said:

See this is what I'm trying to work out.
You acknowledge you can't use the process to prove them wrong like you proved me wrong
You acknowledge that what you believe can't be proven.
How do you personally square in your mind, KNOWING the above, insisting someone else is wrong?
And please don't go off on the whole faith thing. Acknowledging you have to have faith is acknowledging you can't prove it so that just goes in circle.

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Israel said:

Sam Harris endorsed his own lack of credibility when a friend gave me his discourse on Ethics. He spoke of his having "studied" in whatever measure and then declared this study had "made him a better man".
Really? What's the metric? His own appraisal? Really? Others? If so, Hitler was for many then, undeniably so. I won't judge Hitler, but I will be amused at men who either think they know themselves without bias...or gladly play to the opinions of others.

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Israel said:

Sam Harris endorsed his own lack of credibility when a friend gave me his discourse on Ethics. He spoke of his having "studied" in whatever measure and then declared this study had "made him a better man".
Really? What's the metric? His own appraisal? Really? Others? If so, Hitler was for many then, undeniably so. I won't judge Hitler, but I will be amused at men who either think they know themselves without bias...or gladly play to the opinions of others.

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bullethead said:

Do you hold the religious who claim to "be a better person" because of their faith to the same standards?

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