what kind of weed?

Was wondering what type of weed this is and should clethodine kill it?

Carolina Horse Nettle.

No, clethodim is grass-specific herbicide; doesn't work on broadleaf's. Glyphosate (repeated applications), remedy, a few others... It is a very tough perennial weed, with DEEP roots. Whatever you do, don't disk it; every piece you cut the roots into will grow a new plant.

Type it into google for control options, depending on what else you are trying to grow there.

Horse nettle is a tough one to completely kill-it has a stoloniferous root system, and it usually takes several applications of glyphosate or something meaner like a triclopyr/2,4-D mixture to get rid of it.

Even the triclopyr rate needs to be high for control.

Forest Grump said:

Carolina Horse Nettle.

No, clethodim is grass-specific herbicide; doesn't work on broadleaf's. Glyphosate (repeated applications), remedy, a few others... It is a very tough perennial weed, with DEEP roots. Whatever you do, don't disk it; every piece you cut the roots into will grow a new plant.

Type it into google for control options, depending on what else you are trying to grow there.

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FG nailed it.

I've just about eradicated it on my place using GrazonNext over the last few years.

Mow it now before it produces seed, then let it come back to the flower stage so it uses up root reserves, then spray with Grazon. It will kill the top and the rhizome roots.

Grazon will kill every broadleaf it hits. It will not affect grasses. It does have residual effect on broadleaf plants for a few months.

PM me if you want any more details.

This is coming up in my clover so will the herbicide you guys have mentioned kill the clover also? This stuff is taking over

SakoL61R said:

FG nailed it.

I've just about eradicated it on my place using GrazonNext over the last few years.

Mow it now before it produces seed, then let it come back to the flower stage so it uses up root reserves, then spray with Grazon. It will kill the top and the rhizome roots.

Grazon will kill every broadleaf it hits. It will not affect grasses. It does have residual effect on broadleaf plants for a few months.

PM me if you want any more details.

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Don't begrudge anyone using it for your pastures. but Grazon has a long residual rate in horse road apples, making it unsuitable for compost. I don't know how long it will persist, but I got some that had been sitting out for two years, and looked composted, and the Grazon still killed my veggies. Might not have been as bad if I had just used it for a top cover, don't know.

Browning300mag said:

This is coming up in my clover so will the herbicide you guys have mentioned kill the clover also? This stuff is taking over

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Yes, it will kill the clover. I sprayed in July and replanted clover and brassicas late Sep/Oct of the same year and did not have a problem.

The Longhunter said:

Don't begrudge anyone using it for your pastures. but Grazon has a long residual rate in horse road apples, making it unsuitable for compost. I don't know how long it will persist, but I got some that had been sitting out for two years, and looked composted, and the Grazon still killed my veggies. Might not have been as bad if I had just used it for a top cover, don't know.

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You're correct. Stock can graze on pastures that have been treated with Grazon as there are no restrictions. Because the chemical is absorbed into the grasses, manure will still have the active ingredient in it. Supposedly, it can be active in manure for a long time.

The chemical breaks down slowly in the soil and will suppress any broadleaf for some time. I sprayed in July, then later burned the entire plot off and planted my fall plots late Sep/Oct. Did not have any issues. YRMV.

I really, really don't like using chemicals, but the horsenettle was bad on my place. Grazon was what was recommended by knowledgeable folks. Yes, having to deal with it set back my plans a bit. But, it's almost gone now. I'm down to spot spraying individual plant when I see them.

Browning300mag said:

This is coming up in my clover so will the herbicide you guys have mentioned kill the clover also? This stuff is taking over

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Yes, there is nothing safe over clover that will eradicate Horsenettle. You might have to sacrifice the clover & replant, as mentioned above. But if possible, I try to either carefully spot-spray, minimizing application to the clover; or you could use a weed wiper if it is taller than the clover.

If you ignore it, you get more over time. A few dead spots in your clover patch can fill back in, or be reseeded; but Horsenettle will outcompete clover, so you need to eliminate it to effectively grow clover there. It's rather slow, but very persistent & hardy.

Grazon P + D is for grass pastures: the Picloram in it has a very long soil residual. Don't use it where you want to grow broadleaf plants. If you use glyphosate, adding surfactant & a little liquid N fertilizer to it may improve uptake & kill effectiveness.

Btw: don't hand pull it either: those spines have very irritating substances in them that will leave you miserable. Plus, since the roots can go meters deep, it is a wasted effort.

Forest Grump said:

Yes, there is nothing safe over clover that will eradicate Horsenettle. You might have to sacrifice the clover & replant, as mentioned above. But if possible, I try to either carefully spot-spray, minimizing application to the clover; or you could use a weed wiper if it is taller than the clover.

If you ignore it, you get more over time. A few dead spots in your clover patch can fill back in, or be reseeded; but Horsenettle will outcompete clover, so you need to eliminate it to effectively grow clover there. It's rather slow, but very persistent & hardy.

Grazon P + D is for grass pastures: the Picloram in it has a very long soil residual. Don't use it where you want to grow broadleaf plants. If you use glyphosate, adding surfactant & a little liquid N fertilizer to it may improve uptake & kill effectiveness.

Btw: don't hand pull it either: those spines have very irritating substances in them that will leave you miserable. Plus, since the roots can go meters deep, it is a wasted effort.

Click to expand...

FG is correct. The Picloram in Grazon P+D does have a long soil residual. However, GrazonNext uses Aminopyralid in lieu of Picloram. Both have 2,4-D.

Aminopyralid has a much shorter half-life (residual effect) than Picloram.

http://www.weeds.iastate.edu/mgmt/2006/aminopyralid.shtml

The real key to eradicating horsenettle is to kill the roots/rhizomes. Mistakenly, I first used gly and triclopyr on the horsenettle in my plots years ago and it did kill the top, but not the roots. It came back worse the following summer after harrowing and planting my fall mix.

Aminopyralid kills the roots and rhizomes. The only thing left to deal with is seed that has not germinated. One of my plots required two years of full treatment with GrazonNext. The full treatment meaning I sprayed the entire plot once in July each year. I've had very little after that and now only spot spray when I see it.

Some lessons learned to reduce the residuals and get a better kill.

--mow it early summer when you start to see the nettle flowering. Treat after it comes back to almost full flower stage. The second flowering makes the nettle use up root reserves and will result in a better kill overall.

--Leave it as is for a few weeks to get maximum root kill.

--If able, burn off the treated field several weeks after treatment. Burning the leftover vegetation will lessen the residual effects. GrazonNext will kill all the broadleafs, but not the grasses so depending on your specifics, you might have to spray gly to kill the grass for a better burn. I sprayed GrazonNext in July, then came back with gly in August and burned it all a couple weeks later.

--If you can't burn, there might be more of a residual effect on your fall plantings. Your call, but I'd probably just plant SG's until it was fully eradicated.

--After burning and anytime during the fall, look for seedpods. Collect them, soak them in diesel and burn them to a crisp! Make note of the spot and check the next spring/summer.

--I planted red/yuchi clover and brassicas about 11-12 weeks after I sprayed GrazonNext each year and did not have a problem with residual suppression. However, YRMV.

As I said before, the nettle set back my plans by a couple years and was a real pain to deal with. The infestation I had required the nuclear option. I really hate the stuff! Just hope that my experience and the info above can help others.

For reference, these are the seedpods. One is September (all up in my clover), the other in December. Collect and burn'em!
Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

This should help for a replant decision http://www.dowagro.com/webapps/lit/litorder.asp?filepath=range/pdfs/noreg/010-57965.pdf&pdf=true

Either formulation will have a long soil persistence and even though the half-life is less on aminopyralid, it doesn't take very much to cause damage. If you decide to spray triclopyr instead since it doesn't persist as long in the vegetative matter, be aware that recommended spray volume is 40 gallons per acre and the label has a specific rate for horse nettle.

Where can one purchase Grazon. I have a patch growing in my vegetable garden plot. It gets worse every year. I did not plant this year due to deer damage and this horse nettle that I assume arrived in manure. My patch is up about 18 inches. Any help appreciated.

Hooty Hoot said:

Where can one purchase Grazon. I have a patch growing in my vegetable garden plot. It gets worse every year. I did not plant this year due to deer damage and this horse nettle that I assume arrived in manure. My patch is up about 18 inches. Any help appreciated.

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do not spray grazon in your veggie garden... you wont have to worry about planting there for a long time if you do...

Hooty Hoot said:

Where can one purchase Grazon. I have a patch growing in my vegetable garden plot. It gets worse every year. I did not plant this year due to deer damage and this horse nettle that I assume arrived in manure. My patch is up about 18 inches. Any help appreciated.

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I am going to assume you don't have a pesticide license, grazon has several formulation's some safer than others to spray somewhere you plan on having a garden. If nothing is there you want to live I have some mixes you could apply that wouldn't require restricted use products. With horse nettle that big you will most likely need multiple applications.

I do not have a pesticide license but may have access to some restricted chemicals. The important thing for me is to find something reliable and safe that will not ruin my garden plot.

When will you replant it, the fall?

No. I will not plant until spring.

Roundup+24d+triclopyr and a surfactant and it will most likely take 2 applications, are they flowering?