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  #26  
Old 06-06-2016, 08:52 AM
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I am believing you refer to Ghandi's famous quote.
But, what is found there that that remains the central rub for all? Is it not that line of distinction...that very thing manifestly expressed outwardly...of that thing at work inwardly?
The words might be hard to deny, they do not merely come to Hindus observing Christians...we might easily find them here, amongst ourselves...at times. Do we not?




Who clearly sees both?
In all fairness I suppose, many Hindus might understand Jesus to be a Hindu, a great swami... not unlike the New Agers who make out Jesus to be one.

Gandi saw the brits as culture busters, not doubt, because they were.
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Last edited by gordon 2; 06-07-2016 at 12:39 PM.
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  #27  
Old 06-10-2016, 05:36 AM
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Though no man owns the Christ, he may be disowned.
Though no man owns his brother, he may be disowned.
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Old 06-12-2016, 04:10 PM
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Though no man owns the Christ, he may be disowned.
Though no man owns his brother, he may be disowned.
I thought you were in the predestination crowd? Is it your position that Christ can be rejected but can't be chosen?
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  #29  
Old 06-17-2016, 05:46 AM
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Everything occupies the position assigned it by God.
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  #30  
Old 06-21-2016, 10:34 AM
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Though no man owns the Christ, he may be disowned.
Though no man owns his brother, he may be disowned.
How so? That no man owns the Christ? A member of the body other than the head does not own the head?

If a person has Christ in their heart, in their mind they own not Christ?

How do you use the word own bros.? Does not Christ belong to his people as a King belongs to a people?

To disown a brotherhood, does not diminish the fact that brothers are just this despite what one might understand the relationship to be.???

own= belonging to

Even if we de-personify God, as some would prefer, is not this sublime grace added to our consciousness and therefore in our possession, acquired and owned?

If God gave his son ( For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.)----;

To whom did He give his son? Or this is a fable? God is owned by no one, because God is not and one that is cannot own what is not?
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Last edited by gordon 2; 06-21-2016 at 11:14 AM.
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  #31  
Old 06-22-2016, 05:57 AM
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Remain in Me, and I will remain in you. Just as no branch can bear fruit by itself unless it remains in the vine, neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in Me. I am the vine and you are the branches. The one who remains in Me, and I in him, will bear much fruit. For apart from Me you can do nothing. If anyone does not remain in Me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers. Such branches are gathered up, thrown into the fire, and burned.…
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  #32  
Old 06-22-2016, 08:43 AM
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Remain in Me, and I will remain in you. Just as no branch can bear fruit by itself unless it remains in the vine, neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in Me. I am the vine and you are the branches. The one who remains in Me, and I in him, will bear much fruit. For apart from Me you can do nothing. If anyone does not remain in Me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers. Such branches are gathered up, thrown into the fire, and burned.
Ah!
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  #33  
Old 06-24-2016, 03:07 PM
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Remain in Me, and I will remain in you. Just as no branch can bear fruit by itself unless it remains in the vine, neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in Me. I am the vine and you are the branches. The one who remains in Me, and I in him, will bear much fruit. For apart from Me you can do nothing. If anyone does not remain in Me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers. Such branches are gathered up, thrown into the fire, and burned.
Your translation would make it seem as if Jesus will cast you away if you aren't good enough, or not quite to the abiding level. That is not the meaning of John 15 at all. You are either in Christ or not in Christ. Those who are in Christ "abiding" will not be cast away.

In verse 2 of John 15 the KJV says:
2 "Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit." That too is a poor translation. The word translated as "taketh away" is the word "airo" which literally translates as "to lift". Lifting a branch that does not bear so that it can bear fruit is a common practice. To translate "airo" as "taketh away" causes anyone to assume that the "taketh away" from verse 2 is the same as those who are cast into the fire who do not abide in Christ from verse 6.

In verse 6 Jesus makes the distinction that those who are burned are not abiding in him. We however with our sin consciousness sometimes try to make the scripture say that those in him who sin are cast away, or perhaps just those who are in him but do not quite measure up to the abiding level are cast into the fire. That mentality however does not agree with other scriptures like Heb.13:5 that says Jesus will never leave nor forsake us, or Romans 8:35-39.
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  #34  
Old 06-25-2016, 05:38 AM
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There is no mention of the lake of fire, nor is there mention of being eternally lost.
There is no implication that even the vine branch ceases to be a vine branch. It speaks to that which such a branch may experience.
But what there is, is plainly stated. (To me at least, in this regard)

That the vine is the sustainer of the branch. And that is in no way contrariwise, that is that the branch is what makes the vine what it is.
If I have chosen a poor illustration for discussing the nature of relationship and ownership, I suppose I could have better stayed with Gordon's own illustration. The hand does indeed belong to the body, and the body is indeed identified by the head to which it belongs. As such the hand may be given to say "I belong to this body"...and in such, "to belong to=to own", might have some reasonable use in explanation.
But the useful hand never confuses itself with the head to the extent that it "forgets" (and seriously painful experiences ensue, if it does) that it therefore assumes, by belonging to "that body" with which it is identified, that it is now suitable to be the head of all instruction to that body.
A man is shown to be owned less by what he says about himself belonging to anything by his words of "I am of this or I am of that" than the letting of the head, which alone knows what is part of "its own body" do with him as it will...for it knows what it owns.
And, what is...its own.
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Last edited by Israel; 06-25-2016 at 06:48 AM.
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  #35  
Old 06-25-2016, 07:14 AM
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Remain in Me, and I will remain in you. Just as no branch can bear fruit by itself unless it remains in the vine, neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in Me. I am the vine and you are the branches. The one who remains in Me, and I in him, will bear much fruit. For apart from Me you can do nothing. If anyone does not remain in Me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers. Such branches are gathered up, thrown into the fire, and burned.
This is a promise.

"I am like a flourishing cypress; in me will your fruit be found."

"Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God."
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