“We do know that no person can be saved except through Christ. We do not know that only those who know Him can be saved by Him.” C.S. Lewis

[SemperFiDawg]

This came to me again today when I sat in a support group whose entire premise is that help is only available from God through forming a relationship with God, though not specifically Jesus Christ. Because of that I think about this quote of C.S. Lewis quite frequently. Many members enter as atheist/ agnostic or others who would never dream of gracing the doors of a church, yet almost every one of them, over time, will come to form a real relationship with God. Some will go further and embrace Christ ,or re-embrace Him (as most have at least an elementary concept of Christ from early childhood teaching) but some just are content to have that relationship with the God they have formed a personal relationship with. They won't pursue it further to the point of recognizing Christ as savior for various reasons, though they universally, conceptually realize that it was God who saved them and will freely and eagerly voice that to anyone who will listen.

Like I said, I ponder this subject almost daily, but I'm not God and I don't make judgements one way or the other. What's odd is that this group and others like them have taken quite a bit of criticism from the Christian community for NOT exclusively preaching Jesus. I find this distressing for a number of reasons, but primarily because, like I said, many members enter as atheist/agnostics or individuals who absolutely despise any hint of the concept of religion or the concept of GOD, yet DO come to form a relationship with God and go on to accept Christ on their own.

The Christian Post printed an article entitled "Is it OK for a Christian to attend AA?" (AA or Alcoholics Anonymous is THE BLUEPRINT for almost all self-help groups out there from Narcotics Anonymous, Alanon, Gamblers Anonymous, and most Christian based self help groups also. It's representativeness is why I chose the article. In the article https://www.christianpost.com/news/...-to-attend-alcoholics-anonymous-meetings.html theologian John Piper

did take issue over the non-sectarian nature of the 12-step program, stating that “the most serious omission of A.A. is not that the higher power is unnamed.”...But the most glaring omission is the entire transaction between God and man in Christ Jesus at the cross. The cross is missing. The atonement for sin is missing,” said Piper.

“Without this — a grasp of this vertical alienation between us and God and the price paid on the cross to overcome that alienation — even adding the name God or Jesus to the higher power will become a religious technique rather than an act of redemption …”

which seems to me to directly contradict what C.S. Lewis stated in the quote and isn't this

the most serious omission of A.A. is not that the higher power is unnamed.”...But the most glaring omission is the entire transaction between God and man in Christ Jesus at the cross.

just saying "The most serious problem is not that AA doesn't mention Jesus by name. The most serious problem is that they don't mention Jesus by name?"

Thoughts???

 

[gordon 2]

If God was able to reveal to the Apostle Peter that Jesus was the Son of God before Jesus' atonement, Jesus saying to Peter, "And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed are you, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood has not revealed it unto you, but my Father who is in heaven." The idea that " without the grasp of this vertical alienation of the cross" man is unable to overcome his alienation from God and so Jesus' name is required as the most essential is perhaps of good intention on Piper's part. But is it fact that our Lord's atoning sacrifice is the the only efficient cure for alienation from God? It does not seem so with our Peter in this case.

The benefit from the cross is one of eternal life. And eternal life is to know God.



Jesus says, “Whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life!” (John 5:24)

So are human beings able to spiritually hear the word of Jesus in their relationship with their creator or the Father, with the God of Abraham alone, without knowing Jesus as Christians do? Did David here the words of Jesus even though the Savior had yet ministered the atonement as Christians know it?

When Isaiah prophecy's the messiah, was he hearing this: "" Jesus answered, “Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again, 14 but whoever drinks the water I give them will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give them will become in them a spring of water welling up to eternal life.”"

It seems to me that as Jesus is God to Lewis Jesus was and is ever in ministry to the world-- don't care who you are. It can be a formal ministry or informal as in outside of our gate. If Jesus and the Father are one, then we have to be careful how we proceed spiritually.

Spiritually ours is good news, but including ourselves and with those of other spiritual traditions we are all in the wait for better news and no alienation at all.

 

[SemperFiDawg]

If Jesus and the Father are one, then we have to be careful how we proceed spiritually.

I think this is the key.

 

[buckpasser]

Not to get off topic, but there is no need in focusing too much on the quote of any man (including Lewis) when we have the word of God at our disposal. Nothing wrong with studying and proving or disproving the thoughts of men and saints, just don’t elevate those things to the teachings of God.