The True Tragedy of the Orlando Terrorist Attack.

[SemperFiDawg]

Does anyone besides me think the real tragedy of the terrorist attack in Orlando is that 50 souls went to He11, or have we become so PC that it's easier just to not care anymore.....just sit back in our pews or recliners and pretend that doesn't apply to "US",today. And no I don't care to see this turn into a discussion on whether He11 is literal or not. If you want to discuss that, start your own thread. Just assume it is. DOES IT MAKE ONE IOTA'S WORTH OF DIFFERENCE TO ANYONE CALLING THEMSELF A CHRISTIAN? I have seen every conceivable outcome of this tragedy discussed but this, and it seems to me that we are missing the most important point. If the majority in this Country call themselves Christian (I realize this is a dubious claim at best) then why the heck is there not even a modicum of concern about the fate of our fellow brothers and sisters fate? Why?

 

[NE GA Pappy]

Does anyone besides me think the real tragedy of the terrorist attack in Orlando is that 50 souls went to He11, or have we become so PC that it's easier just to not care anymore.....just sit back in our pews or recliners and pretend that doesn't apply to "US",today. And no I don't care to see this turn into a discussion on whether He11 is literal or not. If you want to discuss that, start your own thread. Just assume it is. DOES IT MAKE ONE IOTA'S WORTH OF DIFFERENCE TO ANYONE CALLING THEMSELF A CHRISTIAN? I have seen every conceivable outcome of this tragedy discussed but this, and it seems to me that we are missing the most important point. If the majority in this Country call themselves Christian (I realize this is a dubious claim at best) then why the heck is there not even a modicum of concern about the fate of our fellow brothers and sisters fate? Why?

they will know we are Christians by the love we show to others.


So much for that knowledge, huh?

 

[Artfuldodger]

I think because it was an act of terror by Muslims on our Christian nation.
It's like when two brothers fight each other. That's OK by the two brothers but when an outsider fights a brother, that's a fight on their brotherhood.
So in that sense, they have waged war with our brother even if our brother is a doomed sinner.

Did you ask the same question if Jews were killed in a US town or an average group of American drunkards or gluttons?

 

[SemperFiDawg]

I think because it was an act of terror by Muslims on our Christian nation.
It's like when two brothers fight each other. That's OK by the two brothers but when an outsider fights a brother, that's a fight on their brotherhood.
So in that sense, they have waged war with our brother even if our brother is a doomed sinner.

Did you ask the same question if Jews were killed in a US town or an average group of American drunkards or gluttons?

I take that as a "No" but I did ask the same question about the group of Tajikastani transgenders who were trampled to death in a womens bathroom, on their way to a Bernie Sanders rally, by a herd of rabid musk ox who had been forced north due in part to both global warming and American Imperialism in South Sudan. Does that count?

 

[drippin' rock]

Does anyone besides me think the real tragedy of the terrorist attack in Orlando is that 50 souls went to He11, or have we become so PC that it's easier just to not care anymore.....just sit back in our pews or recliners and pretend that doesn't apply to "US",today. And no I don't care to see this turn into a discussion on whether He11 is literal or not. If you want to discuss that, start your own thread. Just assume it is. DOES IT MAKE ONE IOTA'S WORTH OF DIFFERENCE TO ANYONE CALLING THEMSELF A CHRISTIAN? I have seen every conceivable outcome of this tragedy discussed but this, and it seems to me that we are missing the most important point. If the majority in this Country call themselves Christian (I realize this is a dubious claim at best) then why the heck is there not even a modicum of concern about the fate of our fellow brothers and sisters fate? Why?

Well what do you propose to do about it?

 

[Artfuldodger]

I think the death of any human is a tragedy regardless of where their soul will spend eternity.
I would have the same sympathy for a bar full of Hetero Christians as I did for a Pagan Gay Biker Rally. Considering they were all Americans.

The fate of those club hoppers is in the hands of God. God will have mercy on whom he will have mercy. He could have called any of his sheep from that bunch before they died a physical death.

Not everyone who goes to a gay club is gay. There might have been a few Catholics there recruiting considering it was Latino night.

 

[gemcgrew]

Let the dead bury their dead.

 

[Miguel Cervantes]

they will know we are Christians by the love we show to others.


So much for that knowledge, huh?

^^^ This ^^^

 

[Havana Dude]

I'm curious as to how you have this knowledge. I'm not being confrontational, in fact, I get these thoughts during times like this myself. We don't know what was on the hearts of the deceased, only they and God know that. I will concede that likely a great many did go to CensoredCensoredCensoredCensored, but all 50?

 

[Artfuldodger]

When the Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church members were gunned down, I never questioned the fate of their souls.

"Mormons are the most heavily Republican-leaning religious group in the U.S., while a pair of major historically black Protestant denominations – the African Methodist Episcopal (AME) Church and the National Baptist Convention – are two of the most reliably Democratic groups, according to data from Pew Research Center’s 2014 Religious Landscape Study."

"At the other end of the spectrum, an overwhelming majority of members of the AME Church (92%) identify with or lean toward the Democratic Party, while just 4% say they favor the Republican Party (an 88-point gap)."

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/02/23/u-s-religious-groups-and-their-political-leanings/

 

[Artfuldodger]

Luke 9:60-62
But Jesus told him, “Let the dead bury their own dead. You, however, go and proclaim the kingdom of God.” 61Still another said, “I will follow You, Lord; but first let me bid farewell to my family.” 62Then Jesus declared, “No one who puts his hand to the plow and then looks back is fit for the kingdom of God.”

Can we not bury our dead or tell our family members goodbye after becoming disciples of Jesus?
I do understand that Jesus comes first but still I must take care of my family.
That would be a true sacrifice to leave your dead father for others to bury and not even say goodbye to your family.

 

[NCHillbilly]

Seems to me that I am not omnipotent or qualified in any way to say that somebody went to He11 or Heaven or anywhere else; and it seems to me a pretty arrogant thing for anyone to think that they have that power. I say that what happens to someone after they die is up to the one who created us, and I or you are not that entity. I don't presume to know things like that. Unless you maybe have some special arrangement with God where you are responsible for helping him judge and condemn people that the rest of us don't have?.

 

[gordon 2]

Does anyone besides me think the real tragedy of the terrorist attack in Orlando is that 50 souls went to He11, or have we become so PC that it's easier just to not care anymore.....just sit back in our pews or recliners and pretend that doesn't apply to "US",today. And no I don't care to see this turn into a discussion on whether He11 is literal or not. If you want to discuss that, start your own thread. Just assume it is. DOES IT MAKE ONE IOTA'S WORTH OF DIFFERENCE TO ANYONE CALLING THEMSELF A CHRISTIAN? I have seen every conceivable outcome of this tragedy discussed but this, and it seems to me that we are missing the most important point. If the majority in this Country call themselves Christian (I realize this is a dubious claim at best) then why the heck is there not even a modicum of concern about the fate of our fellow brothers and sisters fate? Why?

Personally as a Christian I am indifferent. There is noting I could have done, or can do regards this. My calling to ministry in our Kingdom is specific and very limited. I am not called to prison ministry. I am not called to mission work. ( I have a hard enough time to judge the people in the Church, let alone wondering in judgement about those possibly out of it.) And I have no direct line with the bouncers at the Pearly Gate. I am not a Jonah for this.

However my denomination has rarely waved the CensoredCensoredCensoredCensored carrot in my lifetime, so this rarely comes to my mind.

 

[SemperFiDawg]

Seems to me that I am not omnipotent or qualified in any way to say that somebody went to He11 or Heaven or anywhere else; and it seems to me a pretty arrogant thing for anyone to think that they have that power. I say that what happens to someone after they die is up to the one who created us, and I or you are not that entity. I don't presume to know things like that. Unless you maybe have some special arrangement with God where you are responsible for helping him judge and condemn people that the rest of us don't have?.

I don't know that it takes any special insight to conclude that people who die while actively reveling in sinful acts in all likelihood don't make the cut, so to speak. It implies no "power" nor " arrogance" to judge between good and evil. We all do it every day. To not do it equates to self lobotomization. It seems to me, and this goes back to the point in the OP, that we Christians today don't even care enough about our brothers and sisters to tell them the truth, taking as you appear to have done, a lazzie fare attitude.

 

[SemperFiDawg]

Personally as a Christian I am indifferent.

I'm sorry, but that statement is self-contradictory. There is absolutely not one iota of doctrine that allows the Christian to be"indifferent" even more specifically when it comes to sin and the plight of our brothers and sisters. To put it mildly, I'm astounded that a Believer could make such a pronouncement.

 

[Miguel Cervantes]

I don't know that it takes any special insight to conclude that people who die while actively reveling in sinful acts in all likelihood don't make the cut, so to speak.

I think, like NCHillbilly, it takes infinitely more insight than God granted us. We were appointed to keep each other, as Christians, on track, but were not granted the authority to "judge the world, nor the fate of it or it's inhabitants". The reasoning and boundaries for this authority we were granted was for love of our Christian brothers, and ironically we were commissioned to only display love for all others, regardless of their infractions, just as Jesus lead by example.

As painful as it may seem for many self-righteous Christians, I cannot find one instance in the New Testament when Jesus put a Pharisee in a position of power to do his bidding.

If we are going to assume that all who sin are going to the hot seat then what about the pedophile priests? What about the Baptist preacher that loves KFC and weighs 400 lbs? What about the church lady that nearly single handed finances the entire church in her community, but smokes a carton a day of cigarettes?

I can go on..........

What about the Great Commission and the two Greatest Commandments of all. Where do they fit into your wanderings of the mind? Even if I submit to your intentions being of the best and in love for your fellow American, to judge based on the sin, and only singling one out as being the worst is counterproductive to our marching orders at best.

 

[NCHillbilly]

I don't know that it takes any special insight to conclude that people who die while actively reveling in sinful acts in all likelihood don't make the cut, so to speak. It implies no "power" nor " arrogance" to judge between good and evil. We all do it every day. To not do it equates to self lobotomization. It seems to me, and this goes back to the point in the OP, that we Christians today don't even care enough about our brothers and sisters to tell them the truth, taking as you appear to have done, a lazzie fare attitude.

I am not a practicing Christian (in a good part precisely because of the hypocritical, judgemental, holier-than-thou actions and words of so many who profess to be, but don't seem to have listened to their own sermons.) But, I have read the Bible extensively, my dad was a preacher, and I have spent hundreds of hours listening to sermons by a whole slew of preachers.

Some things that come to mind offhand are "Judge not lest ye be judged," "And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?" and "He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone," and "Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise." etc. Seems to be a theme in the scriptures for some reason.


I don't play God or make judgements in his name. Nor am I morally qualified to tell others how to live. That is up to God, and is between He and them.

 

[gemcgrew]

I don't know that it takes any special insight to conclude that people who die while actively reveling in sinful acts in all likelihood don't make the cut, so to speak. It implies no "power" nor " arrogance" to judge between good and evil. We all do it every day. To not do it equates to self lobotomization. It seems to me, and this goes back to the point in the OP, that we Christians today don't even care enough about our brothers and sisters to tell them the truth, taking as you appear to have done, a lazzie fare attitude.

It does take special insight to realize that those who died were no greater sinners than the rest of us.

 

[gordon 2]

I'm sorry, but that statement is self-contradictory. There is absolutely not one iota of doctrine that allows the Christian to be"indifferent" even more specifically when it comes to sin and the plight of our brothers and sisters. To put it mildly, I'm astounded that a Believer could make such a pronouncement.

Maybe it is in part due to the yrs I've worked as a nurse and being a Christian. I have found that most if not all people make choices knowing several to make. For example mine on this subject is indifference.

 

[SemperFiDawg]

It does take special insight to realize that those who died were no greater sinners than the rest of us.

....before we were saved. No?