Rolling Block Remington Mauser 7M 7X57

[frankwright]

My friend inherited this rifle. It is a Spanish Mauser supposedly made under a Remington contract.
He had it checked out by a gunsmith and it said it was in excellent condition but was made to only fire black powder cartridges.

I have been searching the internet and can not validate that statement. I did read that the changed the 7X57 specs and modern cases may not headspace correctly on older guns and cases may need to be fireformed and then can be reloaded and shot.
Any one have any experience with this.
This is a picture of one that looks very similar.

 

[JustUs4All]

I can't really help with your technical questions but that is a nice looking Rolling Block. I can't imaging that, if the rifle is sound, it would not be possible to create a load that would be safe to shoot.

 

[frankwright]

Thanks, I have been doing a lot of reading and research and almost everything says 60% of a max load will be safe.
They also say H4350 and H4895 are good powders for reduced loads.
I just need to find out what kind and how much powder to fireform the case and whether to use a bullet or the Cream of Wheat method with soap or tissue paper as a bullet.

 

[bullethead]

I always thought that the 7mm Mauser was one of the first cartridges designed around smokeless powder, or the oldest cartridge that was designed for smokeless powder that is still in use 130+ years later.

Edit to add:
I was incorrect, it transitioned from BP to smokeless.

 

[Liberty]

I don’t know enough to know if that rifle is designed for smokeless or black, but I’d listen to the gunsmith. Even light loads of smokeless can kaboom firearms designed/manufactured for black powder. If you don’t believe me, check out a few YouTube videos of smokeless in black powder with associated kabooms and injuries. I’d just load with black powder and make sure there are no air gaps in the cases. I have a black powder cartridge reloading manual, but it will be Monday before I can look at it for a 7mm Mauser load.

 

[doomtrpr_z71]

Is he sure it's a Spanish Mauser? That would be a model 1893 bolt gun not a rolling block. The rolling block would be a Remington and could be in 43 Spanish but it shouldn't be a Spanish rifle in 7x57, it would be made later anyway if it was made in 7mm and not for black powder 7x57. Domestic 7x57 is pretty light loaded to begin with, I shoot it all the time out of my 1895 Chilean Mauser. S&B does load their 7x57 with more modern load data. Most likely the chamber is cut for the 173 gr 7x57 load and the modern 120 gr stuff won't build a lot of pressure anyway due to the long leade in the chamber. Here is some load data from Lee, they are pretty conservative vs modern loads

 

[Liberty]

Smokeless was invented in the 1880’s for the Lebel Rifle but remained a military secret for a time in France. It is likely that by the time your 1895 was manufactured for use it was for smokeless powder. I don’t know about his falling block. Be careful with those transition period guns until you know when it was made and what is was made to be fired with folks. The pressure spike and curve is different for smokeless and black. Different steel must be used for smokeless.

 

[doomtrpr_z71]

Smokeless was invented in the 1880’s for the Lebel Rifle but remained a military secret for a time in France. It is likely that by the time your 1895 was manufactured for use it was for smokeless powder. I don’t know about his falling block. Be careful with those transition period guns until you know when it was made and what is was made to be fired with folks. The pressure spike and curve is different for smokeless and black. Different steel must be used for smokeless.

7x57 was never designed as a black powder cartridge, it was smokeless from the beginning.

 

[frankwright]

Thanks for all the help. We will start light and not go up much.

 

[doomtrpr_z71]

Thanks for all the help. We will start light and not go up much.

Here is some cast load data that is plenty light

 

[Liberty]

7x57 was never designed as a black powder cartridge, it was smokeless from the beginning.

Thanks for cleaning that up! I didn’t know the particulars of that cartridge beyond be careful in the pre- 1900 era until you know.

 

[doomtrpr_z71]

Thanks for cleaning that up! I didn’t know the particulars of that cartridge beyond be careful in the pre- 1900 era until you know.

It was cutting edge for the 1890s!

 

[Bobby Bigtime]

Are you sure that roller is not chambered for the rimmed version of that cartridge?

 

[frankwright]

7X57 M for sure.
Now that I have the rifle it is not Spanish, pure Remington #5 Trap Door.
Bore looks good just really dirty.
I am cleaning it up but leaving everything original.
I should have some ammo loaded in the next week or so!

 

[GunnSmokeer]

Now that you have the rifle in your hands,
how about some pics,
including close-ups of the action?

Good luck on handloading for it.
I certainly would do that, and shoot it,
if it were mine.

 

[JustUs4All]

If it is the rifle pictured in post #1 it is not a Trap Door, it is a rolling block. Both are great old rifles but they are very different.

 

[frankwright]

If it is the rifle pictured in post #1 it is not a Trap Door, it is a rolling block. Both are great old rifles but they are very different.

You are exactly right. I don't know how I got the wrong terminology stuck in my head.

Old age is not for sissies!

 

[JustUs4All]

Yes, tell me about it. LOL

 

[GeorgiaGlockMan]

Pics?

 

[frankwright]

I will get some up soon.
I have run into a problem and have not had time to research it.
A 7x57 case from new S&B ammo will not go into the shell holder of a new Lee die set. It will also not go into the proper shell holder for my Lee hand priming tool. I don't know if the case rim is too thick or the case holder just needs a little opening up at the front.
Tomorrow's project.