Are you a Gunowner and a member of the UMC?

rjcruiser

Senior Member
This is a cut & paste from the political forum. Thought it belonged in here too;) Glad I'm not a part of the UMC. :D


If so, are you aware of your church's anti-gun agenda and activities?

Do you know how much money your church donates to organizations such as Handgun Control International and other activities who are working to deny you your Second Amendment rights?

This from the United Methodist Church BOOK OF RESOLUTIONS:


(1) convene workshops of clergy and other mental health care professionals from communities (urban, rural, and suburban) in which gun violence has had a significant impact in order to discuss ways by which The United Methodist Church should respond to this growing tragedy, and to determine what role the church should take in facilitating dialogue to address the issue of gun violence in our schools and among our children;

(2) educate the United Methodist community (parents, children, and youth) on gun safety, violence prevention, adult responsibility around gun violence prevention, and the public health impact of gun violence;

(3) identify community-based, state, and national organizations working on the issue of gun violence and seek their assistance to design education and prevention workshops around the issue of gun violence and its effect on children and youth;

(4) develop advocacy groups within local congregations to advocate for the eventual reduction of the availability of guns in society with a particular emphasis upon handguns, handgun ammunition, assault weapons, automatic weapons, automatic weapon conversion kits, and guns that cannot be detected by traditionally used metal detection devices. These groups can be linked to community-based, state, and national organizations working on gun and violence issues;

(5) support federal legislation to regulate the importation, manufacturing, sale, and possession of guns and ammunition by the general public. Such legislation should include provisions for the registration and licensing of gun purchasers and owners, appropriate background investigation and waiting periods prior to gun purchase, and regulation of subsequent sale;

(6) call upon all governments of the world in which there is a United Methodist presence to establish national bans on ownership by the general public of handguns, assault weapons, automatic weapon conversion kits, and weapons that cannot be detected by traditionally used metal-detection devices;

(7) call upon the print, broadcasting, and electronic media, as well as the entertainment industry, to refrain from promoting gun usage to children;

(8) discourage the graphic depiction and glorification of violence by the entertainment industry, which greatly influences our society, and recommend that these issues be addressed through education and consciousness raising;

(9) call upon the federal and state governments to provide significant assistance to victims of gun violence and their families; and

(10) recommend that annual conferences make visible public witness to the sin of gun violence and to the hope of community healing.

http://archives.umc.org/interior.asp?ptid=1&mid=937
_______________________________________________

RESOLUTION #2008-06
RESOLUTION TO 2008 ANNUAL CONFERENCE SESSION
Pertaining To Support For “One Handgun A Month” Legislation In Pa.
Presented By: Church And Society And A United Methodist Witness Pa

WHEREAS: The United Methodist Church has a long history of support for gun control legislation. The Social Principles 164 F states the position on the use of violence. Furthermore, the Bible discusses the following imperatives;
1) The Sixth Commandment, “Thou Shall not kill,” not only forbids killing; it also implies that we are obligated to prevent harm and to preserve life and the well-being of human life;
2) The book of Isaiah (1:17) encourages us to seek justice, Isaiah (65:29) speaks of a time when man will neither harm or destroy.
3) Micah 6:8 NRSV “He has told you, O mortal, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?
4) In the Sermon on the Mount Jesus calls us to be peacemakers by saying “Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called Children of God”; (Matthew 5:9 NSRV)
WHEREAS: An increase in the incidence of handgun violence has occurred in recent years, with the attendant result of increased deaths. According to Law Enforcement’s Uniform Crime Reports, in the year 2007 in the Central Pa. Conference the murder rate (expressed in per 100,000) in some of 8 our larger cities is as follows: Harrisburg 21.0, York 3.07, Williamsport 3.3, and Columbia 6.31 and, The overall rate for Pennsylvania is 6.2; and
WHEREAS: The Commonwealth’s existing gun laws make multiple handgun purchases easy and cheap encouraging the illegal trade in handguns. According to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF), the enabling factor in the illegal handgun distribution system in our Commonwealth
is “straw purchasing” of handguns in bulk by eligible individuals who are, in fact, stand-ins for prohibited felons who traffic in guns. They then sell to drug dealers, violent teens, and gang members; and WHEREAS: Statistics provided by the (ATF) Crime Gun Trace Analysis indicate that 76% of the guns used in the commission of a crime in Philadelphia were originally legally purchased within the
Commonwealth. However, nearly 87% of that total were not at the time of the commission of the crime in the hands of the original legal purchaser of that weapon; and
WHEREAS: By limiting purchases to no more than one handgun in a 30-day period, legislation would disrupt straw purchases and seriously decrease the number of handguns available to the
criminal element for use in violent criminal purposes. Reducing the supply would also reduce the incidence of handgun injury and death within the Central Pa. Conference. Substantial evidence shows that these laws effectively reduce illegal handgun trafficking without negative impact on lawful gun commerce.
WHEREAS: a recent survey, by Greenberg Research, demonstrated that most Pennsylvanians (70%) support enactment of a One Handgun A Month law, and almost all Pennsylvanians (96%) support a law to require the reporting of lost or stolen handguns.
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED: That the congregations in the Central Pa. Conference call upon the House and Senate Judiciary Committee Chairs as well as Governor Rendell to enact and sign legislation to place limits on the purchase of handguns by individuals; require
reporting of lost or stolen handguns and track registrations; and BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED: That the Board of Church and Society request that the
Conference Secretary communicate this resolution to Governor Rendell and Judiciary Chairs; and BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED: That the Board of Church and Society be empowered to form a fully-diverse taskforce to work in coordination with other groups vigorously and continually towards enactment of the aforesaid One-Handgun-a-Month legislation until such time as it is signed into law; AND FINALLY, BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED: That the Eastern Pa. Conference of The United Methodist Church encourage the aforementioned taskforce to provide educational materials and resources to congregations in its jurisdiction. These materials should provide information on 1.) the gun violence epidemic, 2.) the causes and affects of readily accessible guns, 3.) how the One-Handgun-a-Month legislation will reduce the supply and the number of handgun deaths, 4.) and finally, afford them a mechanism to use their voices to seek enactment of said legislation, corporately and individually.
Person Responsible for Presenting Resolution: Rev. David Tatgenhorst
_______________________________________________

Now: THERE is some cause for concern among all you "separation of Church and State" folks.
 
oh no, evil guns
panic.gif
 
(5) support federal legislation to regulate the importation, manufacturing, sale, and possession of guns and ammunition by the general public. Such legislation should include provisions for the registration and licensing of gun purchasers and owners, appropriate background investigation and waiting periods prior to gun purchase, and regulation of subsequent sale;

(6) call upon all governments of the world in which there is a United Methodist presence to establish national bans on ownership by the general public of handguns, assault weapons, automatic weapon conversion kits, and weapons that cannot be detected by traditionally used metal-detection devices;

These are the two biggies in that.

I've seen a bumper sticker that says "You can't be both Catholic and pro-choice", which makes sense. Maybe one that says "You can't be both Methodist and pro-gun" would get more people over to the baptist church.
 

Tim L

Senior Member
Well as a member of the UMC I can truthfully say, it's no secret that there is a wide span between some of the more liberal factions in our church and the more conservative ones. But I also believe that is more of an urban church vs rural church than a theological issue. But to be truthful, I also think most of us in the UMC are not that political at all. Think back to the 1950's and 1960's. How many of you remember folks in church spending too much time worrying about politics one way or another. You seldom heard about it then because when you considered what was really important; where a person is going to spend eternity, where your brother and sister is going to spend eternity, well politics don't mean jack crap one way or the other...For the most part, it's still that way in the UMC today. There are always going to be exceptions; we have our share of flaming liberals and our share of arch conservatives. But for the most part, we concentrate on the important things (seving the lord Jesus Christ the best we can and trying to save the lost
 
Well as a member of the UMC I can truthfully say, it's no secret that there is a wide span between some of the more liberal factions in our church and the more conservative ones. But I also believe that is more of an urban church vs rural church than a theological issue. But to be truthful, I also think most of us in the UMC are not that political at all. Think back to the 1950's and 1960's. How many of you remember folks in church spending too much time worrying about politics one way or another. You seldom heard about it then because when you considered what was really important; where a person is going to spend eternity, where your brother and sister is going to spend eternity, well politics don't mean jack crap one way or the other...For the most part, it's still that way in the UMC today. There are always going to be exceptions; we have our share of flaming liberals and our share of arch conservatives. But for the most part, we concentrate on the important things (seving the lord Jesus Christ the best we can and trying to save the lost

That's how I remember when I attended a UMC. Of course, how members conduct themselves and why they go are irrelevant. Liberal, conservative, rural, urban, none of that matters. What does matter is you (I'm guessing) donate money and it goes to support groups that want to disarm you. If that's your ideology, so be it. If not, you might want to reconsider your donations/tithes/gifts.

Here's an idea - attend the same UMC and just give the preacher money directly or drop Lowe's gift cards in the offering plate.
 

Ronnie T

Ol' Retired Mod
This is just my personal position of this so here goes..........

I believe the church needs to keep it's nose in God's word and keep it's nose out of the gun control issue.
 

Jeffriesw

Senior Member
This is just my personal position of this so here goes..........

I believe the church needs to keep it's nose in God's word and keep it's nose out of the gun control issue.

X's 3

I don not belong to the UMC, but if I did I would have to reconsider giving any type of money wether, thithes or offerings. Just not sure I would want any money I had given to the Church presumably for the work of the kingdom going to a PAC or political group or either side of the aisle..
 

centerpin fan

Senior Member
there is a wide span between some of the more liberal factions in our church and the more conservative ones. But I also believe that is more of an urban church vs rural church than a theological issue.


In most mainline denominations, the hierarchy tends to be quite a bit more liberal than the typical "man in the pew". That may have something to do with it as well.
 

centerpin fan

Senior Member
I believe the church needs to keep it's nose in God's word and keep it's nose out of the gun control issue.


The former is definitely more important, but I don't think they're mutually exclusive. My church has a very active Right to Life chapter precisely because we keep our noses in the word.
 

Tim L

Senior Member
That's how I remember when I attended a UMC. Of course, how members conduct themselves and why they go are irrelevant. Liberal, conservative, rural, urban, none of that matters. What does matter is you (I'm guessing) donate money and it goes to support groups that want to disarm you. If that's your ideology, so be it. If not, you might want to reconsider your donations/tithes/gifts.

Here's an idea - attend the same UMC and just give the preacher money directly or drop Lowe's gift cards in the offering plate.

To be honest, the great majority of our funds go to building expansion, clery salaries, and missions. Our church supports missions in Honderous, Africa, one in Siberia, one in France, along with prison ministries, the men on a mission ministry, Trinity Soup Kitchen, et al. Those are just the ones I'm aware of. In any case, I think its a mistake when anyone starts expressing negative opinions about any denomenation that they are not members of because most of the time they either have their facts wrong, something is taken out of context, or the motivation for bringing something up is spiteful. Take your pick of denomenations and a person could have a field day if they want. But sadly, in most cases the seed for those ideas come from below, but above.
 

Ronnie T

Ol' Retired Mod
The former is definitely more important, but I don't think they're mutually exclusive. My church has a very active Right to Life chapter precisely because we keep our noses in the word.

Right to life is certainly a church and Christian issue.
But whether weapons should be registered is not a church issue.
Maybe it's an individual Christian issue, dependant upon how one feels, but not the church.
 

Ronnie T

Ol' Retired Mod
To be honest, the great majority of our funds go to building expansion, clery salaries, and missions. Our church supports missions in Honderous, Africa, one in Siberia, one in France, along with prison ministries, the men on a mission ministry, Trinity Soup Kitchen, et al. Those are just the ones I'm aware of. In any case, I think its a mistake when anyone starts expressing negative opinions about any denomenation that they are not members of because most of the time they either have their facts wrong, something is taken out of context, or the motivation for bringing something up is spiteful. Take your pick of denomenations and a person could have a field day if they want. But sadly, in most cases the seed for those ideas come from below, but above.

Well, they can close this forum down!:huh:
 

rjcruiser

Senior Member
Right to life is certainly a church and Christian issue.
But whether weapons should be registered is not a church issue.
Maybe it's an individual Christian issue, dependant upon how one feels, but not the church.

But as you start to restrict the rights given to us in the constitution, doesn't that start to infringe on our religious rights as well?

It starts with gun control...then it is going to be religious control.

I think as Christians, we need to be heavily involved in the politics of the day. Right to life, right to worship, right to own a gun. They are just stepping stones in the left's desire to control the masses.
 
To be honest, the great majority of our funds go to building expansion, clery salaries, and missions. Our church supports missions in Honderous, Africa, one in Siberia, one in France, along with prison ministries, the men on a mission ministry, Trinity Soup Kitchen, et al. Those are just the ones I'm aware of. In any case, I think its a mistake when anyone starts expressing negative opinions about any denomenation that they are not members of because most of the time they either have their facts wrong, something is taken out of context, or the motivation for bringing something up is spiteful. Take your pick of denomenations and a person could have a field day if they want. But sadly, in most cases the seed for those ideas come from below, but above.

It's just the UMC's official stance. No big deal. Oh yeah, I'm still a member officially. Guess you assumed incorrectly.

Go to this link and scroll down to see their list of resources and links to news articles. There you'll find the UMC actively involved in stupid stuff like the Million Mom March. Don't miss the link to the Brady Campaign either.

Hey if everybody quits going to UMC's, they'll quit supporting such efforts.
 

Ronnie T

Ol' Retired Mod
But as you start to restrict the rights given to us in the constitution, doesn't that start to infringe on our religious rights as well?
Yes it certainly could

It starts with gun control...then it is going to be religious control.
I'm not so sure there's much of a link between the two

I think as Christians, we need to be heavily involved in the politics of the day.I totally agree Right to life, right to worship, right to own a gun.Again, I agree They are just stepping stones in the left's desire to control the masses.


But I believe that some Christians should have the right to be "for" gun control........ and others, like me, have the right to be "against" gun control. The church proper should not take a stand.

Abortion would be a total different story.

I'm against gun control, but I'll bet the Christians living in Iraq wish that country had gun control.
 

Tim L

Senior Member
But I believe that some Christians should have the right to be "for" gun control........ and others, like me, have the right to be "against" gun control. The church proper should not take a stand.

Abortion would be a total different story.

I'm against gun control, but I'll bet the Christians living in Iraq wish that country had gun control.

Good points
 
X's 3

I don not belong to the UMC, but if I did I would have to reconsider giving any type of money wether, thithes or offerings. Just not sure I would want any money I had given to the Church presumably for the work of the kingdom going to a PAC or political group or either side of the aisle..

That reminds me - I don't see how they can keep tax-exempt status dabbling in a political issue like this.
 
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