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GeauxLSU
Senior Member
The animals did it...
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=578&e=1&u=/nm/20040921/ts_nm/iraq_dc
Spineless, godless, cowards!
Hunt/fish safely,
Phil
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=578&e=1&u=/nm/20040921/ts_nm/iraq_dc
Spineless, godless, cowards!
Hunt/fish safely,
Phil
GeauxLSU
Senior Member
Apparently most of the atrocities aren't committed by Iraqi's. Primarily scum from across the borders looking for a free for all. Truly the lowest form of human.Guy said:
But you are correct. There will be some misdirected retaliation. But not much. This will be a 'blip' on the news tonight and quickly forgotten. As a matter of fact, I'm betting that in 48 hours, you will find it mentioned on any network (unless they hold the vidoe for a day or two then it will get another 'blip'.) Part of me says good, don't give them the coverage they want but the other part of me says, as a nation, I just don't think we have the stomach or backbone to care about it. That is truly the saddest thing of all...
Hunt/fish safely,
Phil
matthewsman
Senior Member
hate to hear it
God bless him and his family.........Somebody smarter than I may be able to post a link to last weeks TIME arcticle speaking of muslims and the koran's views on war and violence .I'm no scholar of Islam,but the gist of the arcticle was that in a war one should not engage women,children,hermits and the farmer(worker)in the field.Only the ones that raise up a weapon against them should be engaged.The arcticle spoke of the fundemental groups self-educating themselves by taking parts of the koran out of context.I don't think of U.S.A. as God but there is a lot to be said for identifying and removing our enemies,similar to Sodom and Gomorrah.Tell them to seperate and come out of Fallujah or whatever city ,neighborhood ,or mosque they're hiding in.If you're innocent,come out ,don't look back(pillar of salt)then we flatten whatever or whomever remains after the warning.Get ugly enough and they will unball their fist.Hiroshima?never forgot the picture of the burnt fleshed female in the street.Sherman burned Atl.never forgotton.We need to forget the hand to hand ,man to man ,business and use the dogs that bark over here and bite over there.Ugly enough and violent enough and they will spend time picking their relatives up off the street,trying to find water and food.this should keep them busy enough to not be spending time decapitating,kidnapping, buying, and selling innocent people.Better them picking up their dead than us continuing picking up ours.BTW saw somewhere that the fuel truck driver/ex-farmer from Mississippi that escaped from his captors was only making 15$an hour,can someone verify?Again much love to his family and all others that meet with this sensless,tragic end.
God bless him and his family.........Somebody smarter than I may be able to post a link to last weeks TIME arcticle speaking of muslims and the koran's views on war and violence .I'm no scholar of Islam,but the gist of the arcticle was that in a war one should not engage women,children,hermits and the farmer(worker)in the field.Only the ones that raise up a weapon against them should be engaged.The arcticle spoke of the fundemental groups self-educating themselves by taking parts of the koran out of context.I don't think of U.S.A. as God but there is a lot to be said for identifying and removing our enemies,similar to Sodom and Gomorrah.Tell them to seperate and come out of Fallujah or whatever city ,neighborhood ,or mosque they're hiding in.If you're innocent,come out ,don't look back(pillar of salt)then we flatten whatever or whomever remains after the warning.Get ugly enough and they will unball their fist.Hiroshima?never forgot the picture of the burnt fleshed female in the street.Sherman burned Atl.never forgotton.We need to forget the hand to hand ,man to man ,business and use the dogs that bark over here and bite over there.Ugly enough and violent enough and they will spend time picking their relatives up off the street,trying to find water and food.this should keep them busy enough to not be spending time decapitating,kidnapping, buying, and selling innocent people.Better them picking up their dead than us continuing picking up ours.BTW saw somewhere that the fuel truck driver/ex-farmer from Mississippi that escaped from his captors was only making 15$an hour,can someone verify?Again much love to his family and all others that meet with this sensless,tragic end.
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loouuii
Guest
Hostages
My son went over to work for KBR (Haliburton). They were all made aware of the dangers and told how to avoid any trouble. I'm sure that most all of them were breifed before going over.
As for the money, the only thing that makes it good is because of the hours they work over there. My son worked 12 hours a day, seven days a week. Had he stayed the course he would have cleared $80,000.00 tax free. He was being paid 15.00/hr.
My son went over to work for KBR (Haliburton). They were all made aware of the dangers and told how to avoid any trouble. I'm sure that most all of them were breifed before going over.
As for the money, the only thing that makes it good is because of the hours they work over there. My son worked 12 hours a day, seven days a week. Had he stayed the course he would have cleared $80,000.00 tax free. He was being paid 15.00/hr.
Meriwether Mike
Senior Member
Anyone who would tie an innocent person up and behead them will surely burn in ****! I say lets help to get them an early appointment to burn!!!! 
TurkeyCreek
Senior Member
should U.S. cilvilians be over there in the first place??? maybe, maybe not..
but the gameplan from the start was to help re-build the country after saddam was taken out of power.
you can't say that everyone over there is just there to "get rich quick".
i have a friend and former co-worker who had been without a job for over a year and he took a job over there and is still there. yeah, he and all the others knew the risks involved but that certainly doesn't make what these barbarians are doing any less disgusting. to be tortured and be-headed like that is just sickening.
i am afraid that we are going to have to send in more ground troops to clean up that place and that is going to mean more U.S. bodies.
Yes..i feel sorry for these men and their families...and will continue to pray for them.
but the gameplan from the start was to help re-build the country after saddam was taken out of power.
you can't say that everyone over there is just there to "get rich quick".
i have a friend and former co-worker who had been without a job for over a year and he took a job over there and is still there. yeah, he and all the others knew the risks involved but that certainly doesn't make what these barbarians are doing any less disgusting. to be tortured and be-headed like that is just sickening.
i am afraid that we are going to have to send in more ground troops to clean up that place and that is going to mean more U.S. bodies.
Yes..i feel sorry for these men and their families...and will continue to pray for them.
How2fish
Senior Member
I started to reply twice and had to delete my posts...doesn't matter a darn bit why or what they are doing there. Fact is these animals want to scare us and our families in seeking short term "safety" by doing as they say..for "assurances" they will no longer attack us. **** they will and if we don't kill them 1st they will find ways to kill more of us. I read a lot of history and am amazed all the time a how little different folks acted "back then"..the only people who have EVER beat these types of ******* is to be more ruthless than they are. Period. We are in a struggle that either we win or die as a nation...maybe no next year or the next decade but soon...watch the French...they are now 20% Muslim within the next 10 years and maybe as soon as 5 they will quit being a "Western" nation. I pray for the hostages to be release or avenged..Sorry I'm a old time eye for a eyer from the hills. We need to make these animals who clamly behead our countrymen..die and if we can't make those who support them do so....
specialk
Senior Member
what browningwsm7 said.......the war on terror is like the war on drugs, it can never be truly won....we can slow it down and put a small handle on it but both will go on till the end of time............
It's truly a frightening thing. These people are ANIMALS. Whether or not someone went to work there or not. These were NOT soldiers.
THERE is a law for wartime. I know we screwed up with the prison scandal. However, there was a handful or two of soldiers that really made the wrong decision. But , this has really gone too far.
You know, while I am sitting here thinking of my next hunt and encounter with a my dream trophy buck, people are getting killed. I really wish I could do more.
I read an article today about some military people in Iraq who have come out and said we shouldn't be there!! WHAT??? YOu joined now do the job that is expected of you and shut up.
My best friend in the world is a 6'6" EX Navy Seal. He signed up to be in the forces. He could not fathom these soldiers who talked of not wanting to fight this war. Afetr 911 EVERYTHING has changed. No longer can we trust ANYONE.
Sorry for the rant. But I had to type away my fustration.
NOW, someone take me Dove hunting Please! I need to kill something. Besides, I have heard they are delicious!
THERE is a law for wartime. I know we screwed up with the prison scandal. However, there was a handful or two of soldiers that really made the wrong decision. But , this has really gone too far.
You know, while I am sitting here thinking of my next hunt and encounter with a my dream trophy buck, people are getting killed. I really wish I could do more.
I read an article today about some military people in Iraq who have come out and said we shouldn't be there!! WHAT??? YOu joined now do the job that is expected of you and shut up.
My best friend in the world is a 6'6" EX Navy Seal. He signed up to be in the forces. He could not fathom these soldiers who talked of not wanting to fight this war. Afetr 911 EVERYTHING has changed. No longer can we trust ANYONE.
Sorry for the rant. But I had to type away my fustration.
NOW, someone take me Dove hunting Please! I need to kill something. Besides, I have heard they are delicious!
limbhanger
Senior Member
Hostages
WHAT IS TROUBLING IS THAT THESE PEOPLE ARE JUSTIFIYING THEIR ACTIONS WITH GODS WILL. IT ANGERS ME TO SEE AMERICANS TREATED IN SUCH A BRUTAL WAY. THESE MEN WERE MERELY TRYING TO PROVIDE FOR THIER FAMILIES. I HAVE MIXED FELLINGS ABOUT HOW THESE PEOPLE SHOULD BE TREATED. THEY WILL EACH ANSWER TO GOD ALL MIGHTY ONE DAY. I WOULD LIKE TO BE A FLY ON THE WALL WHEN THEY TRY TO JUSTIFY THEIR ACTIONS TO THE LORD. I KNOW WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO DO... GOD BLESS THE FAMILIES OF THESE GENTLEMEN AND GOD BLESS GEORGE BUSH...
WHAT IS TROUBLING IS THAT THESE PEOPLE ARE JUSTIFIYING THEIR ACTIONS WITH GODS WILL. IT ANGERS ME TO SEE AMERICANS TREATED IN SUCH A BRUTAL WAY. THESE MEN WERE MERELY TRYING TO PROVIDE FOR THIER FAMILIES. I HAVE MIXED FELLINGS ABOUT HOW THESE PEOPLE SHOULD BE TREATED. THEY WILL EACH ANSWER TO GOD ALL MIGHTY ONE DAY. I WOULD LIKE TO BE A FLY ON THE WALL WHEN THEY TRY TO JUSTIFY THEIR ACTIONS TO THE LORD. I KNOW WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO DO... GOD BLESS THE FAMILIES OF THESE GENTLEMEN AND GOD BLESS GEORGE BUSH...
GeauxLSU
Senior Member
We do not have the stomach for it.
What did these captors want? They wanted the release of their 'women prisoners'. Do you know who those women prisoners were? Germ warfare scientists. One an Anthrax specialist. Ok, if they wanted their women back, then give them back, beheaded! Send AL JAZEERA the video and dump their bodies in the street. So, who reading this has the stomach to behead two women? I doubt I could. Who reading this cringed when they just read it? (It was sort of hard to type.) You see, that's why this will never stop.
THAT type of response is the only thing that will 'register'. We have hundreds (thousands?) of them in prison. It's very simple, the next time you murder an American, we will publicly execute in the same manner TEN of your cohorts, and if your demand was for the release of specific individuals, they will be executed first. The next time you do it, we will execute 100 for each American murdererd. How long would it be before they get two brain cells working and figure out they need to try a different tact? Of course the 'civilized' world would pitch a fit and at home we'd be accused of being 'no better than they are'. Well heaven forbid we have to listen to some whinning from overseas or at home and in the process SAVE SOME LIVES!!!!
I mean, we have the Geneva convention and all.
We are out of our league. Maybe above it, but we are out of it nonetheless and we are not willing to fight the fight they are bringing to us. It's like trying to play flag football and the other team is playing rugby and we can't figure out why we haven't 'won' yet.
Face it. Right or wrong, we as a country are too 'soft' to fight the war that is needed.
Hunt/fish safely,
Phil
What did these captors want? They wanted the release of their 'women prisoners'. Do you know who those women prisoners were? Germ warfare scientists. One an Anthrax specialist. Ok, if they wanted their women back, then give them back, beheaded! Send AL JAZEERA the video and dump their bodies in the street. So, who reading this has the stomach to behead two women? I doubt I could. Who reading this cringed when they just read it? (It was sort of hard to type.) You see, that's why this will never stop.
THAT type of response is the only thing that will 'register'. We have hundreds (thousands?) of them in prison. It's very simple, the next time you murder an American, we will publicly execute in the same manner TEN of your cohorts, and if your demand was for the release of specific individuals, they will be executed first. The next time you do it, we will execute 100 for each American murdererd. How long would it be before they get two brain cells working and figure out they need to try a different tact? Of course the 'civilized' world would pitch a fit and at home we'd be accused of being 'no better than they are'. Well heaven forbid we have to listen to some whinning from overseas or at home and in the process SAVE SOME LIVES!!!!
I mean, we have the Geneva convention and all. We are out of our league. Maybe above it, but we are out of it nonetheless and we are not willing to fight the fight they are bringing to us. It's like trying to play flag football and the other team is playing rugby and we can't figure out why we haven't 'won' yet.
Face it. Right or wrong, we as a country are too 'soft' to fight the war that is needed.
Hunt/fish safely,
Phil
I agree with Phil. We need to even the playing field with these people. We can not win a war when we play by the rules and they do not. Reminds me of a saying, "All is fair in love and War". We are in a war. I also do belive that we are not barbarians as Phil metioned so what do you do? :
If this is going to stop though we are going to have to get tough and take the gloves off.
If this is going to stop though we are going to have to get tough and take the gloves off.
Randy
Senior Member
Don't think that beheading some of their people will change their mind! The only way to change their mind is to remove it! Take the gloves off and begin the bombing! We know "close" to where they are and bombs work when you know "close!"
GeauxLSU
Senior Member
Release of Woman prisoner.....
Randy,
I agree we will never change their minds. They will hate us and want to kill us long past our lifetimes. However, I do believe we can control their actions (big difference). Killing multiple prisoners everytime they kill one of us I do think would likely have them trying other tactics and quickly.
I absolutely can not believe they are considering this!!! http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...u=/nm/20040922/wl_nm/iraq_hostages_britain_dc How stupid can they be?!?! Watch the floodgates on kidnappings open now! Unreal.... :
Hunt/fish safely,
Phil
Randy,
I agree we will never change their minds. They will hate us and want to kill us long past our lifetimes. However, I do believe we can control their actions (big difference). Killing multiple prisoners everytime they kill one of us I do think would likely have them trying other tactics and quickly.
I absolutely can not believe they are considering this!!!
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...u=/nm/20040922/wl_nm/iraq_hostages_britain_dc How stupid can they be?!?! Watch the floodgates on kidnappings open now! Unreal.... : Hunt/fish safely,
Phil
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Lucky Chandler
Guest
Serious question
Phil,
I don't really disagree with anything you've posted in this thread, as amazing as that sounds.
My question is this: Pres. Bush is the CIC - isn't it his job, his responsibility, his ultimate decision as to the Rule of Engagement over there? Why, if he is the strong leader he claims to be, has he not authorized our troops to take the gloves off and kill, kill, kill, and keep killing until the other side begs for mercy? Fallujah should cease to exist, other than as some bombed out rubble; Najaf should be the same.
I'm with Randy - close counts if we use a big enough bomb ... time to drag out the MOABs and make things happen.
Phil,
I don't really disagree with anything you've posted in this thread, as amazing as that sounds.
My question is this: Pres. Bush is the CIC - isn't it his job, his responsibility, his ultimate decision as to the Rule of Engagement over there? Why, if he is the strong leader he claims to be, has he not authorized our troops to take the gloves off and kill, kill, kill, and keep killing until the other side begs for mercy? Fallujah should cease to exist, other than as some bombed out rubble; Najaf should be the same.
I'm with Randy - close counts if we use a big enough bomb ... time to drag out the MOABs and make things happen.
GeauxLSU
Senior Member
Lucky,
We just have so much common ground it makes me all misty eyed.
Realistically though, we know the international AND domestic community would never allow our president to do what must be done. That was the added point to my posts. As a supposed 'civilized country' we simply do NOT have the stomach for it. It is much easier for us to turn off the TV when the next American gets butchered for the world to see and go watch our kids play their next baseball game, than it would be to sleep at night if we were participating in the same activity. We are soft, spoiled and naive. We will always insist our President perpetuate that illusion because that validates it in our minds. And it's going to cost American lives. We don't care. At least our hands are clean(er) and that apparently makes us "feel better" about it. In the meantime more will die. Such is the cost of a clear conscious. I personally find it morally reprehensible and am not willing to pay that cost, which is exactly how others would feel if we changed our tactics.
Hunt/fish safely,
Phil
We just have so much common ground it makes me all misty eyed.
Realistically though, we know the international AND domestic community would never allow our president to do what must be done. That was the added point to my posts. As a supposed 'civilized country' we simply do NOT have the stomach for it. It is much easier for us to turn off the TV when the next American gets butchered for the world to see and go watch our kids play their next baseball game, than it would be to sleep at night if we were participating in the same activity. We are soft, spoiled and naive. We will always insist our President perpetuate that illusion because that validates it in our minds. And it's going to cost American lives. We don't care. At least our hands are clean(er) and that apparently makes us "feel better" about it. In the meantime more will die. Such is the cost of a clear conscious. I personally find it morally reprehensible and am not willing to pay that cost, which is exactly how others would feel if we changed our tactics.
Hunt/fish safely,
Phil
I agree with most of what Phil has said, too. Actually, Phil and I agree more frequently with him than I let on. I just don't tell him enough! Anyhow, I have to get my poke in there every once in awhile.
Because he plays flip-flop too! Lots of war and kick-rear rhetoric, but then chooses to fight a more a sensitive war, seeks cease-fires (as if these terrorists can be reasoned with!), withdraws from hot spots, and trys to play by the rules of engagement in a war where the enemy doesn't operate on rules, but uses the rules to its advantage, etc.Lucky Chandler said:
Maybe that is because the concern is more in favor of re-election than in favor of getting in their kicking tail and getting the job done. A person/leader who is concerned at getting the job done and as quickly as possible would do exactly what is needed even if it meant not getting re-elected because you stepped up to the plate with intestinal fortitude and a loaded bat not looking for a walk. Instead we play to sensitivity and as a result we have the current situtation and no reasonable end in sight that will result in what was promised because we lack the resolve to make the difficult call and do what is needed, not what is pleasantly expected. Sometimes you can take the lower road and still be on the high road.
GeauxLSU
Senior Member
Politics and controlling the Whitehouse
Guys,
No question politics (re-election) plays a big part, however I really don't think it is THE driving factor though certainly one. Though it's not realistic, for the sake of this discussion, try for a second to imagine a scenario where re-electability is not an issue. For example, let's just pretend our constitution MANDATED that after two terms the power in party could NOT run again for president (I know, ridiculous but bare with me).
So, let's pretend this was Bush's second term. No Republican could be running for November's election. Do you seriously think that would THEN allow him to do what needs to be done? Don't you think the outcry domestically and internationally would be such that it would simply never be allowed?
It is inconceivable to me that the 'civilized world' of which we proclaim to be a member, would ever allow that type of war to be fought.
I mean look at it. Annan is still pitching a fit over the prison scandal yet we continue to play by the rules. Why isn't he pitching a fit over the Oil for Food fiasco?? No doubt that resulted in MANY more lives being lost and much more gruesome atrocities than some pictures being taken! Those involved in the prison scandal are being tried and the 'civilized sytem' is running it's course. Why? Because it is CONTROLLE BY US! So why isn't the same justice being served in the much bigger crime, the oil for food scandal? Hmmmm? Why doesn't he get his rear and troops over to Iraq to stop the UNCIVILIZED activities that are going on by the terrorist? Because that's just too 'messy' and he'd be forced to make decisions that AGAIN, the civilized world does not want to make. They want the 'big mean nasty dispicable arrogant, imperialistic United States' to once again get OUR hands dirty and spill OUR blood because #1 we can and #2 no one else will, despite the plain as day benefit they will receive.
The roll we have been FORECED into by the rest of the world (that of disciplinarian) is exactly the roll they complain about us having.
Hunt/fish safely,
Phil
Guys,
No question politics (re-election) plays a big part, however I really don't think it is THE driving factor though certainly one. Though it's not realistic, for the sake of this discussion, try for a second to imagine a scenario where re-electability is not an issue. For example, let's just pretend our constitution MANDATED that after two terms the power in party could NOT run again for president (I know, ridiculous but bare with me).
So, let's pretend this was Bush's second term. No Republican could be running for November's election. Do you seriously think that would THEN allow him to do what needs to be done? Don't you think the outcry domestically and internationally would be such that it would simply never be allowed?
It is inconceivable to me that the 'civilized world' of which we proclaim to be a member, would ever allow that type of war to be fought.
I mean look at it. Annan is still pitching a fit over the prison scandal yet we continue to play by the rules. Why isn't he pitching a fit over the Oil for Food fiasco?? No doubt that resulted in MANY more lives being lost and much more gruesome atrocities than some pictures being taken!
Those involved in the prison scandal are being tried and the 'civilized sytem' is running it's course. Why? Because it is CONTROLLE BY US! So why isn't the same justice being served in the much bigger crime, the oil for food scandal? Hmmmm? Why doesn't he get his rear and troops over to Iraq to stop the UNCIVILIZED activities that are going on by the terrorist? Because that's just too 'messy' and he'd be forced to make decisions that AGAIN, the civilized world does not want to make. They want the 'big mean nasty dispicable arrogant, imperialistic United States' to once again get OUR hands dirty and spill OUR blood because #1 we can and #2 no one else will, despite the plain as day benefit they will receive. The roll we have been FORECED into by the rest of the world (that of disciplinarian) is exactly the roll they complain about us having.
Hunt/fish safely,
Phil
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