Is the atheistic view/belief/reality that there is free-will? - Thx.

[red neck richie]

I know I've said this before and have linked sites to go with it...
Early man grieved at the loss of friends and loved ones. At some point someone was talking to a deceased loved one out of frustration, looking for guidance or simply because they missed them. I think that happened a lot and was done by many.
At some other point someone in the group or tribe or clan claimed that they can communicate with the dead and relayed what the spirit(s) told them. The longer it went on the more complicated the next shawman got. Add in some hallucinogenic plants or mushrooms and the entire crew has a spiritual experience. Let it snowball from there.

That is a very loose and watered down version. It would make a great read to research the history of the earliest beliefs and religions to see where it went as humans advanced.

Agreed. I think human beings are spiritual beings by nature. And have been since the beginning. How ever you believe that came about. I think that is why if find this aaa forum so interesting. That you have never had a spiritual experience so you don't believe others have. When there have been witness to them for eon's. You think they are all chemical reactions in the brain but yet you have never had one. Interesting.

 

[WaltL1]

Walt do you think atheist dwell too much on what can be explained by man and don't explore the spirit?

Kind of depends on what you mean by "spirit".
I don't believe "spirit" is a separate thing. I don't believe you have a spirit like you have a heart, a spleen, a kidney etc.
I believe a persons "spirit" resides in their brain and is a combination of their thoughts, experiences, chemical make up etc.
Like when one would say "that horse has had his spirit broken".
There is nothing physically broken inside of him, its that the horse's experiences etc. have all been negative so he is now "depressed".
Soooo I believe exploring one's spirit is more or less the same thing as exploring one's psychology.

 

[bullethead]

Agreed. I think human beings are spiritual beings by nature. And have been since the beginning. How ever you believe that came about. I think that is why if find this aaa forum so interesting. That you have never had a spiritual experience so you don't believe others have. When there have been witness to them for eon's. You think they are all chemical reactions in the brain but yet you have never had one. Interesting.

Who said that I never had one?
When I was actively involved in believing in god I had a few feelings of being overwhelmed but in a good way. Almost like a positive panic attack. Immediately I KNEW what it was. It HAD to be god. There was nothing else it could be.
Until I found out that there were other reasons for it.
Everyone experiences Anxiety and Stress. How an individual reacts and interprets it are often a Million different things.

 

[bullethead]

Richie, read up on positive stress.

 

[red neck richie]

Kind of depends on what you mean by "spirit".
I don't believe "spirit" is a separate thing. I don't believe you have a spirit like you have a heart, a spleen, a kidney etc.
I believe a persons "spirit" resides in their brain and is a combination of their thoughts, experiences, chemical make up etc.
Like when one would say "that horse has had his spirit broken".
There is nothing physically broken inside of him, its that the horse's experiences etc. have all been negative so he is now "depressed".
Soooo I believe exploring one's spirit is more or less the same thing as exploring one's psychology.

The non physical part of a person. The Soul.

 

[red neck richie]

Richie, read up on positive stress.

Interesting. Read up on stress free.

 

[bullethead]

Interesting. Read up on stress free.

Im familiar with it.
And in reality a person is always under some sort of stress. It is not always noticeable and it is not always reacted to. It could take years.

 

[bullethead]

http://stress.lovetoknow.com/about-stress/what-is-positive-stress

 

[red neck richie]

Richie, the spirit is a person wanting a god so much that they subconsciously convince themself that some outside force dwells within.
Its not necessarily a bad thing....to a point.

Where does this come from and why is it so prevalent. Why do isolated people believe in a spirit? With no outside influence. It seems to me as though it is something every culture has experienced. No matter how deciphered.

 

[WaltL1]

The non physical part of a person. The Soul.

I believe the soul and the spirit are pretty much the same thing/same circumstances.
The only non physical part of a person I can think of are their thoughts. Which of course come from their brain which involves chemical make up, experiences etc.

I know that you view the soul or the spirit as a "thing" on its own that we have inside us.
I don't. I view it as a product of the brain. We just use these type of words like soul and spirit to name or describe certain emotions or actions.
"He is mean spirited"
"That kid has an old soul"
"He's my soul brother"
"We are kindred spirits"

 

[bullethead]

Where does this come from and why is it so prevalent. Why do isolated people believe in a spirit? With no outside influence. It seems to me as though it is something every culture has experienced. No matter how deciphered.

Richie.
I explained how it happens in the earliest of human tribes across the globe. They talk to the dead and it snowballs from there over the years.

I dont take 3 minutes to research this stuff like you do and dismiss the things that I do not like or do not agree with. I've spent years reading as much as i can.

I've answered your Indians questions with examples.
I've answered your spirit questions with examples.
I've answered your feelings of a spirit questions with examples.

Can you explain to me why if there is one god, so many people who experience these spiritual events attribute it to different gods?

 

[WaltL1]

Where does this come from and why is it so prevalent. Why do isolated people believe in a spirit? With no outside influence. It seems to me as though it is something every culture has experienced. No matter how deciphered.

Now these are good questions.
I have these same questions.
Ive heard good answers. Ive heard answers that make sense. Ive heard answers that I lean toward.
BUT
I haven't heard or seen any answers that, in my mind, convince me 100%.

 

[bullethead]

What is spirituality?

Spirituality has many definitions, but at its core spirituality helps to give your life context. It's not necessarily connected to a specific belief system or even religious worship. Instead, it arises from your connection with yourself and with others, the development of your personal value system, and your search for meaning in life

 

[WaltL1]

What is spirituality?

Spirituality has many definitions, but at its core spirituality helps to give your life context. It's not necessarily connected to a specific belief system or even religious worship. Instead, it arises from your connection with yourself and with others, the development of your personal value system, and your search for meaning in life

Yes.
And all those things take place in/are a product of your brain. Whether you are religious or non religious or what religion does not determine whether you have or can have "spirituality" or not.

 

[RegularJoe]

What faith is required when someone admits that they just do not know?
Not a believer, not a non believer, but they have not found any evidence to satisfy them that a god exists. What does faith have to do with that Regular Joe?

None.
That would be exactly agnostic, not atheistic.

 

[RegularJoe]

An Atheist does not decide who "he" is not.
An Atheist does not believe there even is a "he" because there is no evidence that a "he" exists.

No, not all views.
The view that God doesn't exist doesn't require faith.
Faith in something is when you believe it to be true despite the fact that there is no proof its true.
That a god or God exists cant, in fact, be proven.
No faith required. Just facts or a lack thereof.

Heard.

 

[bullethead]

Yes.
And all those things take place in/are a product of your brain. Whether you are religious or non religious or what religion does not determine whether you have or can have "spirituality" or not.

Exact-A-Mundo

 

[bullethead]

None.
That would be exactly agnostic, not atheistic.

thus all views of life require faith even with the aforementioned 'tangible' evidence.

I figured agnostic is a view, and why I asked.

 

[Israel]

I am well aware of what Biblical text says.
I also find those texts quite telling in that they are various writings by mostly anonymous authors that took centuries to write. They were assembled by men.
I find the claims of a god capable of creation yet does not write his own handbook and leaves his supposed word in the hands of men he would know will screw it up, a bit Ungodlike. Don't you? A god that supposedly cares for his children yet allows these writings to be the source of millions of deaths....in his name.....? Really? Wouldnt a god know the repercussions of such a book?
I am convinced that these writings are the result of tribal laws coming from tribal folklore meant for a specific tribe. All man influenced and all man made. Thou Shall Not Kill was meant for memebers of your own tribe, but was certainly not a universal rule for all of humanity as killing was not only condoned but ordered in the bible.

A fault in many believers points is that they(maybe you) assume that everyone else believes that the Bible is the word of their god because the words within say so....but nonbelievers deny it full well knowing deep down that it is true. Nothing could be further from the truth. I personally think anything that uses itself as the source of confirmation is the least truthful source.
If "because it says so in the bible" is legitimate proof, then the words contained in every other religions text that says so has also got to be equally as true.

Getting back to your "elect" point. I would counter it with bible also saying that all one has to do is ask and it shall be done. All one has to do is accept JC as Lord and Savior.

So which it?
Free Will or Predestination?
Willingness to accept or Never had a Chance because I am not chosen?

Or is it whichever answer is the most convenient answer for the situation?

How many people are out there accepting, worshipping, believing and going through life thinking they are the most loyal follower but when they die are not allowed in the pearly gates because they were never on the guest list?
It could be you. It could be 99% of christians.

The mental game is convincing yourself to believe in a god now so that you are taken care of later....and that "election" clause in the contract guarantees you nothing.

There is a yes to that.
There is a no to that.

As to the yes.

and that "election" clause in the contract guarantees you nothing.

Holding to a doctrine of election...does not at all guarantee that one is "of the elect". If I see what you may be saying correctly. It has no power (as a statement) to show final disposition (if it is being used as such) to the "later" you speak of.

Taking one's final stand here is shown ultimately to be of no finality, whatever. In some way (or at least one way) it is no more than a description of mechanism, no? And if so, mechanism has in itself no innate (power? ability? of explanation...) its observation and conclusions made through such observation may be made to appear, by explanation, no more than randomness, to some even, chaos. (which becomes a very difficult row to hoe if one tasks themselves with proving to another...an "orderly God".)

But that is the inherent problem with tasking oneself.

 

[RegularJoe]

1. An Atheist does not decide who "he" is not.
An Atheist does not believe there even is a "he" because there is no evidence that a "he" exists.

2. No, not all views.
The view that God doesn't exist doesn't require faith.
Faith in something is when you believe it to be true despite the fact that there is no proof its true.
That a god or God exists cant, in fact, be proven.
No faith required. Just facts or a lack thereof.

Numerically related replies:


1. my earlier comment which reads ....

" And, .... as well, 'the one who decides who "he" is' not :- ) even works for the atheism. ,"

& intended by me light heartedly, failed to communicate that which i would guess you & i would both concur (???) ....

that the atheist looks about and concludes that it all is what it is with no need &/or no thoughts that it 'got here' via some diety.

Is my above in sync, or close to being in sync, with your view? Thx.


2. For easy reference, my comment to which you replied was

" thus all views of life require faith "

My observation here is that no view of life can be 100% proven valid.
i am not commenting that one view of life is true and another is not, even though i'd anticipate that there is only one truth.