The Morality of God

[atlashunter]

This reminds me of the words of Mark Twain.

"We hear much about His mercy and kindness and goodness - in words - the words of His Book and of His pulpit - and the meek multitude is content with this evidence, such as it is, seeking no further; but whoso searcheth after a concreted sample of it will in time acquire fatigue. There being no instances of it. For what are gilded as mercies are not in any recorded case more than mere common justices, and due - due without thanks or compliment. To rescue without personal risk a cripple from a burning house is not a mercy, it is a mere commonplace duty; anybody would do it that could. And not by proxy, either - delegating the work but confiscating the credit for it. If men neglected “God’s poor” and “God’s stricken and helpless ones” as He does, what would become of them? The answer is to be found in those dark lands where man follows His example and turns his indifferent back upon them: they get no help at all; they cry, and plead and pray in vain, they linger and suffer, and miserably die. If you will look at the matter rationally and without prejudice, the proper place to hunt for the facts of His mercy, is not where man does the mercies and He collects the praise, but in those regions where He has the field to Himself."

 

[1gr8bldr]

Watched that and browsing through some of this guys other lectures. Makes me realize why critical thinkers have such a hard time understanding why I have the hope that I do. I guess I have always realized it to be a hard sell. But to hear someone speak so rationally, or should I say logical, it really hits home. Makes me ponder over issues that I have never addressed. The problem of suffering. I need to ponder this to decide what it is that I believe about suffering. It's the hard issues that we face, rather than ignore that make our beliefs solid

 

[gemcgrew]

Watched that and browsing through some of this guys other lectures. Makes me realize why critical thinkers have such a hard time understanding why I have the hope that I do.

Interesting how he starts off with the children in order to evoke more emotion.

 

[bullethead]

One heck of a video. It touches on some thoughts I have had for many years.

 

[bullethead]

Interesting how he starts off with the children in order to evoke more emotion.

9 million children per year die before the age of 5. That is not counting children over the age of 5 nor adults. That is a LOT of dead people each year. It should be emotional.

 

[gemcgrew]

9 million children per year die before the age of 5. That is not counting children over the age of 5 nor adults. That is a LOT of dead people each year. It should be emotional.

And it is. That is why religion comes up with an "age of accountability" in order to soothe the anxiety it stirs. The God of the Bible kills people. It makes it difficult to fill the church buildings if proclaimed from the pulpit.

 

[bullethead]

And it is. That is why religion comes up with an "age of accountability" in order to soothe the anxiety it stirs. The God of the Bible kills people. It makes it difficult to fill the church buildings if proclaimed from the pulpit.

Agreed Gem!

 

[atlashunter]

92 views and only 6 replies.

 

[atlashunter]

9 million children per year die before the age of 5. That is not counting children over the age of 5 nor adults. That is a LOT of dead people each year. It should be emotional.

It get's worse than even what Sam Harris says in that clip because not only do Christians refuse to lay any responsibility at the feet of their all powerful God for this suffering, they blame humanity.

 

[JB0704]

92 views and only 6 replies.

Is there a chance your position cuold be changed on the subject, short of Jesus riding up on a unicorn and telling you "it's all good"?

This is kind-of like the problem of evil. You(pl) are mandating how things "ought be," and then dismissing God for not living up to your expectations. If God is the assumption, "ought be" ain't got nothing to do with it. It is a discussion of how things "are."

 

[bullethead]

It get's worse than even what Sam Harris says in that clip because not only do Christians refuse to lay any responsibility at the feet of their all powerful God for this suffering, they blame humanity.

One of the big factors for me was when I mustered up the courage to hold my "do no wrong" God accountable for the wrongs. It was not long after that I concluded it made much more sense that no god was or is involved in anything. It is people making excuses.

 

[bullethead]

Is there a chance your position cuold be changed on the subject, short of Jesus riding up on a unicorn and telling you "it's all good"?

This is kind-of like the problem of evil. You(pl) are mandating how things "ought be," and then dismissing God for not living up to your expectations. If God is the assumption, "ought be" ain't got nothing to do with it. It is a discussion of how things "are."

Assuming God/Jesus is capable of the things we are told daily that they are capable of........a quick trip on the Uni would be no problem to clear a lot of things up.

You(pl)are mandating things from "IF" instead of facing the truth of the known.

 

[JB0704]

You(pl)are mandating things from "IF" instead of facing the truth of the known.

How so? Not following.....

 

[bullethead]

Is there a chance your position cuold be changed on the subject, short of Jesus riding up on a unicorn and telling you "it's all good"?

This is kind-of like the problem of evil. You(pl) are mandating how things "ought be," and then dismissing God for not living up to your expectations. If God is the assumption, "ought be" ain't got nothing to do with it. It is a discussion of how things "are."

Did you ever notice how man(lets just exclude religion for right now) makes up fairy tales and magic worlds where things and events just work out miraculously? In these fabricated stories everything always turns out for the better.
Now including religion..... No made up entity can ever live up to our expectations as for thousands of years the supreme being has been tweaked and twisted into something that is what every believer needs and the triumphant hero of everything the believer fears.

We hold accountability to the unaccountable. Real and fake.

 

[bullethead]

How so? Not following.....

You said "IF" there is a God........

ANYTHING can be made to appear real when we have to pretend it is real.

 

[atlashunter]

Is there a chance your position cuold be changed on the subject, short of Jesus riding up on a unicorn and telling you "it's all good"?

This is kind-of like the problem of evil. You(pl) are mandating how things "ought be," and then dismissing God for not living up to your expectations. If God is the assumption, "ought be" ain't got nothing to do with it. It is a discussion of how things "are."

You're way off base here JB. Sam is the one pointing out the way things are and the way things are don't reconcile with the claims christians make. If one simply claimed "There is a God" and left it at that we might then look at the world and draw some logical conclusions concerning that God. The problem is that Christians go much further than that and in doing so end up with beliefs that just don't mesh with reality. That is what Sam is pointing out. Mark Twain saw it too.

 

[JB0704]

ANYTHING can be made to appear real when we have to pretend it is real.

Ok. I agree. Then the whole argument depends on whether or not that "if" is true.........

 

[gemcgrew]

One of the big factors for me was when I mustered up the courage to hold my "do no wrong" God accountable for the wrongs.

How is it wrong for the Creator of the universe to do as He pleases with His creation? Would we, the created, have right to question? Or just be.

 

[JB0704]

You're way off base here JB. Sam is the one pointing out the way things are and the way things are don't reconcile with the claims christians make. If one simply claimed "There is a God" and left it at that we might then look at the world and draw some logical conclusions concerning that God. The problem is that Christians go much further than that and in doing so end up with beliefs that just don't mesh with reality. That is what Sam is pointing out. Mark Twain saw it too.

Here's my $0.02, and obviously, I am not the majority (seems like a theme with my opinion these days)......

Claims that Christians make have zero to do with the way things are. Things are what they are. We all draw our conclusions based on the evidence given. Who and what God is does not depend on what anybody says he is. Whether or not he exists does not depend on whether you believe it.

Take anything you know of, I will use my computer for an example. It is a Dell. If I told you it was a Mac, that wouldn't make it so.

My point is that before we judge anybody's conclusions, we have to see if the premise is correct. Is there a God. I say yes, you say no. From there, we can use logic, , the Bible, evidence, intuition, astrology, or whatever else assists us in understandin the nature of that God. For those that say no, the only logical view of anybody's faith is to dismiss it as "fairy tales."

 

[gemcgrew]

Sam is the one pointing out the way things are and the way things are don't reconcile with the claims christians make. If one simply claimed "There is a God" and left it at that we might then look at the world and draw some logical conclusions concerning that God. The problem is that Christians go much further than that and in doing so end up with beliefs that just don't mesh with reality. That is what Sam is pointing out. Mark Twain saw it too.

I would agree. Religion would have a difficult time controlling the masses and taking their money though.