The True Tragedy of the Orlando Terrorist Attack.

Miguel Cervantes

Miguel Cervantes

Jedi Master
Artfuldodger said:
I agree that we don't understand everything, but "love" fulfilled the Law is something we should all understand.

We are commanded first to love God and 2nd to love our neighbor. We aren't given the choice about who we are to love.
That is something we should all understand.
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I will respond to this, instead of all of the other deflecting non-sense, by sharing a response to this topic (I share these discussions that take place here with a consortium of 5 pastors over 3 denominations for grounding purposes)

One of the Pastors I believe eloquently nailed it.

Love is not easy so it is often left untried. To love is to learn to let go - let go of me - let go of my 'right to be right' - let go of my standing - let go of my understanding - and to fall on my knees and experience the undeserved and unfailing love of God.

Once experienced, it must be shared...there is no choice in this - the touch of God cannot cease to transform the life it touches. May grace lead me forward always.

Judgmentalism and condemnation weary the soul because they are not of God and the soul is of God. Tough lessons. Learned in brokenness. Refined in desperation. Not many are willing to travel that path.
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H

hummerpoo

Gone but not forgotten
This is an excellent statement.

Would you please ask the author if I indicate misunderstanding of his intent with the following nuance:

Love is not easy so it is often left untried. To love is to learn to let go - let go of me - let go of my 'right to be right' - let go of my standing - let go of my understanding - and to fall on my knees and experience the undeserved and unfailing love of God.

Once experienced, it must be shared...there is no choice in this - the touch of God cannot cease to transform the life it touches. And that transformation will be used by God in His work of transforming others. May grace lead me forward always.

Judgmentalism and condemnation weary the soul because they are not of God and the soul is of God. Tough lessons. Learned in brokenness. Refined in desperation. Not many are willing to travel that path.
Click to expand...
 
Miguel Cervantes

Miguel Cervantes

Jedi Master
hummerpoo said:
Are you the author?
Click to expand...

Nope. But I have weekly discussions at length with him and 4 others. The denominations covered by this group of clergy are uniquely diverse in their doctrine, but amazingly similar when put at a table for discussion.

Anglican
Methodist
Baptist

The liturgical differences are obvious, but the desire of the spirit is the same as the "Word" unites all to a common goal. There are some truly amazing insights gleaned from these discussions, the most glaring of all is that for centuries, though Christians like to blame the world, have been their own worst enemy. Especially in the US.
 
Miguel Cervantes

Miguel Cervantes

Jedi Master
hummerpoo said:
Only the author knows his intent. If available, it's his intent that I requested.
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This is not the only social site I am on, and the only form of communication to which I have access to him. He confirmed your query.

If you do not, cannot, trust my answer when I give it to you then I can't help you.

Good day.
 
H

hummerpoo

Gone but not forgotten
Miguel Cervantes said:
This is not the only social site I am on, and the only form of communication to which I have access to him. He confirmed your query.

If you do not, cannot, trust my answer when I give it to you then I can't help you.

Good day.
Click to expand...

Amazing.

4 internet communications in 1 min.
 
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Artfuldodger

Artfuldodger

Senior Member
To me the greatest transformation from pagan to Christian is love. The actual act of my salvation comes in the form of love from God through Christ.

Now for me to transform would be for me to start loving my new God and neighbor as commanded.

I can't speak for that preacher or for anyone else other than wanting to show this new desire to love. Again, I'm not given a choice on who I am to share it with, who I'm to help, and whom I'm to feed. In doing so I'm helping Jesus. In doing so I'm feeding Jesus.

I'm not giving myself or the others salvation from death, just sharing love. I'll leave their salvation to God. I'll leave their judgment to God.

My transformation I'll share with others in the form of love. Love fulfilled the Law;

Galatians 5:14
For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: "Love your neighbor as yourself."

Romans 13:8-10
8Be indebted to no one, except to one another in love, for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the Law. 9The commandments “Do not commit adultery,” “Do not murder,” “Do not steal,” “Do not covet,” and any other commandments, are summed up in this one decree: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” 10Love does no wrong to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the Law.

Not seeing this is the "True Tragedy."
 
H

hummerpoo

Gone but not forgotten
Artfuldodger said:
Love fulfilled the Law;

Galatians 5:14
For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: "Love your neighbor as yourself."

Romans 13:8-10
8Be indebted to no one, except to one another in love, for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the Law. 9The commandments “Do not commit adultery,” “Do not murder,” “Do not steal,” “Do not covet,” and any other commandments, are summed up in this one decree: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” 10Love does no wrong to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the Law.

Not seeing this is the "True Tragedy."
Click to expand...

Look, I am fully aware that it is just a personal quirk of mine, but it really bothers me when you use the past tense "fulfilled". Yes the past tense is correct, but it is incomplete and does not express the sense of the scripture, which is a verb of continuous action. Love did, does, and will fulfill the law.
 
hobbs27

hobbs27

Senior Member
Artfuldodger said:
To me the greatest transformation from pagan to Christian is love. The actual act of my salvation comes in the form of love from God through Christ.

Now for me to transform would be for me to start loving my new God and neighbor as commanded.

I can't speak for that preacher or for anyone else other than wanting to show this new desire to love. Again, I'm not given a choice on who I am to share it with, who I'm to help, and whom I'm to feed. In doing so I'm helping Jesus. In doing so I'm feeding Jesus.

I'm not giving myself or the others salvation from death, just sharing love. I'll leave their salvation to God. I'll leave their judgment to God.

My transformation I'll share with others in the form of love. Love fulfilled the Law;

Galatians 5:14
For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: "Love your neighbor as yourself."

Romans 13:8-10
8Be indebted to no one, except to one another in love, for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the Law. 9The commandments “Do not commit adultery,” “Do not murder,” “Do not steal,” “Do not covet,” and any other commandments, are summed up in this one decree: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” 10Love does no wrong to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the Law.

Not seeing this is the "True Tragedy."
Click to expand...

1st I agree with your using ( fulfilled) to deny the law is fulfilled is to say the law stands.

2nd. Mustn't we define love? Is it love to treat the wicked as a brother, or is it love to introduce the wicked to the source of our love? The source being One that is not accepting of their wickedness .

I see too many folks wanting to comfort lost folks in their wicked state, and comfort them on their trip to the second death, all in the name of love...but that can't truly be love can it?

If you truly love your neighbor, aren't you going to witness to them?
 
Artfuldodger

Artfuldodger

Senior Member
If salvation is of the Lord then so will be their transformation. That is between them and God.

My commandment it to show compassion and help through the form of love.

Since I can't offer them salvation, I'll offer them love. I have no way of knowing which of the bunch God will choose. That's not my concern or command.

If love fulfilled the Law, then all I can do is continue what the Lord started or fulfilled depending on how you want to look at it.

You keep dwelling on the Law. The Law was fulfilled by love. Either they are saved or they aren't. Either way that part isn't my command. My command is to love.

"If you love those who love you, what reward will you get?"
 
Artfuldodger

Artfuldodger

Senior Member
Everyone is in a wicked state. None of us are righteous.

"and such were some of you, but you were washed."

There is only one difference and that is the washing. The washing is of the Lord. I can't wash the wicked as I'm as they are except from my washing. I'll leave that part up to God.

I can't judge them because I do the same things. I'm not any more righteous than they are other than by my washing.
 
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