And y’all say

[across the river]

I think you may want to do a little more research about your assumptions. Waterfowling alone led to over $100mil in revenue for the AGFC alone. They get license fees, and a portion of the sales tax for all hunting related products.
The fed got about the same amount out of AR. Waterfowl hunting generates of 18,000 jobs in the state of AR and the fed collect taxes from. Im guess that’s a pretty huge $ too.

With organizations like DU, And Delta Waterfowl AR can lease land from farmers or set up conservation easements for rest areas for little to nothing. Arkansas did dig themselves a hole by not looking at the long term. They have even admitted it. There is plenty that state can do to increase duck numbers. They need to go back to what they were doing 20yrs ago before they let anti hunting corporate jack legs take over the agency.

If you had actually read my entire post before you started responding, the “research” was done for you and the links are actually in the post I made. The argument made, to which I responded, was that Arkansas was loosing out of state hunters due to the restrictions on them, and should have acquired a bunch of land to deal with the influx of hunters. There wasn't an "influx", at least of any significance.

In reality, Arkansas resident license sales fell from 2014 to 2019 and the only significant increase in any license period was non-resident small game, which would be tied to OOs'ers duck hunting, who were supposedly no longer showing up. Arkansas sold ~40,000 non-resident small game license in 2014 and ~47,000 in 2019. That is a nearly 20% increase in small game license purchases, and while that might be noticeable on some WMAs when waterfowl hunting, it isn't close to enough people to generate $100 million dollars or provide income to the state to purchase a bunch of land. It dang sure doesn't come close to making up for the large drop in hunting licenses overall. I think you need to do some more research. Fortunately for you, the links are still there.

I have hunted Arkansas, nearly every year since the early 1990's. The early years on public all over the place to mainly private land since the early 2000s. The private land, which had been pretty phenomenal for years, has been abysmal recently compared to what it once was. I didn't even go the last two years, because the couple of times they had a few ducks I couldn't get out there. The drop off on that place has zero to do with OOS'ers, pressure, or the AGFC. Migration patterns have changed, especially in the Mississippi flyway. Blame farming practices, global warming, whatever you want to, but I have hunted MS, LA, and ARK all enough of the last three decades to have seen the change first hand, especially on private land that gets as little, or even less, pressure now that it did years ago. I'm not saying they don't still get ducks passing through, or that you can't kill birds there, but it is different for sure. All this, its the DNRs fault stuff is ridiculous. They aren't managing a trout stream or stripers in a lake where they have control over what gets put in and taken out. It is what it is. You can either adjust, or continue to complain.

 

[FloppinBob]

If you had actually read my entire post before you started responding, the “research” was done for you and the links are actually in the post I made. The argument made, to which I responded, was that Arkansas was loosing out of state hunters due to the restrictions on them, and should have acquired a bunch of land to deal with the influx of hunters. There wasn't an "influx", at least of any significance.

In reality, Arkansas resident license sales fell from 2014 to 2019 and the only significant increase in any license period was non-resident small game, which would be tied to OOs'ers duck hunting, who were supposedly no longer showing up. Arkansas sold ~40,000 non-resident small game license in 2014 and ~47,000 in 2019. That is a nearly 20% increase in small game license purchases, and while that might be noticeable on some WMAs when waterfowl hunting, it isn't close to enough people to generate $100 million dollars or provide income to the state to purchase a bunch of land. It dang sure doesn't come close to making up for the large drop in hunting licenses overall. I think you need to do some more research. Fortunately for you, the links are still there.

You are correct I should have done more research. AR does not generate 100mil in tax revenue, I apologize for miss speaking. They generate $698mil in revenue in state and local tax through recreation every yr...MY BAD. Recreation has a $1.6 billion direct impact on the AR economy yearly. Stuttgart itself receives $1million a day during duck season.

https://armoneyandpolitics.com/outdoor-recreation-is-big-business-in-arkansas/

 

[across the river]

You are correct I should have done more research. AR does not generate 100mil in tax revenue, I apologize for miss speaking. They generate $698mil in revenue in state and local tax through recreation every yr...MY BAD. Recreation has a $1.6 billion direct impact on the AR economy yearly. Stuttgart itself receives $1million a day during duck season. View attachment 1086262

https://armoneyandpolitics.com/outdoor-recreation-is-big-business-in-arkansas/

So what are you arguing mic dropper? Lets assume the $1.6 billion impact number is correct from "recreation." That includes all hunting and fishing licenses, which they sold more than twice as many of as hunting licenses. Not sure what minnow, worm, or rod and reel sales and taxes on 5.56 ammo have to do with the conversation. Even then $1.6 is ~1% of GPD of the state. So the "real" impact of the ~75,000 duck hunters the state sees every year is roughly 15% of the total 1.6 billion dollars. Pick your mic back up. It ain't that much money.

 

[FloppinBob]

$698 Mil in tax revenue is a substantial amount to go into the state coffers so is 96,000 direct jobs.

"In Arkansas, outdoor recreation accounts for roughly 96,000 direct jobs, $9.7 billion in consumer spending, $2.5 billion in wages and salaries and $698 million in state and local tax revenue. Hunters and anglers alone generate an economic impact of more than $1.6 billion annually. A great deal of the economic benefits from hunters and anglers is felt in rural Arkansas small businesses."

AR and the AFGC has the money to invest to grow their recreational GDP.

 

[across the river]

The original post said that AR had run off out of state hunters and should buy a bunch of land. I posted resources showing OOs'ers weren't dropping and there total revenue generated from hunting all together wasn't even enough to buy that much land if it all went to purchases. The next response was "Waterfowling alone led to over $100mil in revenue for the AGFC alone." They don't generate even 1/5 of that in total revenue from licenses for everything combined. Where is the other $80,000,000 coming from. Then it was "recreation" generated $1.6 billion, but water fowling is a small part of that. Not one of you have given any evidence to back up any of your statements, and I have proven most of them to be wrong. Heck, here is the article he got his $1.6 billion from, and Hot Springs is the largest travel destination. That at duck hunting. What am I wrong about?


https://armoneyandpolitics.com/outdoor-recreation-is-big-business-in-arkansas/

 

[across the river]

So show me something that says that revenue from due to "recreation" has dramatically decreased? Show me where "duck hunting" impact has dropped off. You can't, because it hasn't. You guys are the same ones that thing the Georgia DNR has the money or resources to turn Darien into a duck Mecca. I get everyone want more public duck hunting opportunities, I'm just old enough to not be naive enough to think it is really going to happen.

 

[FloppinBob]

Your own chart in the 2nd link of your 1st post shows 6.2 Mil in revenue form non res licenses alone. If you had researched further you would know (like I said before) a portion of the taxes from every recreation sale goes to the AFGC.

 

[across the river]

Still not sure what you all are arguing. I would be willing to bet I’ve hunted the Mississippi more than several of you combined over the years. Are there less birds there than there were years ago yes. Is public land more pressured, absolutely. It is here as well. What I don’t understand is what you guys think the states can magically do turn back time. Y’all are acting like the states spent more in
1995 and that is the reason for more ducks. Festenthal, Bayou Meto, Black Swamp, you name it are still there. If numbers are down, what do honestly think buying another 10,000 acres is going to do? If
The birds don’t make it past the Canada border it doesn’t matter if the flooded the whole state. What is it that
You guys are arguing for? I’m simply saying duck hunting in the whole dang
Flyway doesn’t generate enough money to “fix”something you can’t fix. It always the same junk on here. The government is supposed to “fix it”
for you. Someone explain what it is you expect them to do.

 

[FloppinBob]

First of all I've spent ALOT of time in the MS flyway. I've been hunting out there up to 30+ days a season for the last 15 yrs. Second of all AR, and MS along with DU used to pay farmers to leave their fields flooded until planting season. Nowadays the pull the boards the day after the season closes . The GTR's don't get water pumped in them until 2 days before the season opens. The last 3 yrs you couldn't even hunt Ashbaugh the opener out of a boat there was so little water. 3rd the AFGC got upset at the Corp for letting to much water out of the Black and sued them. Now the Corp let's very little water out of the Black unless they have to. That effects DD, The Black River Refuge, The Cash River Refuge, The White River Refuge, Rainey Break, Hurricane Lake and several others.

Common sense tells a man that when you get rid of water, you get ride of waterfowl. Would you rather travel down a dirt rd with no gas or food or down an interstate with gas and food when you are going on vacation. The Black River is now a dirt rd. The draining off of water after the season closes keeps the birds from imprinting. Their are many more examples I have to prove that things can or could have e been done by the state of AR to better the hunting, and thare things they have money to do and they won't.

 

[mizzippi jb]

But hey..... Long as there's a line at ashbaugh camping week before the opener when there's only river and pump water, the yee yees will be happy showing up and taking selfies in the line for Instagram and being told they can have the 3 or 4 crappiest weekends of the yr to ride around and "hunt"

 

[across the river]

I spent most of the 90s hunting the public ground and was fortunate enough to have friends, business contacts, etc... to hunt mainly private from the early 2000s on. A couple of those properties are managed with no expense spared. All of there numbers are down dramatically the last several years. The days of hunting the same blind everyday and limiting out regularly seem to be over, at least over more than a couple of day stretch. If the public land was terrible and they were hammering them everywhere on private, that’s one thing. That isn’t the case. Could they manage it better, I’m sure they could, I’m not arguing that. What I am saying though is when a pile of millionaires can’t manage a property to pull ducks
like they used to, there is nothing the DNR is going to do to turn the clock back 30 years. There isn’t enough money out there to “fix” forces you can’t control. Private land owners across the whole southern part of the flyway are seeing the same thing. I just find it funny that people think the state spending more money or buying more land will fix it. I have a buddy here in GA that has a place he had planted and flooded for years and killed a pile of ducks on it for years. I have a small pond we plant as well that you could count on killing several
species on each year. They
both have been pretty bad the last two or three years compared to years proper. That isn’t the Georgia DNRs fault, and no
amount of money that I or them throw at it is going to take us back where it was at one time unless weather patterns or something dramatically change. It is all across the country, especially the southern part. I’m not arguing that public land couldn’t be managed better, but not amount of money is going to magically turn back the clock on Arkansas anymore than it would turn Darien into a duck Mecca.

 

[FloppinBob]

But hey..... Long as there's a line at ashbaugh camping week before the opener when there's only river and pump water, the yee yees will be happy showing up and taking selfies in the line for Instagram and being told they can have the 3 or 4 crappiest weekends of the yr to ride around and "hunt"

I only hope that I am fortunate enough to never have to see that sight again.

 

[jdgator]

I spent most of the 90s hunting the public ground and was fortunate enough to have friends, business contacts, etc... to hunt mainly private from the early 2000s on. A couple of those properties are managed with no expense spared. All of there numbers are down dramatically the last several years. The days of hunting the same blind everyday and limiting out regularly seem to be over, at least over more than a couple of day stretch. If the public land was terrible and they were hammering them everywhere on private, that’s one thing. That isn’t the case. Could they manage it better, I’m sure they could, I’m not arguing that. What I am saying though is when a pile of millionaires can’t manage a property to pull ducks
like they used to, there is nothing the DNR is going to do to turn the clock back 30 years. There isn’t enough money out there to “fix” forces you can’t control. Private land owners across the whole southern part of the flyway are seeing the same thing. I just find it funny that people think the state spending more money or buying more land will fix it. I have a buddy here in GA that has a place he had planted and flooded for years and killed a pile of ducks on it for years. I have a small pond we plant as well that you could count on killing several
species on each year. They
both have been pretty bad the last two or three years compared to years proper. That isn’t the Georgia DNRs fault, and no
amount of money that I or them throw at it is going to take us back where it was at one time unless weather patterns or something dramatically change. It is all across the country, especially the southern part. I’m not arguing that public land couldn’t be managed better, but not amount of money is going to magically turn back the clock on Arkansas anymore than it would turn Darien into a duck Mecca.

As I said in my original post, my point is conserve what you have BEFORE you lose it. It has to be done on a macro level. That’s why I said Kansas has an opportunity and Arkansas seems to have missed its window.

 

[Resica]

Arkansas was short sighted. It assumed it would always be the waterfowling capital of the world. It chose to monetize interest in waterfowling over the short term instead of acquiring more land to deal with in the influx of hunters. To keep up with demand, the state should have tripled or quadrupled its footprint. But it really hasn't made any meaningful acquisitions since the 1980s. The over-pressured birds aren't coming like they used too, and traveling sportsmen are tired of being treated like a nuisance.

Kansas has a golden opportunity purchase and maintain more waterfowl areas to keep up with demand. If the commission is smart, it would double it's waterfowl land holdings over the next decade. Most waterfowlers have no problem paying a premium price for a premium opportunity.

What are the prices that Arkansas is allowed to pay per acre for land? It's not much up here and they need help purchasing land.