A Visit to Palin’s Church

[farmasis]

Want me to start a new war thread?

Sure, but should be done in politcal forum, I suppose.

 

[Dixie Dawg]

Godly single mom's who desire to stay home with their children should be helped out by the church. Yes, even financially.

Gosh, wouldn't that be great... just think of all the money that the government would save on passing out those food stamps and Medicaid...

Has anyone considered Isaiah 3:12?

"O My people! Their oppressors are children, and women rule over them. O My people! Those who guide you lead you astray, and confuse the direction of your paths."

Women in places of civil authority, because of the abdication of man, is a sign of God's judgment on that society.

No offense, Banjo, but that is some backwards thinking there. And it is very disappointing that a woman would think that way at all. I can't help but feel pity for women of some denominations that are still secluded like that. Yes, a woman should put her family first. But so should the man. That doesn't keep either one from having other duties and responsibilities in society, including civil office.

When I first heard she was running for VP and had a new baby, I thought the same way you do. But then I saw that her husband will be taking leave from his job to be the at-home parent. Why wouldn't that be acceptable? If a woman can do it, the tables should absolutely be able to be turned. I think she should go for it. If nothing else, it will show girls who were brought up thinking the way you do, that they do not have to stay barefoot and pregnant, they can do whatever they want in this life. They can bring home the bacon, fry it up in a pan, and have lunch with the prime minister of England that afternoon.

And kudos to her on her position with Israel.

 

[kw5891]

sure

A Visit to Palin’s Church

Scripture and discretion on the program in Wasilla.


Lisa Miller and Amanda Coyne
Newsweek Web Exclusive
Updated: 1:45 PM ET Sep 2, 2008

Except for the awesome view of pink-tipped peaks from its parking lot, Wasilla Bible Church, in Wasilla, Alaska, is perhaps most remarkable for being unremarkable. It's a big modern building near a strip of car lots. Its sanctuary is full of folding chairs; two video screens display the lyrics to hymns and there's a simple cross behind the altar.

Wasilla Bible Church, however, is having an extraordinary week. On Sunday, its senior pastor Larry Kroons confirmed that Senator John McCain's vice presidential pick, Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin, and her family, regularly attend services there, and have done so for the last six years or so. "They attend here as Sarah and Todd in the presence of God, honoring God as God," he said before he began his sermon. The Palins' new baby, Trig, was "dedicated" at the church two weeks ago, another pastor told NEWSWEEK. (Many conservative churches do "dedications" of infants instead of baptisms-postponing the baptism ceremony until the child is old enough to make a conscious decision for Christ. At a dedication, the parents and the pastor ask for the congregation's help in raising the child.)

On Monday, the church had another cause for notoriety. Kroons told NEWSWEEK that Palin's campaign staff had contacted him that morning to ask for his discretion when discussing the pregnancy of Palin's teenage daughter Bristol. "All I'll say is that Bristol is a young lady. We care about her and want to support her and the family," Kroons said. Ashley Brown, another pastor at the church, said he'd also been contacted by the campaign with the same request. Teenage pregnancy "is not so uncommon up here," adds Brown. "It's easier to accept in Alaska. Maybe it's part of Alaska mentality. In many ways, you raise your kids to assume a lot more responsibilities, than people do around the nation at an earlier age." If a teenager came to him asking for contraceptives, he said he would send the teen home to have a talk with the parents. According to 2000 data from the Guttmacher Institute, Alaska ranks 30th in teen pregnancy nationwide. Nevada, Arizona and Mississippi had the highest rates. (A Palin spokeswoman did not respond to requests for comment).

Except for the national spotlight, Wasilla Bible Church resembles thousands of conservative evangelical churches across the country. Its statement of faith says its members believe that the Bible is the "inspired, inerrant word of God." It offers a half a dozen ministries devoted to children and families, including a chapter of MOPS, a popular nationwide support group for Christian mothers of preschoolers. The sermons of its ministers steer clear of politics and hot-button social issues and dwell instead on scripture. Its membership is largely conservative.

"I'm 'Valley Trash' and proud of it," said Nate Bair, a church member on Sunday morning. (Valley Trash is a pejorative term for people who live in Wasilla and its environs.) An advocate for small government and lower taxes, and an opponent of national health care, Bair calls the Democratic nominee Barack Obama "a socialist." He was lukewarm about McCain, until the Arizona senator put Palin on the ticket.

Palin has said she was baptized in the Roman Catholic church. As a teenager, she began attending the Pentecostal Assemblies of God church in Wasilla and was baptized there by the founding pastor, Paul Riley. Todd Stafford, an associate pastor at Wasilla Assembly of God, says Palin often publicly thanks Riley--now nearly 80 and still working as a prison chaplain--for bringing her to Jesus when she visits the church. She attended that Pentecostal church until she was 38 years old, when she switched to Wasilla Bible Church, saying she preferred the children's ministries there.

Pentecostalism is one of the fastest growing branches of Christianity in the world, and the Assemblies of God is one of the largest Pentecostal denominations in the country, claiming 1.6 million members. Pentecostals are generally characterized by a strict adherence to moral codes--no tobacco, no alcohol, no social dancing, no sex outside of marriage--and by their belief that the Holy Spirit bestows upon some the gift of "speaking in tongues," a reference to Acts 2: "And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost and began to speak with other tongues." A spokeswoman for the McCain-Palin campaign has said that Palin attends many churches and does not consider herself to be Pentecostal.

This past Sunday, worship at the Assembly of God fellowship in Wasilla was as euphoric as the Bible Church was staid. The congregation of about 100 was on its feet, shouting and clapping. Some members on another Sunday might murmur and keen in low voices, the sound of speaking in tongues. But the purpose of the sermon this Sunday was to prepare the church for the media onslaught that was sure to follow. "Because Jesus Christ died on the cross," the senior pastor, Ed Kalnins, told the crowd, "we can worship in public. How many people are thanking God for what's happening to Governor Sarah?"

Kalnins guessed that about half of the people in his church have the gift of tongues. He has it himself, he says, though he rarely demonstrates it. "It's not meant to be shown off," he said. "It's not like flexing muscles. I received the gift in college, and it transformed my life." It's not something like from the "remote parts of the jungle," he adds: It's a decision.

And if the staff of Wasilla Bible Church shies from taking political stands, Kalnins does not. Homosexuality, he says, is a choice. He would not vote for a pro-choice candidate. When asked about the evolution-creationism debate, Kalnins is clear: "You present the facts of creation versus evolution and the truth will come out," he says. What does Palin think? "This is something inside every human heart of a believer," he answers. When Palin worships in Juneau, she attends an Assembly of God church there. Sarah Palin may not call herself a Pentecostal, but she has deep and long experience in Pentecostal churches. And as the race wears on, this biographical fact will likely become another religious Rorschach test--pleasing to some, discomfiting to others.

what have we become spy's for Jesus ? show me in bible where Jesus said spy on each other do you sir have a degree in what a christian is to be ? show me in the bible where God call you to bad mouth a church ? what your church address so we can come and see how your church is doing ??? so we read newsweek and bash a church and a christian good jobs guys

 

[Banjo]

Dixie,

No offense, Banjo, but that is some backwards thinking there. And it is very disappointing that a woman would think that way at all. I can't help but feel pity for women of some denominations that are still secluded like that.

First of all, God said that, I just typed it out and put it on the forum. Please don't pity me....I guarantee you that I am in no way oppressed or "unfulfilled." Understanding the Bible and the role God would have me fill is quite liberating. I imagine my husband would get a good chuckle out of your above statement. I get to spend quality time, every day with my children. I don't have to deal with the pressures of working an 8 to 5 job. What more could any mom want?

No offense Dixie, but you (as well as many others in the church) have taken the bait, hook, line and sinker concerning feminism. Your thinking would make the "sisters" at NOW proud. God set things up differently, and His ways are always best (whether we like them or not).

Why wouldn't that be acceptable? If a woman can do it, the tables should absolutely be able to be turned. I think she should go for it. If nothing else, it will show girls who were brought up thinking the way you do, that they do not have to stay barefoot and pregnant, they can do whatever they want in this life.

Christians should ONLY do what God has called them to do, so NO we can not do whatever we want to in this life. Women are to be the primary caregivers to their infants...after all, (in a world with no instant formula)women are the only ones even capable of even feeding their babies. God made it that way.

 

[Banjo]

I have no doubt that they would have recanted those positions at various times and under quite different situations since.

Does this same argument go for the other principles the Founding Father's gave us?

Should we give up the First Amendment because times have changed? How about the rest of the Bill of Rights? I find it a bit disturbing that we are so willing to dismiss certain principles simply because we are in need of a convenient rationale to justify some of our foolish politics today.

**The principles in the Constitution do not change.

I am starting the war thread and moving this topic there.

 

[Israel]

I think you missed my point. You doubt Palin's commitment and resources to meet her Biblical obligations and those she would necessarily have to shoulder if elected. I think that is presumptuous on your part.

I repeat in part:

"Moreover , it is slippery when we project upon others what we deem right and proper for ourselves. I think Jesus may have called it " the eye exam", about a beam and a mote. Or maybe it was the "I" exam.

It's OK to recognize something for what we believe it to be without criticizing what we believe it is not.

I am a member of the Glass House Homeowners Association and as such should be cautious of brick throwing.

Any one want to join?"

"Belittling" made be too harsh a word for your characterization of Palin, but had I said the same, someone might consider me a tad bit self-righteous.

I am very aware of beams in my eye. The Holy Spirit brings them to mind as often as they appear.
My prayer for you is that the Holy Spirit does the same for you, whether mote or beam.

Membership in the GHHA is still open.

Peace be unto you and yours.

If I may add...

People who live in log cabins should not throw chainsaws.

People who live with aluminum siding should not throw can openers.

People who live in mud huts should not throw water.

And of course, people who live in straw huts should not throw Bic lighters.

Just some handy household hints. Always better to be safe than sorry.

And just for the record, the world can no more approve of the place assigned of God for men than it can for women.
Both look foolish and weak to the world whose pride has blinded it.
And will be its ultimate undoing.

 

[Dixie Dawg]

Dixie,



First of all, God said that, I just typed it out and put it on the forum. Please don't pity me....I guarantee you that I am in no way oppressed or "unfulfilled." Understanding the Bible and the role God would have me fill is quite liberating. I imagine my husband would get a good chuckle out of your above statement. I get to spend quality time, every day with my children. I don't have to deal with the pressures of working an 8 to 5 job. What more could any mom want?

No offense Dixie, but you (as well as many others in the church) have taken the bait, hook, line and sinker concerning feminism. Your thinking would make the "sisters" at NOW proud. God set things up differently, and His ways are always best (whether we like them or not).



Christians should ONLY do what God has called them to do, so NO we can not do whatever we want to in this life. Women are to be the primary caregivers to their infants...after all, (in a world with no instant formula)women are the only ones even capable of even feeding their babies. God made it that way.

Well, your argument was very well thought out, but with only one (major) flaw... I'm not a Christian.
And thank you for reminding me of yet one more reason why I left that religion in the first place......

I'm glad for you if you are happy with the lifestyle you lead. I'm glad I'm raising my daughter to know she can do whatever she wants to in this world, no matter what gender she was born as. It makes me wonder how much better off the world could have been had brilliant women in the past not been suppressed by religion and closed-minded beliefs.

 

[Banjo]

Dixie...

Ahhhh... then your argument makes total sense. Forgive me for my assumption; you have been posting in the Spiritual section, so I assumed you were a Christian.

 

[PWalls]

what have we become spy's for Jesus ? show me in bible where Jesus said spy on each other do you sir have a degree in what a christian is to be ? show me in the bible where God call you to bad mouth a church ? what your church address so we can come and see how your church is doing ???

Uhhh. You do realize that what he posted was a copy/paste from a news article and does not necessarily mean he believes what it says, right?

 

[Dixie Dawg]

Dixie...

Ahhhh... then your argument makes total sense. Forgive me for my assumption; you have been posting in the Spiritual section, so I assumed you were a Christian.

That's ok, I had a feeling you had assumed that. But this 'spiritual' part of the forum is for discussion, debate and study. It isn't just Christians... the handbasket I'm riding in has many other passengers from the forum in it, so you probably shouldn't assume someone is Christian if they post in here

And besides, just because I'm not a Christian doesn't mean I'm not spiritual.....

 

[Double Barrel BB]

what have we become spy's for Jesus ? show me in bible where Jesus said spy on each other do you sir have a degree in what a christian is to be ? show me in the bible where God call you to bad mouth a church ? what your church address so we can come and see how your church is doing ???

I hope this wasn't directed at me...

All I did was post an article from online Newsweek... If you click the link(the title) of the article it will take you to the site, and if you want, write the author and tell them your feelings, I do it all the time, very rarely do i get a response though....

DB BB

 

[Banjo]

Dixie,

Gotcha... I do have a question. Is your disdain just towards Christianity, or does it include Islam as well? Which religion do you think denigrates women the most?

the handbasket I'm riding in has many other passengers from the forum in it, so you probably shouldn't assume someone is Christian if they post in here

I thought that because you started a thread on keeping "God's Law," you were a Christian. In that post you mentioned reading the Bible and providing Scripture references if necessary...

 

[Dixie Dawg]

Dixie,

Gotcha... I do have a question. Is your disdain just towards Christianity, or does it include Islam as well? Which religion do you think denigrates women the most?



I thought that because you started a thread on keeping "God's Law," you were a Christian. In that post you mentioned reading the Bible and providing Scripture references if necessary...

I can, do, and will I used to be a Christian, I know my bible very well (maybe a little 'too' well) and love to discuss it.

And no, when it comes to the suppression of women, I don't single out Christianity, not at all. As far as which religion is worse, well, I don't think it really matters... that's like asking, which is worse, getting hit by a Mack truck or getting hit by a train? Either way, you're dead....

And by the way, welcome to the forum!

 

[kw5891]

it was directed to you

I hope this wasn't directed at me...

All I did was post an article from online Newsweek... If you click the link(the title) of the article it will take you to the site, and if you want, write the author and tell them your feelings, I do it all the time, very rarely do i get a response though....

DB BB

why would you post something that you dont know for sure ? i hear newsweek say a few years ago that Jesus was gay did i run to post on gon like you did

 

[kw5891]

pwalls you should know better

Uhhh. You do realize that what he posted was a copy/paste from a news article and does not necessarily mean he believes what it says, right?

why post somethig you read about it call carriers of lies. so i am to bash a church because of a newweek. larry king said lies about Christians should i post a lie because of larry king said it ? i believe Jesus would be disappointed in us wow what have we become

 

[farmasis]

Christians should ONLY do what God has called them to do, so NO we can not do whatever we want to in this life. Women are to be the primary caregivers to their infants...after all, (in a world with no instant formula)women are the only ones even capable of even feeding their babies. God made it that way.

What would you have barren women do?

 

[PWalls]

why post somethig you read about it call carriers of lies. so i am to bash a church because of a newweek. larry king said lies about Christians should i post a lie because of larry king said it ? i believe Jesus would be disappointed in us wow what have we become

DBBB frequently posts articles/links from news sites that touch on religious topics. He does that for several reasons. One of which is to engage in discussion on this board. That does not imply that he believes or endorses the source or topic that he links. It is a simple primer to start a discussion. Sometimes we discuss. Sometimes we don't.

 

[kw5891]

thank you

DBBB frequently posts articles/links from news sites that touch on religious topics. He does that for several reasons. One of which is to engage in discussion on this board. That does not imply that he believes or endorses the source or topic that he links. It is a simple primer to start a discussion. Sometimes we discuss. Sometimes we don't.

ok just wanted to be fair

 

[Double Barrel BB]

why would you post something that you dont know for sure ? i hear newsweek say a few years ago that Jesus was gay did i run to post on gon like you did

To spark discussion, I do not endorse a large amount of news stories I post here, but I figure they might get us all talking... Do we ever know for sure what is in the media? No, and we never will unless we do the investigating ourselves. If I had seen that post about "Jesus was Gay" I am sure I would have posted it, and I am sure it would have sparked a huge discussion... I have been posting articles on here for about 2 years, and have sparked several good discussions and even some debates, I believe a lot of those topics have led a lot of people to a stronger faith in Christ...

DBBB frequently posts articles/links from news sites that touch on religious topics. He does that for several reasons. One of which is to engage in discussion on this board. That does not imply that he believes or endorses the source or topic that he links. It is a simple primer to start a discussion. Sometimes we discuss. Sometimes we don't.

AMEN! Brother Walls, couldn't have said it better!!!

ok just wanted to be fair

No problem.

DB BB

 

[Wild Turkey]

Who are you to believe Sarah cant be an effective VP with a baby and family in tow. Thats about as sexist as it can get. Thats why women have the gift/responsibility of giving birth to children, because a man couldnt handle the job. Im sure she, her husband and family can handle the situation. She's already done it 4 times prior while being a mayor/governor.

On the other slight of words. Children of the upper mid west are raised different than around here. They arent shielded, spoiled, and treated like babies till they are 20. They have more responsibilities and grow up much faster. Her daughter is pregnant, is getting married and will deal with her decisions accordingly. God forbid it happens to one of you (special) people who are standing on your stump. Dont point fingers at someone elses situation as not favorable to your beliefs until you stand in their shoes.