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Gone But Not Forgotten
Good speech. Try that one in a church some time.
Been there and done that.
Good speech. Try that one in a church some time.
I'm with you in spirit but just a comment -Here is my take.
We are part of a reality that we can not measure, define nor map. To state with any level of certainty that we know how or when or why it came to be is the absolute height of arrogance.
The only thing we know is that we don't know and probably never will.
That leaves us only with what we believe. Your belief is no more rational nor relevant than mine, it is not superior, does not demonstrate any heightened awareness and could be simply a collection of chemicals in our own brain.
Now, I do believe what I believe, with a passion. I do not believe that your different belief becomes superior or inferior based on the differences in our passion. And those differences in passion do not become reason.
Here's the kicker, I am comfortable with you believing whatever you want. But when you tell me you Know, I ain't buying it, not even on double coupon tuesdays blue light special.
I pray to Jesus for peace on Earth and Goodwill to men.
and here -The only thing we know is that we don't know and probably never will.
- It acknowledges the "we don't know".That leaves us only with what we believe.
Your belief is no more rational
Can't argue with thatI pray to Jesus for peace on Earth and Goodwill to men.
I'm with you in spirit but just a comment -
I think there is a place between here -
and here -
- It acknowledges the "we don't know".
- ** It accounts for "what we do know".
- And that is the basis for what we do/don't believe
And in broad terms, is where we as A/As sit and argue/debate from. And it does, in reality, impact this due to the definition of "rational" -
Can't argue with that
And we thought it was just us who found the concept somewhat troublingIt has always bothered me that Christians accuse God of something so brutal, that he would commit something he created to eternal agony. Eternally, not just one life span but suffer forever and ever. And where would be his cut off line for age? Babies, teen.... We have determined that our judicial system considers 18 of age as an adult thus suffering the full wrath of the law. How about God? Does he throw an 8 year old in he11 because they did not accept him at bible school and then got killed that year in a car accident? Do you say no? Well what age then to you think God has determined to do this horrible thing? Since he created man, is he then not responsible for for our lack of trust/belief in him. Would it not be his fault because he has not convinced all? And just think about it, how many souls are in agony now, suffering in he11 right now? How many of your family members are there now, in agony. Shameful that Christianity loves this concept. It should make you sick to your stomach. Mankind should be trying to find a way to overcome this god. Would our country not work to destroy a metorite that was headed toward earth? Or a ruthless leader? Disgusting that Christianity has accused God of such a thing. And to present a belief as if believe or else this. This concept and many others in the bible are accepted because everyone wants to take a book and believe every word.... although it's been tampered with. This concept of he11 is built around 2 basic wrongs. The story of the rich man and Lazurus is a parable that has assisted in the wrong interpretations of many other verses. All the NT verses that have the same topic where translated as a fire that consumes, not burns forever..... except those regarding the fallen angels. There is a real he11 for them because something has to be done with them because they are eternal beings. We are not eternal beings unless born again of the spirit as was Jesus. Christians actually love the concept of he11. They lose no sleep over the socalled reality of it. They have no remorse that their God would do such a thing. And yet, even though proving the he11 concept as wrong takes very little bible study, looking at the words used, very little research, being the easiest false bible concept to prove wrong...... funny how not one of them will say to themselves, I will check into this to see if this has any merit. They will not research it, they might throw out 1 verses as if theology builds from one verses. They will move on as if they almost would hate to discover that they are wrong. Do they enjoy this concept that much.... or are they guided to dismiss it? I say it would be most important to check into it because of the magnitude of accusing a just God of something so unjust
Im just going to assume that you don’t fully understand Christianity and leave it at that, based on the number of Christians that I know that do no such thing.Shameful that Christianity loves this concept. Disgusting that Christianity has accused God of such a thing. Christians actually love the concept of he11. They lose no sleep over the socalled reality of it. They have no remorse that their God would do such. Do they enjoy this concept that much.... or are they guided to dismiss it?
But at this point, based on your answer to my question below, you’re not able to positively disprove God or any god with evidence?If there is equal evidence (or lack of evidence) in the existence of gods which you reject then why should anyone give more credence to your god?
Just a question - are you two absolutely 100% positive that God doesn’t exist?
.
Not 100% but pretty close to it.
Originally Posted by 1gr8bldr
Shameful that Christianity loves this concept. Disgusting that Christianity has accused God of such a thing. Christians actually love the concept of he11. They lose no sleep over the socalled reality of it. They have no remorse that their God would do such. Do they enjoy this concept that much.... or are they guided to dismiss it?
Throwing my opinion out there -Im just going to assume that you don’t fully understand Christianity and leave it at that, based on the number of Christians that I know that do no such thing.
I think neither. I think they are so psychologically comfortable that they aren't going there that its really not a place to fear, its really not a threat etc. so therefore much easier to accept without over thinking it.Do they enjoy this concept that much.... or are they guided to dismiss it?
And I would agree. The average Christian doesn't run around doing the fire and brimstone burn in he11 thing. SEE ABOVE as to why they dont.based on the number of Christians that I know that do no such thing
I'm with you in spirit but just a comment -
I think there is a place between here -
and here -
- It acknowledges the "we don't know".
- ** It accounts for "what we do know".
- And that is the basis for what we do/don't believe
And in broad terms, is where we as A/As sit and argue/debate from. And it does, in reality, impact this due to the definition of "rational" -
Can't argue with that
Once you assume God then everything is attributable to Him and impossible to disprove that He did it. That guy that used to come on here named Lowjack said his congregation rebuked a hurricane once. I wasn't there but I imagine they were in the path of a hurricane, they prayed and the hurricane turned. To them it was enough proof that their rebuke worked. How did they know it was God or even their God? Strangely, as is often brought up here, God never regrows a lost limb that's prayed for. What's that prove to a believer?
There are way to use ones ability to reason that seem better suited and more in line with the natural world.
I have spent 15 years trying to deprogram myself from the teachings I was brought up on. I have read the NT over 1000 times, Even learned to read greek in an effort to see the biased translation errors. I have taken one topic...many times and read through the entire bible several times with one mindset, to see what it says about the subject. I knew the bible so well that I began to see what is in there but more important, what was not. So, I say this to verify that I have studied this topic to extreme degree so that I am confident in my conclusion. Have you or do you just accept traditional teachings? I am not looking for an answer, or to change anyone's mind, but confident no one will say, You spurred me to investigate this. And as you, I'll leave it at that. And to clarify, I'm here because I enjoy discussion. I hope I don't come off as a debater.Im just going to assume that you don’t fully understand Christianity and leave it at that, based on the number of Christians that I know that do no such thing.
I could agree here.Throwing my opinion out there -
I kind of think you are both right.
I think neither. I think they are so psychologically comfortable that they aren't going there that its really not a place to fear, its really not a threat etc. so therefore much easier to accept without over thinking it.
And I would agree. The average Christian doesn't run around doing the fire and brimstone burn in he11 thing. SEE ABOVE as to why they dont.
And you’re not coming off in an argumentative way. No worries there. I like to discussion over debate myself.I have spent 15 years trying to deprogram myself from the teachings I was brought up on. I have read the NT over 1000 times, Even learned to read greek in an effort to see the biased translation errors. I have taken one topic...many times and read through the entire bible several times with one mindset, to see what it says about the subject. I knew the bible so well that I began to see what is in there but more important, what was not. So, I say this to verify that I have studied this topic to extreme degree so that I am confident in my conclusion. Have you or do you just accept traditional teachings? I am not looking for an answer, or to change anyone's mind, but confident no one will say, You spurred me to investigate this. And as you, I'll leave it at that. And to clarify, I'm here because I enjoy discussion. I hope I don't come off as a debater.
I think they are so psychologically comfortable that they aren't going there that its really not a place to fear, its really not a threat etc. so therefore much easier to accept without over thinking it.
I don't know Israel. I'm not convincedMight there be some acceptance that, regardless of whatever we may perceive of this "thing" in its dreadful descriptions, it is at least as much a thing to be avoided in some measure commensurate with the price paid to deliver men from it?
I am very much persuaded the opposite of this is true as stated, at least as regards our Lord's intent of what men should know of it:
Not that the above statement may not be true to some extent of some. But rather that the Lord will measure to us any revelation as needed that would disabuse us of any notion that "some are just going to miss the picnic". No, there is a something to which man may go, unbearable in the extreme...that both Jesus, and now His disciples, do not wish upon any.
Paul said this in testimony of his labor: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:
And was not ashamed of knowing, or speaking this:
Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
Refusing grace has consequences to the same end a man may encounter by trying to reverse the truth. What may often be mistaken as the weakest exercise of God's nature, that is mercy and grace, is found to be the thing the very strongest can not stand against to any prevailing.
I'm thinking you are stating how it SHOULD be.I am very much persuaded the opposite of this is true as stated, at least as regards our Lord's intent of what men should know of it:
Ponder this -I think they are so psychologically comfortable that they aren't going there that its really not a place to fear, its really not a threat etc. so therefore much easier to accept without over thinking it.
But at this point, based on your answer to my question below, you’re not able to positively disprove God or any god with evidence?
I can't positively disprove god. Nor can I disprove Poseidon, leprechauns, fairies, purple flying elephants, Valhalla, or the Flying Spaghetti Monster. I don't need to disprove them. The burden of proof lies with those making the claim those things actually exist. What I can say is that the observable evidence comports with what we would expect if god did not exist and does not comport with the claims made by the Bible about what we should expect if he does exist. So the weight of probability leans in the extreme toward this god being a myth.
I believe that you believe that.
A burden really? Please explain. I find nothing but comfort and peace. I like the discussion and sharing my experiences and hearing yours. I don't feel burdened at all. To prove anything.I can't positively disprove god. Nor can I disprove Poseidon, leprechauns, fairies, purple flying elephants, Valhalla, or the Flying Spaghetti Monster. I don't need to disprove them. The burden of proof lies with those making the claim those things actually exist. What I can say is that the observable evidence comports with what we would expect if god did not exist and does not comport with the claims made by the Bible about what we should expect if he does exist. So the weight of probability leans in the extreme toward this god being a myth.
A burden really? Please explain. I find nothing but comfort and peace. I like the discussion and sharing my experiences and hearing yours. I don't feel burdened at all. To prove anything.