Can't get head off

[1gr8bldr]

My 1965 Fordson Super Dexta, basically the same thing as a Massey 135, has been sitting for three years. The last time I used it, it started half running as if on 2 cylinders. I have crunk it since by pulling it off, but it runs like a gallop. I rebuilt the injector pump, retimed it twice, so I think this is not the problem. I expect something with the valves or a hole in one piston? Trying to get the head off today doing exploratory surgery.... I can't get the head off. All bolts are removed. Any tricks? Scared to hit it to hard. I have attempted to use a chisel, using the wedge shape to lift, trying to drive it into those areas that have excess metal, beyond the head gasket, but this is not working.

 

[1gr8bldr]

Had to quit. I was about to lose it. And things get broken for good when that happens. I used my skid steer to lift the tractor, all the weight of the front of the tractor was on the motor lift brackets that connect only to the head. With this weight, I was sure the wedge would take it off. That's alot of pressure. But it would not give. So, I kept lift it 5 ft and dropping it 4 feet, all the force going to lifting the head off..... and it did not budge.

 

[Crakajak]

Maybe take the oil pan off an look from underneath to see if a piston is cracked or has a hole in it? Did you check compression before taking it apart?

 

[Artfuldodger]

No help from me. I like that you said "crunk." My wife gives me a hard time for saying that.
Anyway I noticed that engine has 14 cylinder head studs. I'm assuming you removed 14 nuts?

I was wondering if you could use compressed air some sort of way. I'm not sure on that engine. I did read this on a different engine;

"compressed air down the injector hole ?"

https://www.redpowermagazine.com/forums/topic/73396-head-wont-separate-from-block/

They keep asking the guy how many nuts he removed. Kinda what I was getting at. Good luck!

 

[Artfuldodger]

On that forum a person thought the studs may be rusted to the head. They were then suggesting trying to remove the studs with double nuts or weld the nuts to the studs.

In this video I counted 15 studs;

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[Crakajak]

On that forum a person thought the studs may be rusted to the head. They were then suggesting trying to remove the studs with double nuts or weld the nuts to the studs.

I was thinking it might have alignment pins that are rusted together

 

[Crakajak]

Artful dodger,I read this and nearly killed my computer with coffee.
when i was a kid my dad had a irrigation well drilled and the welder man out working on the rig had a wisconsin engine that he flooded and dad said to take the plugs out and light a match at the plug holes and he said no he would put some accetelene in the carb and he did and dad had grandpa, hired man and i stand back and he cranked it over about 2 turns and it blew the head, carbuetor and intake off and it went over the fence and landed in the water at the lake about 100 ft away. he waded out and got the parts and threw it in the back of the truck and went to town.
I would not try accetelene but it sure worked good that time

 

[1gr8bldr]

Dang, do I feel stupid. Looking at the video, I see that the injector bolts go through the head rather than into the head. Dang, Thanks ART

 

[Artfuldodger]

Dang, do I feel stupid. Looking at the video, I see that the injector bolts go through the head rather than into the head. Dang, Thanks ART

Is that the bolts that look like they go through a hole or cavity in the head?
There is no telling how much stuff I've tried to take apart with nuts or retaining clips still holding it together. Such as U-joints without removing all the clips.

 

[Artfuldodger]

Artful dodger,I read this and nearly killed my computer with coffee.
when i was a kid my dad had a irrigation well drilled and the welder man out working on the rig had a wisconsin engine that he flooded and dad said to take the plugs out and light a match at the plug holes and he said no he would put some accetelene in the carb and he did and dad had grandpa, hired man and i stand back and he cranked it over about 2 turns and it blew the head, carbuetor and intake off and it went over the fence and landed in the water at the lake about 100 ft away. he waded out and got the parts and threw it in the back of the truck and went to town.
I would not try accetelene but it sure worked good that time

Yeah, I thought that was funny. I've read about people doing all kinds of tricks with acetylene, lighter fluid, etc.

One time we couldn't get some packing out of a pump shaft gland so we turned the water back on. In a few seconds it blew the packing clean across the equipment room about 50 feet away.
That was just water. Lucky we weren't standing in the way.

 

[1gr8bldr]

So, I can't believe I did not think of the injector studs going all the way through. It's been about 12 years since I rebuilt the tractor, but I should have remembered buying a stud extractor for those bolts when I took it all the way down. Looks like I have a head gasket leak between two adjoining cylinders

 

[1gr8bldr]

I do love pulling a dbl turn plow with that old gal. Like everything I do, I made a science out of it. I kept adjusting until I can turn loose of the front wheel and she will stay on track, rolling over perfect.

 

[1gr8bldr]

Blown head gasket

 

[NE GA Pappy]

I would check that head to make sure it is flat before you put it back on. A good straight edge and feeler gauges will work. Make sure it is a ground straight edge, not a hunk of steel you found laying in the shop floor.

If it were mine, I wouldn't put the head back on without grinding the valves and putting new valve stem seals on it.

 

[1gr8bldr]

I would check that head to make sure it is flat before you put it back on. A good straight edge and feeler gauges will work. Make sure it is a ground straight edge, not a hunk of steel you found laying in the shop floor.

If it were mine, I wouldn't put the head back on without grinding the valves and putting new valve stem seals on it.

I had the head rebuilt back 12 years ago when I rebuilt the entire tractor. And probably only have 50 hours on it since. I just don't use a tractor much. My skidsteer has air conditioning so I do most of my stuff with it. So, would you still recommend a valve job considering this?

 

[NE GA Pappy]

I would. More important than grinding the valves, are the valve stem seals. It is cheap and easy to do while you have the head off. More importantly, check that head to make sure it is flat. Something happened to let it start bypassing and blow that head gasket. Either the head bolts backed off, weren't torqued right to start with, or the block/head are warped.

 

[1gr8bldr]

Wish it still looked like it did when I finished with it

 

[GoldDot40]

I would. More important than grinding the valves, are the valve stem seals. It is cheap and easy to do while you have the head off. More importantly, check that head to make sure it is flat. Something happened to let it start bypassing and blow that head gasket. Either the head bolts backed off, weren't torqued right to start with, or the block/head are warped.

Ditto...word for word.

 

[1gr8bldr]

How concerned should I be.... Cleaning this block off to accept the head, I keep getting trash falling into my water jackets and oil openings? I assume I will replace those fluids however, that assumes it will flow out??? when drained. And how perfect must the block be? I have removed all the studs but cleaning the block is going to require some grit, and I don't like the idea of possibly removing metal or scratches

 

[1gr8bldr]

I have it really clean now. A razor blade and brake cleaner followed by a 1000 grit sand paper. My concern now is that the piston liner on the side that blowed is higher than the others? I don't know if this means anything or not? It looks although likely is not, higher than the block deck where the other two are almost 1/8 lower than the block deck height. [my terminology may be wrong]