sighting in my hawken replica

Good morning,

Glad you you were finally able to find an acceptable load. I too have been struggling with finding an accurate load with my TC Hawken over the past 3 weekends.

Funny how I spend 3 hours shooting, but only shoot about 15 bullets in that time. I have been thoroughly cleaning between shots to ensure the best accuracy.

Saturday I spent most of the afternoon with Goex 3F and 385 grain Hornady Great Plains bullets. This is a percussion rifle. My grouping at 60 yards was terrible IMO. I'm using irons but do have the TC peep sight on the tang.

Yesterday I finally got a load to shoot acceptable. I used some old Powerbelt bullets - 295 grains - and 80 grains of Triple 7.

It produced 1 3/4" 3 shot groups for me at 60 yards.

I'm now ready to go. I would really like to find a roundball load for this rifle, but don't have the time this year before muzzle loader season.

You shouldn't have to fully clean the barrel each shot, the labor and trouble far outweigh the benefits. However you can swab the barrel with a damp, not wet but just damp, patch followed by a dry patch.
Your rifle has a patent breech which means a normal jag and patch won't reach the bottom. If you clean with a really wet patch moisture has been known to migrate to the bottom of your breech. When you charge the rifle some of your powder contacts this moisture. This will definetly affect your groups as the velocity will be lower than normal.
When shooting for accuracy or in a match I only clean after the 3rd shot. Then again after the last so as to start out with a clean barrel.

Darkhorse said:

You shouldn't have to fully clean the barrel each shot, the labor and trouble far outweigh the benefits. However you can swab the barrel with a damp, not wet but just damp, patch followed by a dry patch.
Your rifle has a patent breech which means a normal jag and patch won't reach the bottom. If you clean with a really wet patch moisture has been known to migrate to the bottom of your breech. When you charge the rifle some of your powder contacts this moisture. This will definetly affect your groups as the velocity will be lower than normal.
When shooting for accuracy or in a match I only clean after the 3rd shot. Then again after the last so as to start out with a clean barrel.

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Darkhorse,

So how am I supposed to clean the very end of that barrel? You're exactly right about it holding moisture.

My cleaning routine between shots was 7 or so wet patches (50/50 denatured alcohol and Windex), and then a bunch of dry patches. This kept the barrel very clean. I would then fire one cap to clear out any moisture (supposedly).

I would wait a few minutes before discharging the cap. However, about 3 times during my shooting session my charge didn't go off. I guess due to moisture. I would then have to unscrew the nipple, and put just a pinch of powder in the snail and then it would fire.

Aggravating to say the least!

Also, those Great Plains bullets left lead in my barrel. I have cleaned most of it out with patches and Hoppes #9 by letting it sit for 10 minutes or so, but some remains.

What's the best way to get it completely out?

Thanks

Rainmaker, I wouldn't worry about cleaning the end of the chamber while you are shooting, even if dirty it should have no effect on your accuracy.
I haven't seen a TC Hawken manual in years but they used to recommend removing the barrel at days end and immersing the breech in a bucket of water, then cleaning it all by pumping water through it with patch and rod. That action should by itself clean most of the fouling from the end of the chamber.
I made a simple worm by brazing a stiff wire to a 10-32 screw. The diameter was slightly smaller than the end of the chamber. I could drop a patch down the barrel then turn the RR and the worm would spin the patch.
My cleaning routine was and still is, wetting a patch with water or spit, then wringing the excess water from it before running it down the barrel a few strokes. Then 2 dry patches and that's it. By wringing all the excess water from the patch there won't be enough to leave moisture down the barrel.
I see you are using alcohol and windex to clean? Do you know that there is nothing better to clean black powder residue than plain old water? Or spit? Water breaks that residue right down better than anything you can buy or mix. Some of the top match shooters today still use only spit as a patch lube.
Instead of using 7 or so wet patches between shots try just one after 2 or 3 shots. Really, the rifle doesn't need cleaning until the ball starts getting hard to seat. That's the indicator the barrel needs a quick clean. Your rifle will tell you what's best for it. I would continue to pop off a cap or 2 after cleaning. Hold the end of barrel next to a weed or grass and when you pop off that cap the grass or weed should move. If it doesn't then something is clogged up and the rifle probably won't fire if you tried it. Find the problem before shooting again. Pipe cleaners can work wonders here.
I can't help much with the leading problem as I've never had a ML barrel to lead up. I've only shot patch and ball in all my rifles and the patch prevents leading. I would look for a solvent formulated to remove lead such as Hoppe's Elite Bore Gel. If you have some Hopp'es #9 you could saturate a patch and run it through the barrel a few times then let it sit 30 minutes to an hour and then clean the barrel again to judge the affect.
The recoil generated from those 385 gr. bullets could create a flinch. Personally, I would keep trying to find a round ball and patch load that shoots good.

Darkhorse,

Thanks again for the advice. After a shooting session I do clean it with hot water and Dawn dish soap in the bucket. I flush it as you describe with the jag and a wet patch flushing the water up and into the barrel. It does get it very clean.

I never thought of just using water to swab the barrel during a shooting session. I'm just going on what others say regarding the alcohol and windex. I'll give water a try there as well.

I will keep after the roundball search. Using 3F and 80 to 90 grains it was burning through my patches, and accuracy wasn't what I expected.

I'd like to find an accurate roundball load for it though. What's the point in hunting with a traditional muzzleloader if I can't shoot a roundball? For this season though it's going to have to be the powerbelts.

Thank you!

Rainmaker, I'm not sure what caliber your rifle is, I am assuming it is a .54 but the same advice will work with all calibers.
Get your hands on some real 100% cotton pillow ticking. Go to a fabric store with your calipers or micrometer, if you have a set, and measure the ticking. Don't stop when you feel the fabric but crush it down. The crush measurement is what your after. It should measure around .0175 or .018 and it should have a dense weave.
Buy a half yard or so, take it home and wash it in the washing machine at least once, twice doesn't hurt, to remove the factory sizing. After washing you will notice it's softer and easier to handle. If it works good for you go back to the same store and buy several yards.
Now get some .530 round balls. Lube the material. Plain old crisco will work fine, rub the grease into the side with the blue printed stripes. Always do it the same way as consistency equals accuracy.
Now shoot a few of this combination and pick up your patches and look at them. If any are torn or burned through then your rifle has some sharp areas somewhere down the barrel. If so just keep shooting. After 100 rounds or so your barrel should be a lot smoother.
I see you want to use 3fg? Start with 40 to 50 grains of 3fg to get things worked out. My target load is 1/2 of my hunting load. Get it worked out at the lower charge before trying it at 80 grains.
This is exactly the advice given to me back in 1976 when I started out knowing absolutely nothing and it is still good advice today.

Rainmaker said:

Darkhorse,

Thanks again for the advice. After a shooting session I do clean it with hot water and Dawn dish soap in the bucket. I flush it as you describe with the jag and a wet patch flushing the water up and into the barrel. It does get it very clean.

I never thought of just using water to swab the barrel during a shooting session. I'm just going on what others say regarding the alcohol and windex. I'll give water a try there as well.

I will keep after the roundball search. Using 3F and 80 to 90 grains it was burning through my patches, and accuracy wasn't what I expected.

I'd like to find an accurate roundball load for it though. What's the point in hunting with a traditional muzzleloader if I can't shoot a roundball? For this season though it's going to have to be the powerbelts.

Thank you!

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I have one Hawken that doesn't like roundballs, but it shoots solid lead conicals great, and they are very effective on deer. I didn't have much luck with the Great Plains bullets, either, but I like the 350 grain T/C Maxi-hunters. I get good accuracy with them. I don't care for the Powerbelts or other part-plastic bullets myself. Bore-sized lead conical bullets are just as old and "traditional" as percussion muzzleloaders, or older. You don't have to fool with patches, and they drop a deer like the hammer of Thor.

Darkhorse,

It's a .50 caliber TC Hawken that I have had about 25 years. Bought the kit and assembled it. Haven't really shot it much until recently.

NCHillBilly, You're right about the conicals. I'd just like to kill a deer with a PRB if I can get it to shoot.

I would like to find an all-lead conical that it likes, and then buy a mold. I have about 300 pounds of lead that I could make bullets from.

Rainmaker I would try the load I found that worked for me. Your gun is prob a carbon copy like my Hawken. 1:48 twist. I was having terrible accuracy with many different loads. I finally tried .495 round ball ammo with a low load of 70 grains of loose black diamond ffg. I am using pre lubed yellow patches bought at either bass pro or Academy, so I don't really know the thickness before lubing.
Previously I tried power belts + pellets. .490 PRB's and 100 gr of Black Horn 209. Gun would not shoot a group to save its behind.
As soon as I fed it the .495's I aquired from SASS249 the gun now shoots figure 8's all inside of the 10 ring at 50/75 yards.

Good Luck M8!