Is there any doubt

[ddd-shooter]

That the way the church is operating in America is not, by and large, influencing the culture?
Do you think we’ll ever stop trying the same things or even do a little self examination?
(Caveat:I know God is always moving, always saving, etc. I know he will build his church and the gates of **** will not prevail against it, etc.)
I’m just wondering if I’m the only one who thinks “you know, we’ve been doing this a certain way for a long long time… the world sure is dark considering.”

 

[brutally honest]

That the way the church is operating in America is not, by and large, influencing the culture?

Sadly, the culture has been influencing the church for a long time.

 

[brutally honest]

Do you think we’ll ever stop trying the same things or even do a little self examination?

The temptation is strong to follow the big, popular mega-churches, some of which are incredibly worldly, IMO.

 

[gordon 2]

"That the way the church is operating in America is not, by and large, influencing the culture?"

Can you elaborate?

 

[brutally honest]

The culture issues from the congregationalist branches of the church with that City on the Hill. The culture does not mirror it with the same positives and negatives, this conservative branch of the church with extremes at both ends? The checks and balances undone are not akin to extreme use and interpretations of scripture in man's affairs? The church split and hopping is not a mirror of the secessionist polity which is often cast onto differences in culture? The organizational models of church and state do not feed on each other? And they do not combine to serve economic models in the name of serving the people?

I thought Israel had been banned.

 

[ddd-shooter]

"That the way the church is operating in America is not, by and large, influencing the culture?"

Can you elaborate?

I can’t seem to find any substantial growth of the influence of Christianity in the west or America. It seems to be shrinking rapidly.

 

[Spotlite]

Sadly, the culture has been influencing the church for a long time.

Yup

 

[SemperFiDawg]

I thought Israel had been banned.

That's waaaay too coherent for Israel, but he seemed like a genuinely nice guy. I can't imagine him doing anything to get banned......but I haven't seen any post by him in a while now that you mention it. Regardless I hope he's well.

 

[Pig Predator]

I can’t seem to find any substantial growth of the influence of Christianity in the west or America. It seems to be shrinking rapidly.

And this kinda stuff don't even help a little bit.

 

[formula1]

The church can preach truth until they cannot speak anymore but if the people don’t listen it will not matter! And further, of we don’t live the gospel out, why are we there? And to make it clear, there is only one Gospel!

James 1
22 But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves. 23 For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man who looks intently at his natural face in a mirror. 24 For he looks at himself and goes away and at once forgets what he was like. 25 But the one who looks into the perfect law, the law of liberty, and perseveres, being no hearer who forgets but a doer who acts, he will be blessed in his doing.

Romans 2:13
For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified.

 

[SemperFiDawg]

The church can preach truth until they cannot speak anymore but if the people don’t listen it will not matter!

THIS. The Church's job is to sow the "good" seed. That's it. That's all. God is in charge of the soil. If the soil rejects the seed it's not a reflection on the church.

If the Church has one shortcoming it's this and it's something we all struggle with every day.......or should, if we're doing it right.

22 But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves.

 

[ddd-shooter]

The church can preach truth until they cannot speak anymore but if the people don’t listen it will not matter! And further, of we don’t live the gospel out, why are we there? And to make it clear, there is only one Gospel!

James 1
22 But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves. 23 For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man who looks intently at his natural face in a mirror. 24 For he looks at himself and goes away and at once forgets what he was like. 25 But the one who looks into the perfect law, the law of liberty, and perseveres, being no hearer who forgets but a doer who acts, he will be blessed in his doing.

Romans 2:13
For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified.

THIS. The Church's job is to sow the "good" seed. That's it. That's all. God is in charge of the soil. If the soil rejects the seed it's not a reflection on the church.

If the Church has one shortcoming it's this and it's something we all struggle with every day.......or should, if we're doing it right.

If a farmer couldn’t grow a crop, would we say “he’s done his job” or “must be bad soil” or would we sit down and see why he’s not producing a harvest?

I just find it astounding that the churches response (by and large) is that it’s the worlds fault they’re not saved. I understand the parable of the sower. I understand that not everyone will be saved. But the incredible lack of awareness of anybody going “you know, our efforts aren’t producing much” is wild.
We do also have the parable of the steward who gave an account for the growth of the talents. We have the early church which set the world on fire. I don’t think they blamed Rome.

 

[Ruger#3]

That's waaaay too coherent for Israel, but he seemed like a genuinely nice guy. I can't imagine him doing anything to get banned......but I haven't seen any post by him in a while now that you mention it. Regardless I hope he's well.

Warnings , banning and other staff work are not for discussion in the open forum. You’re more than welcome to PM one of us with a grievance or question anytime. Just FYI, if you put someone’s screen name in that search tool and there’s nothing listed they are no longer a member here.

 

[Ruger#3]

THIS. The Church's job is to sow the "good" seed. That's it. That's all. God is in charge of the soil. If the soil rejects the seed it's not a reflection on the church.

If the Church has one shortcoming it's this and it's something we all struggle with every day.......or should, if we're doing it right.

I very much concur…….

 

[SemperFiDawg]

If a farmer couldn’t grow a crop, would we say “he’s done his job” or “must be bad soil” or would we sit down and see why he’s not producing a harvest?

I just find it astounding that the churches response (by and large) is that it’s the worlds fault they’re not saved. I understand the parable of the sower. I understand that not everyone will be saved. But the incredible lack of awareness of anybody going “you know, our efforts aren’t producing much” is wild.
We do also have the parable of the steward who gave an account for the growth of the talents. We have the early church which set the world on fire. I don’t think they blamed Rome.

Gonna get worse. Revelations makes it very clear that during the Tribulation people will KNOW it’s Gods judgement and yet REFUSE to repent. This is not a reflection on God any more than people refusing the same offering of repentance and salvation from the Church today. And regardless of how much choice you wanna argue man has in the matter, one thing is certain: he has enough to be culpable for his actions.

 

[ddd-shooter]

And regardless of how much choice you wanna argue man has in the matter, one thing is certain: he has enough to be culpable for his actions.

I would apply the same thing to the church at large, as well as every member of it, in regards to how we are or are not actually taking the time to see if we’re being the manifestation of Jesus in the earth.

 

[The Original Rooster]

I would apply the same thing to the church at large, as well as every member of it, in regards to how we are or are not actually taking the time to see if we’re being the manifestation of Jesus in the earth.

It seems to me that there are so many distractions in the church and its denominations, the world, and the pastors and teachers of the church when it comes to teaching the word.
So many are eager to use complicated words and stories and I just can't help but think why? Christ's parables were simple for the simple people he was preaching to.
It seems to me that more often I see Christ in individual people and not so much of Christ in the different churches.
I don't know, maybe I'm getting old and grumpy.

 

[gordon 2]

If we go back to the fundaments of delivering the good news Paul might be a good place to start.

"To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. 21 To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law. 22 To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some."

It seems to me that one of the failings of the church (all denominations) is to deliver the gospel to the people of our times. Most do as they did in the past and end up preaching to the converted, as if this was effective to all.


One thing I have learned from teaching or delivering the gospel is that if you deliver the gospel in a setting and in a way that people are accustomed to learn, it is more easy for them to integrate or absorb information.

If the church is disconnected from the way people have been though to learn in a society--- the church is just another racket or a noise along with many others in society.

To be more specific adults today have been tough to learn the academic and scientific way say in comparison to the ways of the past where experience and the traditional ( trade) were the greater ways to learn. People today in general have much more intellectual discipline than in the past. Women are more educated and experienced in the affairs of society than has ever been the case. People are more critical of information today than possibly any other time in history, many have to do this daily in our social media world. Many are much more critical of communications, the institution that putout communications in the day to day, then in any other generation that preceded it. Some 40 yr olds today can critically read something on social media by instinct with the competency equal to those trained to do this in the past.

Today the church and its yields can be assessed and understood with a few intellectual observations like one views the performance ratios of a business listing shares for sale on the stock exchanges. A society also.

I think that like Paul and his ministry the church has to get off its high horse and get with the task of ministering the gospel in ways that the people who say " I don't understand or I can't understand" can. The man of the 1960s is not the man of today. And if the church was to promote church planting as was the case for the man of the 60s, it ain't gona work for the man of today. He's moved on and his frontiers are very different in comparison.

 

[gordon 2]

Gonna get worse. Revelations makes it very clear that during the Tribulation people will KNOW it’s Gods judgement and yet REFUSE to repent. This is not a reflection on God any more than people refusing the same offering of repentance and salvation from the Church today. And regardless of how much choice you wanna argue man has in the matter, one thing is certain: he has enough to be culpable for his actions.

Yep. " For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, all the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies."