Christianity declining in the west

[ambush80]

Isn't it already apparent to see that the world is unraveling? It doesn't take a sophisticated study or an opinion of an "expert". Just look around. Follow the news. It's evident.

Get this book from your library:

https://stevenpinker.com/publications/enlightenment-now-case-reason-science-humanism-and-progress

 

[atlashunter]

Just came across this today.

What he describes starting at the 11:40 mark is something I would hope for. I don’t think we are moving in that direction though. What would it take to get there?

 

[SemperFiDawg]

Think most of us are aware that Christianity is in decline in the west and by west I mean europe and the countries settled by Europeans. Is this a good thing? What does it mean for the future? What will it take for it to be on balance a positive rather than a negative change? Christianity has been the glue that held western nations together and helped give them identity and purpose for almost two thousand years. What should replace that?

Dunno if you read Mark Steyn, but I suspect that you're familiar with the name. Good reads. Scary outlook, but nature DOES abhor a vacuum. People WILL believe in something. That much is self evident. A very famous and wise man once said you should never take down a fence until you understand why it was put up. As far as Christianity goes, the fence is almost completely disassembled here in the West, due to both external and internal forces. I'm not sure history provides an example of what happens when secularism replaces Christianity as the guiding force of a culture.

 

[atlashunter]

Dunno if you read Mark Steyn, but I suspect that you're familiar with the name. Good reads. Scary outlook, but nature DOES abhor a vacuum. People WILL believe in something. That much is self evident. A very famous and wise man once said you should never take down a fence until you understand why it was put up. As far as Christianity goes, the fence is almost completely disassembled here in the West, due to both external and internal forces. I'm not sure history provides an example of what happens when secularism replaces Christianity as the guiding force of a culture.

Not familiar with him but I will take a look.

 

[RegularJoe]

Think most of us are aware that Christianity is in decline in the west and by west I mean europe and the countries settled by Europeans.

Is this a good thing? (1)

What does it mean for the future? (2)

What will it take for it to be on balance a positive rather than a negative change? (3)

Christianity has been the glue that held western nations together and helped give them identity and purpose for almost two thousand years. What should replace that? (4)

Yes/concur.
My thoughts by "(#)." -
(1) Nope. How come I say 'no?' I say 'no' cause I dig the civil part of civilization ... If enough folks within 'the west' do not adequately subscribe to a given moral code (whatever it may be; from whatever source) then it just makes sense that 'the west' will move to a status of less overall agreement and unity, which probably then extends to less civil-ity. Hence a degradation in civil-ization.
(2) If my comment above is adequately correct then western civil-ization is on a path toward probably less civil-ity.
(3) If Christianity is going to atrophy-out as a general influence then there needs to be the introduction of some kind of a moral code * that is willingly embraced by enough of a quantity of folks to be generally influential. It makes sense to me that influential is not enough, though .... at the same time it needs to be a 'moral code' that is implementable in a manner that is willingly endurable by the others who do not wish to embrace it. E.g., Authoritarianism or even a theocracy is influential, though not willingly very endurable ** for the non-adherents ... which then eventually/usually leads to civil unrest, etc., etc., etc. Then we are back to civil discord.
(4) While I can clearly see that in 'the west' Christianity is in decllne, I do not see a more functional moral code available to replace it. Thus, for me, the answer to your question is that Christianity should not be replaced. Further thought by me, though this is beyond your specific question: (4.a.) Meanwhile, and consistent with what is repeatedly Biblically reported, Christianity works for some and should not be expected to work for all .... it is to be rejected by many ... at this time for 'the west,' that many is growing and growing and growing ... and, most of those many do not find Christianity at all ** endurable.

Important acknowledgement: It is I that is saying that the core loss is * 'moral code.' I fully recognize : ) that you have not said above that 'moral code' is the loss (you may or may not concur that 'moral code' is part of the mix, of course). I simply wish to acknowledge that what you have stated as what is at risk of loss is "identity and purpose."
- Thank you for your thought prompting orignal post.

 

[atlashunter]

Yes/concur.
My thoughts by "(#)." -
(1) Nope. How come I say 'no?' I say 'no' cause I dig the civil part of civilization ... If enough folks within 'the west' do not adequately subscribe to a given moral code (whatever it may be; from whatever source) then it just makes sense that 'the west' will move to a status of less overall agreement and unity, which probably then extends to less civil-ity. Hence a degradation in civil-ization.
(2) If my comment above is adequately correct then western civil-ization is on a path toward probably less civil-ity.
(3) If Christianity is going to atrophy-out as a general influence then there needs to be the introduction of some kind of a moral code * that is willingly embraced by enough of a quantity of folks to be generally influential. It makes sense to me that influential is not enough, though .... at the same time it needs to be a 'moral code' that is implementable in a manner that is willingly endurable by the others who do not wish to embrace it. E.g., Authoritarianism or even a theocracy is influential, though not willingly very endurable ** for the non-adherents ... which then eventually/usually leads to civil unrest, etc., etc., etc. Then we are back to civil discord.
(4) While I can clearly see that in 'the west' Christianity is in decllne, I do not see a more functional moral code available to replace it. Thus, for me, the answer to your question is that Christianity should not be replaced. Further thought by me, though this is beyond your specific question: (4.a.) Meanwhile, and consistent with what is repeatedly Biblically reported, Christianity works for some and should not be expected to work for all .... it is to be rejected by many ... at this time for 'the west,' that many is growing and growing and growing ... and, most of those many do not find Christianity at all ** endurable.

Important acknowledgement: It is I that is saying that the core loss is * 'moral code.' I fully recognize : ) that you have not said above that 'moral code' is the loss (you may or may not concur that 'moral code' is part of the mix, of course). I simply wish to acknowledge that what you have stated as what is at risk of loss is "identity and purpose."
- Thank you for your thought prompting orignal post.

I think we are generally thinking along the same lines. I can't recall who said it now but it was in a talk between Douglas Murray, Jordan Peterson, and Sam Harris they said the problem is "we know too much" in the west to go back to christian faith. The vacuum is coming. In western europe it's already here. With respect to the decline of christianity I think the genie is already out of the bottle and there is no going back. Maybe some answers are to be found in looking to the foundations of western civilization that predate the adoption of christianity?

 

[RegularJoe]

... The vacuum is coming
... Maybe some answers are to be found in looking to the foundations of western civilization that predate the adoption of christianity?

Re., 'vaccum' .... I just wanna 'be ready.'
Re., 'pre-Christianity' times, as in, just before Christianity started taking hold
(you may be referring to times all the way back to when ever the start was)....
As just a completely layperson historian, what I think I have learned about those times just before, is that they were pretty much in a stage of rack 'n ruin. For me to learn more it'd probably be good for me to sit down and finally read The Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire ?

 

[WaltL1]

"Up (up, up, up, up)
And down (down, down, down, down)
And in the end it's only round 'n round (round, round, round)"

Pink Floyd-Us and Them

I really think that's what it all boils down to ^
Cultures, religions, everything... dominate now, decline then, replaced by this, that gets replaced by something else, round and round we go.

 

[PopPop]

That’s like asking what someone with a mustache would do. There is no moral code that goes with atheism. It is amoral. You can be good or bad and still be an atheist. I think Christianity in many respects is immoral but it does have good teachings mixed in. You can pick the pepper from the gnat dung so to speak which is what most Christians do. The question I’m posing is what do you work with once you toss out the whole pile. I think we can do better than what religion offers but I’m not at all convinced that people in the macro scale will do better especially without some structured framework like religion offers. It’s also possible that the West gets taken over by Islam in the absence of the unifying force of Christianity.

I think Islam will fill the void. They are pushy like that.

 

[atlashunter]

I think Islam will fill the void. They are pushy like that.

That would be tragic but you may be right. Only upside to that would be to watch the feminazi's get what they deserve.

 

[bobocat]

That would be tragic but you may be right. Only upside to that would be to watch the feminazi's get what they deserve.

You may not get to watch the upside if it is to spread like Christianity did . It seems to me that it would be convert or die. And it doesnt sound like you would be a willing follower of allah.