Catholics in the Bible Belt Time Magazine

Free Willie

Senior Member
This article is a few years old but it is very telling. Even I didn't know about the growth in Atlanta.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1025176,00.html

Eight years ago, a handful of Roman Catholic families in Huntersville, a suburb of Charlotte, N.C., started a new parish. The home of their church, St. Mark, was a bowling alley. Our Lady of the Lanes, as they jokingly called it, was an apt symbol of the scarcity--and supple ingenuity--of Catholics in a region known as the buckle of the Protestant Bible Belt. Soon St. Mark was gaining a family a day. Now its almost 2,800 families hear Mass in a cavernous gymnasium as they await completion of a new church. Among the newcomers is Ben Liuzzo, 54, a financial-services manager who a few years ago moved his family from New York to North Carolina. He had thought Catholics in the area might be as outnumbered as Jews or Muslims--and that the meager church life that did exist wouldn't engage his 14-year-old son. Instead, the Liuzzos are attending standing-room-only services like St. Mark's teen Mass, complete with a pop-music ensemble that could be mistaken for one of the area's rollicking Christian rock bands. "This I was not prepared for," says Liuzzo, who flashes a smile at a recent service as an altar girl marches a crucifix past 1,000 parishioners.


Yankee transplants like the Liuzzos aren't the only ones helping fill the pews in the Charlotte diocese. Mexican immigrants are the fastest-growing group, and Hispanics as a whole make up half the diocese's 300,000 Catholics. Thousands of Vietnamese and Filipino Catholics are settling in too. "I've wondered often how bishops in the Northeast handled the waves of immigration in the 19th and 20th centuries," says Bishop Peter Jugis, 47, who took over the diocese in 2003. "It's exciting." It also transcends demographics: the newcomers are practicing a more conservative Catholicism than their brethren in many other parts of the country.

That more orthodox approach is proving as popular as a revival meeting. Priests and lay people in traditional Catholic strongholds in the Northeast and Midwest are distressed by a plunge in regular Mass attendance to just 30% of the registered congregation in many parishes, by a chronic shortage of priests and by the financial burden of paying off settlements for sexual-abuse cases. But Catholics in places like Charlotte say the church is being born again in the cradle of born-again Christianity--the South. The Catholic population in Charlotte is growing almost 10% a year, and the ratio of newly ordained priests to parishioners there is 1 to 7,000, more than seven times as high as Chicago's. Bishop Jugis last year blessed five new churches in the diocese.

Charlotte's conversion is hardly unique. The number of Catholics in Houston and Atlanta has tripled in the past decade; the nation's first new Catholic university in 40 years, Ave Maria, is under construction in Naples, Fla. Pizza billionaire and Michigan native Tom Monaghan, a conservative Catholic, is bankrolling the $200 million campus, along with a scholarship program for the children of Florida migrant laborers, and many regard the project as a potent symbol of Southern Catholicism's growing theological and political clout. All told, Catholics still make up only about 12% of the South's population, vs. 22% of the total U.S. population, according to the Glenmary Research Center in Nashville, Tenn. But Southern Catholics saw growth of almost 30% in the 1990s, compared with less than 10% for Baptists, who make up the area's largest denomination.


The success of the church in the South could be influential beyond the Mason-Dixon Line. Southern Catholicism "is changing the nature of the church in America," says Patrick McHenry, 29, a Republican who last month became Charlotte's first Catholic Congressman. "We adhere to a truer and purer view of Catholicism." Roman Catholics, still the largest religious denomination in the U.S., at 65 million strong, will debate what "truer and purer" means. But one thing seems certain: Southern Catholics, influenced in no small degree by their morally hard-line Protestant neighbors, as well as the strong piety of Latin America, are decidedly more orthodox in their faith. Their explosive growth could eventually reverse national polls in which a majority of Catholics say they can disagree with church teachings, even on abortion, and remain good Catholics. Indeed, many Sunbelt Catholics say their mission is to rescue the church from what they consider to be the murky faith of liberal Catholic figures like former Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry. During last year's election campaign, Jugis and at least two other Southern bishops publicly argued that Catholic politicians who favor abortion rights should be denied Holy Communion, a move endorsed by many Southern Catholics as the tone they believe the church should set.

Given how overwhelmingly Protestant the South was in the 20th century, it is easy to forget that the Catholic Church--which, to its shame, condoned slavery--was a player there before the Civil War. (Think Scarlett O'Hara chanting the rosary in Gone With the Wind.) But the church virtually disappeared after the war. It aided the civil rights movement, but its numbers didn't rebound until the 1980s, as Yankees flocked to the Sunbelt's technology and service industries, and as Mexicans and Central American migrants moved northward for poultry-processing and other low-wage jobs. From 1980 to 2000, the region's Catholic population had doubled, to more than 12 million.

North Carolina, in fact, suddenly had the highest Hispanic growth rate in the U.S. One arrival was Carlos Medina, 55, who arrived 10 years ago from Nicaragua via Miami. "In 1983 U.S. bishops prophesied in a pastoral letter that Hispanic people would revive, maybe even save, the church in this country," says Medina, who owns a painting company in Charlotte and is a deacon at Our Lady of the Assumption, where he assists the priest with the popular Spanish-language Masses. "I think it came true."

If Hispanic Catholics find affirmation in the South, Northerners often experience a transformation. Dianne Rider, 45, was a doctrinal moderate when she lived in Yonkers, N.Y. As a parishioner at St. Mark, she is a strict adherent to Vatican instruction. One reason: in a region where the first question you're asked when you meet someone is often "What church do you attend?," Rider is in constant contact with Evangelicals and other Protestants who are still mystified by Catholics and frequently "call us onto the carpet to explain what we believe. It has helped take me back to the basics of my faith." Says the Rev. Jay Scott Newman, pastor of St. Mary's Catholic Church, less than two hours south in Greenville, S.C.: "Here you're not Catholic because your parents came from Italy or Slovakia. It's because you believe what the church teaches you is absolutely true."


Such evangelical Catholicism, as Newman calls it, also lends itself to Southern-fried flavors like more exuberant hymn singing, intense Bible study, spirited preaching and what Evangelicals call witnessing--personal and public professions of faith usually foreign to the more philosophical, communal and inward Catholic style. Some church observers say this trend, while ecumenical, could undermine the "intellectual heritage" of the faith, says the Rev. Kevin Wildes, president of Loyola University New Orleans, which in 2002 opened the Center for the Study of Catholics in the South. "The question is whether Catholicism in the South simply becomes another form of evangelical Fundamentalism with incense."

Yet for a church that has suffered so many setbacks in recent years, it's hard to argue with such success. Southern dioceses like Charlotte not only boast some of the highest numbers of priestly ordinations in the U.S.; they're also a magnet for new clergy from the North. The current generation of U.S. Catholic seminarians, weaned on the strict dogma of Pope John Paul II, is more conservative than its predecessors who came of age in the 1960s and '70s in the wake of Vatican II. Many, like the new parochial vicar at St. Mark, the Rev. Timothy Reid, 34, an Indiana native, are drawn to the more orthodox spirit they see in Southern pews. Says Reid: "Here it's more vibrant because we're creating a Catholic culture almost from scratch."

It is a culture that is also attracting religious outsiders. Southern Catholics say their real strength is not in the influx of co-believers coming into the region but in the rising number of native converts. In an area where many consider Catholics idolaters, the adult catechumen class at St. Mary's in Greenville, site of conservative Protestant Bob Jones University, has leapt to more than 60 members from a minuscule number a few years ago, according to Newman, who converted from Protestantism in 1982. Beth Burgess, 42, a lifelong Presbyterian, is converting despite the open disapproval of her parents. She feels she needs a deeper "historical perspective of faith," a sense of what the Catholic Church's "1st century fathers believed." She may end up playing a larger role than she imagined in how 21st century Catholics believe. --With reporting by Maggie Sieger/Houston and Constance E. Richards/ Greenville

:yeah:
 

Sugar HillDawg

Senior Member
This is why the Catholic church is in the Illegal Aliens corner, these people are their new parishioners.
 

Free Willie

Senior Member
Please provide evidence to back up that statement.

However, the Church is Universal, meaning it is for everyone and when it comes to helping human beings the Church helps without regards to nationality.
 

Lowjack

Senior Member
This seems to be Contrary to other reports, even here in Miami;

on Sunday, 05.31.09 Recommend (2)share email print comment reprint
SOUTH FLORIDA
Archdiocese of Miami to close 13 churches
The Archdiocese of Miami's plans to close 13 churches in Miami-Dade and Broward County shocked parishioners.
BY JAWEED KALEEM
jkaleem@MiamiHerald.com
Thirteen Catholic churches -- most in some of South Florida's poorest urban areas -- will be closed and members sent elsewhere, the Archdiocese of Miami said Sunday.

But stunned parishioners, some close to tears, said they will not go down without a fight.

''This is a travesty,'' said Reginald Munnings, who attends St. Francis Xavier, Miami's first black Catholic church. Munnings and 60 other families will be asked to attend Gesu, Miami's oldest Catholic church located in downtown Miami. ''I'm not going to go,'' said Munnings, 52, who, like other parishioners, knew cuts were coming, but was shocked to hear that his was on the list.

Five other Miami-Dade closures include St. Vincent de Paul in West Little River, St. Cecilia in Hialeah, St. Robert Bellarmine in Allapattah, St. Philip Neri in Bunche Park and Our Lady of Perpetual Help in Opa-locka.

Seven Broward churches will be closed, including Church of the Resurrection in Dania Beach, St. Joseph Haitian Mission in Pompano Beach, St. Luke in Coconut Creek, Our Lady Aparecida in Hollywood, St. Charles Borromeo in Hallandale Beach; Divine Mercy Haitian Mission, and St. George, both in Fort Lauderdale.

Citing the ''financial difficulties being experienced by all in our country'' and that the archdiocese can no longer subsidize operations at the churches, Archbishop John C. Favalora said in a letter that ``the archdiocese in the future should plan for fewer but larger parishes.''

Favalora said he will make his final decision the first week of August, indicating that some churches could be saved.

''We're looking at finances and a shift in the Catholic population,'' said archdiocese spokeswoman Mary Ross Agosta. Church officials have crunched numbers on Mass attendance, baptisms, confirmations and funerals at churches to determine which to cut, she said.

But to Willa Mary Willis, a member of Bunche Park's St. Philip Neri for 50 years, the numbers do not add up.

''We had a full house today, maybe 350 or 400 people,'' said Willis, 70. ``I know the economy is bad, but I just hope and pray we can keep the door open.''

The archdiocese wants her members to go to St. Monica in Miami Gardens.

Munnings does not see the math, either. ''They tell us the parish owes $47,000 to the archdiocese,'' he said, ``but we're going to bring in [money] by leasing our school property.''

St. Francis Xavier recently closed its school -- one of six the archdiocese closed last month to save an estimated $1.8 million -- but it will reopen in the fall as a secular charter.

Money from the charter rental was supposed to help support the struggling parish, churchgoers say.

''Everybody's upset,'' said the Rev. J. Thomas Pohto, pastor at Church of the Resurrection. He is not giving up hope.

``This is very preliminary; we're going to consult our financial and pastoral councils. It's too soon to say what will happen.''

Julia Winters, a longtime member of St. Charles Borromeo in Hallandale Beach, was taken aback by the announcement, but said she's hoping her church will survive.

''We're not sure if plans will materialize,'' she said.

The archdiocese serves 800,000 members in Miami-Dade, Broward and Monroe counties, with 128 parishes, missions and apostolates. Three of the churches to close are missions or apostolates, which serve specific cultural groups. Many of the churches designated to close serve minorities.

Maria Jerkins, director for the Office of Black Catholic Affairs in Miami, got calls from several concerned parishioners before she even saw the list.

''But she was not surprised by the closings. ``We have known this is a problem for a while,'' she said.

Sunday's announcement followed a May 24 letter from Favalora hinting at a broad reorganization in the archdiocese, including other unspecified cutbacks.

Many Catholic dioceses around the country have closed churches in recent years. The Diocese of Cleveland, for instance, announced in March that it would close 52 of its 224 churches next year.

The Catholic population in South Florida has increased by 8,000 since 2001, according to the Center for Applied Research in the Apostolate at Georgetown University. Still, like many parts of the country, Catholics have moved to the suburbs, draining historical urban churches of membership and money.

Miami Herald staff writer Diana Moskovitz contributed to this report.
 

earl

Banned
This seems to be Contrary to other reports, even here in Miami;

on Sunday, 05.31.09 Recommend (2)share email print comment reprint
SOUTH FLORIDA
Archdiocese of Miami to close 13 churches
The Archdiocese of Miami's plans to close 13 churches in Miami-Dade and Broward County shocked parishioners.
BY JAWEED KALEEM
jkaleem@MiamiHerald.com
Thirteen Catholic churches -- most in some of South Florida's poorest urban areas -- will be closed and members sent elsewhere, the Archdiocese of Miami said Sunday.

But stunned parishioners, some close to tears, said they will not go down without a fight.

''This is a travesty,'' said Reginald Munnings, who attends St. Francis Xavier, Miami's first black Catholic church. Munnings and 60 other families will be asked to attend Gesu, Miami's oldest Catholic church located in downtown Miami. ''I'm not going to go,'' said Munnings, 52, who, like other parishioners, knew cuts were coming, but was shocked to hear that his was on the list.

Five other Miami-Dade closures include St. Vincent de Paul in West Little River, St. Cecilia in Hialeah, St. Robert Bellarmine in Allapattah, St. Philip Neri in Bunche Park and Our Lady of Perpetual Help in Opa-locka.

Seven Broward churches will be closed, including Church of the Resurrection in Dania Beach, St. Joseph Haitian Mission in Pompano Beach, St. Luke in Coconut Creek, Our Lady Aparecida in Hollywood, St. Charles Borromeo in Hallandale Beach; Divine Mercy Haitian Mission, and St. George, both in Fort Lauderdale.

Citing the ''financial difficulties being experienced by all in our country'' and that the archdiocese can no longer subsidize operations at the churches, Archbishop John C. Favalora said in a letter that ``the archdiocese in the future should plan for fewer but larger parishes.''

Favalora said he will make his final decision the first week of August, indicating that some churches could be saved.

''We're looking at finances and a shift in the Catholic population,'' said archdiocese spokeswoman Mary Ross Agosta. Church officials have crunched numbers on Mass attendance, baptisms, confirmations and funerals at churches to determine which to cut, she said.

But to Willa Mary Willis, a member of Bunche Park's St. Philip Neri for 50 years, the numbers do not add up.

''We had a full house today, maybe 350 or 400 people,'' said Willis, 70. ``I know the economy is bad, but I just hope and pray we can keep the door open.''

The archdiocese wants her members to go to St. Monica in Miami Gardens.

Munnings does not see the math, either. ''They tell us the parish owes $47,000 to the archdiocese,'' he said, ``but we're going to bring in [money] by leasing our school property.''

St. Francis Xavier recently closed its school -- one of six the archdiocese closed last month to save an estimated $1.8 million -- but it will reopen in the fall as a secular charter.

Money from the charter rental was supposed to help support the struggling parish, churchgoers say.

''Everybody's upset,'' said the Rev. J. Thomas Pohto, pastor at Church of the Resurrection. He is not giving up hope.

``This is very preliminary; we're going to consult our financial and pastoral councils. It's too soon to say what will happen.''

Julia Winters, a longtime member of St. Charles Borromeo in Hallandale Beach, was taken aback by the announcement, but said she's hoping her church will survive.

''We're not sure if plans will materialize,'' she said.

The archdiocese serves 800,000 members in Miami-Dade, Broward and Monroe counties, with 128 parishes, missions and apostolates. Three of the churches to close are missions or apostolates, which serve specific cultural groups. Many of the churches designated to close serve minorities.

Maria Jerkins, director for the Office of Black Catholic Affairs in Miami, got calls from several concerned parishioners before she even saw the list.

''But she was not surprised by the closings. ``We have known this is a problem for a while,'' she said.

Sunday's announcement followed a May 24 letter from Favalora hinting at a broad reorganization in the archdiocese, including other unspecified cutbacks.

Many Catholic dioceses around the country have closed churches in recent years. The Diocese of Cleveland, for instance, announced in March that it would close 52 of its 224 churches next year.

The Catholic population in South Florida has increased by 8,000 since 2001, according to the Center for Applied Research in the Apostolate at Georgetown University. Still, like many parts of the country, Catholics have moved to the suburbs, draining historical urban churches of membership and money.

Miami Herald staff writer Diana Moskovitz contributed to this report.




Wouldn't it be nice if all them furinners would go home so we could send missionaries to straighten 'em out ??

When I lived in Loxahatchee I liked the ole saying ---- Would the last American leaving Miami please bring the flag.::ke:::ke:::ke:
 

Free Willie

Senior Member
Sometimes closing a few parishes is needed. I have seen churches close here in Atlanta even in growth because they were not supporting themselves. Even with our growth the individual church has to help support itself. Populations migrate to other areas and some churches have a handout mentality where they expect he archdiocese to pay their way without helping themselves out. So they close the church and expand the parish of a larger church to that area.

When I wasa kid, our church serviced all of West Georgia and East Alabama. One church. Now there are several dozen in those areas. Churches in urban areas have been known to get themselves into some serious debt offering social programs with no plan to fund them, thinking the Church has unlimited funds. I heard of a Catholic Church in Dalton that was over a million dollars in debt because the parishoners wanted programs but would not financally support their parish. Sad, really, but not something that I haven't seen in other denominations.
 

Jeffriesw

Senior Member
Sometimes closing a few parishes is needed. I have seen churches close here in Atlanta even in growth because they were not supporting themselves. Even with our growth the individual church has to help support itself. Populations migrate to other areas and some churches have a handout mentality where they expect he archdiocese to pay their way without helping themselves out. So they close the church and expand the parish of a larger church to that area.

When I wasa kid, our church serviced all of West Georgia and East Alabama. One church. Now there are several dozen in those areas. Churches in urban areas have been known to get themselves into some serious debt offering social programs with no plan to fund them, thinking the Church has unlimited funds. I heard of a Catholic Church in Dalton that was over a million dollars in debt because the parishoners wanted programs but would not financally support their parish. Sad, really, but not something that I haven't seen in other denominations.[/QUOTE]


Happens all over and in many denominations I would think (IMHO) because you see it throughout society. People screaming for tons and tons of social programs have exactly no clue what the cost and always want someone else to pay when they do find out the cost.

I really dont care what side of the tithing debate you fall on, If you honestly believe something (The work of the Church) and in it's Cause (Reaching the Lost, Feeding the needy, taking care of widows and orphans and basically loving your neighbor as Christ told us to do) you will be more than happy to put your Prayer, time energies and your Money (God's anyhow) into it.
If you aint willing to support the Church, why even Go?
What does that say about your priorities?

Ok sorry to get a little :offtopic:

Rant over:bounce:
 

mtnwoman

Senior Member
We do horrible things like have fundraisers to support certain things. Mostly it's youth oriented. We have craft fairs, dinners, yard sales, car washes, etc to raise money for those things, like many other groups do. The more wealthy donate money, folks donate time, etc.
Kids who can provide their uniforms, great, kids that can't get aid from out fundraisers.

Now I know some of you have dogged me for selling hotdogs on church turf on saturdays. But if you wanna a softball team for the kids, a volley team for the kids, etc etc, then this works for us.

I donate time in the craft dept. I teach especially older girls how to make and market jewelry. It's helped me a lot of times thru the tough years, selling jewelry and it's a great hobby for many ailments, especially emotional things that girls wanna chat about.

Ok sorry
Ramblin Rose
 

Lowjack

Senior Member
We do horrible things like have fundraisers to support certain things. Mostly it's youth oriented. We have craft fairs, dinners, yard sales, car washes, etc to raise money for those things, like many other groups do. The more wealthy donate money, folks donate time, etc.
Kids who can provide their uniforms, great, kids that can't get aid from out fundraisers.

Now I know some of you have dogged me for selling hotdogs on church turf on saturdays. But if you wanna a softball team for the kids, a volley team for the kids, etc etc, then this works for us.

I donate time in the craft dept. I teach especially older girls how to make and market jewelry. It's helped me a lot of times thru the tough years, selling jewelry and it's a great hobby for many ailments, especially emotional things that girls wanna chat about.

Ok sorry
Ramblin Rose

We do something similar, IN Our Churches, The Ladies who volunteer, each bring a plate(Meaning a cook item) some bring rice, some bring meats, some bring salads and some deserts, then that is all gathered in the dining area which sits about 1200 people, most people don't want to go home to eat and since the food is so varied, from Greek to Spanish To Cuban To Mexican, they rather eat at the church, they pay $3.00 Children under 12 eat free.
So Collections on these foods is about $30,000 a week which goes into the Drug Rehab house and Missionaries we have all over the World, nothing wrong with the Church eating together and saving money at the same time,better than going to Micky D or Burger king and eatng all that fried stuff,IMO:bounce::bounce::bounce:
 
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