decreasing turkey load effectiveness

[hawglips]

I hope you like your 410 choke hal. Think of me every time you shoot one with it. Why don't you go buy you a couple of live turkeys for thanksgiving and video yourself shooting them at 90 yards with the 9's and post what happens on here for us to see. Then you might make a believer out of me. Or maybe a cat at 50.

Will a coyote at 42 work? Of course, if you can't aim straight, all bets are off...

 

[dtala]

I've done what Hal is talking about with other than TSS shells, which I've never shot.

My wifes Benelli shoots black Win Supreme #5s, and Nitro 4-5-7s in very, very tight patterns. 50-70 yard killing patterns. But tooooo tight for her inside 30 yards, like neck size patterns. So I patterned her gun with a straight modified choke and lo and behold it shot much wider, uniform patterns at 20-30 yards. Prolly max 40 yard patterns. A lot of our hunting is IN the woods, and 20-35 yard shots are the norm. She now carries both mod and extra full chokes when hunting, does most of the killing with the mod choke.

It IS possible to have toooo much choke for hunting conditions, and less than expert, cool shots

 

[NorthGaHunter]

The answer is not that simple.


Over the years I've tested 20ga shotshells several times, never being able to get the patterns I was looking for I stuck with the 12ga, it wasn't until TSS that I finally found 20ga ammo that was good enough for me to feel confident to start hunting with a 20. So what TSS has done for me is allow me to go smaller and lighter in my ammo and equipment, my 20ga only weights about 5lbs, much lighter than my 12ga. .

After reading threads about TSS for the past few years, I finally bought a me an 870 20ga. in Austust 2008. I patterned the gun with regular hevi shot (never tried Nitros), then sent the gun off to Gun Doc to get the barrel polished, trigger work done, and drill / tap for a scope. I patterned it after the work and still was not really please with the patterns....nothing against Gun Docs work. I just was not happy with the pattern at 40 yards so I continued to hunt 2009 with my HEAVY Browning 12 gauge.

I started loading TSS in Mar/April 2010. With a primos tightwad choke, I was amazed at it's performance. I did not get all my 20 ga. components till after opening week. Once I loaded/patterned the 20 gauge, I hunted with it the rest of the season. I hunt mostly the NE Ga mountains so the 20 gauge was a real pleasure to tote.

 

[Mzlhunter1]

Hal, do you guarantee these "recipes" you give out to be safe in all guns? Just wondering because I remember seeing a post on OG where you were concerned with safety.

 

[hawglips]

Hal, do you guarantee these "recipes" you give out to be safe in all guns? Just wondering because I remember seeing a post on OG where you were concerned with safety.

You should post the link to that here. What gun are you wanting to shoot my recipes in?

 

[Mzlhunter1]

As I told you I have no need for TSS, lead still works just fine. I don't go over there and read that jibberish much so you'll have to paste the link.

 

[Mzlhunter1]

So do you guarantee they are safe Hal?

 

[hawglips]

So do you guarantee they are safe Hal?

Mzl, once again, you are barking loud, but up the wrong tree. Nothing's up this one either. You sure are trying mighty hard though. It's puzzling to watch, but I've got to hand it to you -- you're putting a lot of effort into trying to discredit me and 18g/cc shot for some odd reason. Very strange.

Anyway, my 12 ga TSS loads have the chamber pressures of a typical dove load or target load (9772 psi), instead of those high pressures you're no doubt shooting with your lead turkey loads. The 20 ga. and .410 turkey loads are both in the 10000 psi range if I'm not mistaken. Can't remember exactly off the top of my head. My "buckshot" load is right at 9900 psi. I send them off to an independent lab to get proofed before I let anyone load them. All are well under CIP and SAAMI safety standards, thank you.

That's yet another beautiful thing about TSS, Mzl. You can develop lower pressured and less recoil loads with it. Easier on guns, shoulders and cheek bones -- tougher on turkeys.

In fact, I've been working on a 2-1/8 oz. load this week, that I'm wanting to raise the chamber pressures on. It was too low at around 7000 psi, even though the velocity is at 1175-1200 fps. So I'm re-doing it. If you knew anything about shotshell development, you'd know that that's kind of an odd position to be in with an extra heavy 3" turkey load. Even my 1-5/8 oz. 20 ga. load is more than 1000 psi under SAAMI. Pretty nifty, huh? Guys over at reloading sites like Shotgun World thought that was quite a trick. But it's no big deal with TSS.

 

[Mzlhunter1]

Hal, I asked if you guarantee your recipes are safe. Wasn't implying that they were or weren't so I don't see how that is trying to discredit you. You posted the pressures and that's great but I'm still wondering if you stand behind them as being safe?

 

[hawglips]

Well, pardon me for assuming you were still on your bash 'lips and TSS campaign.

Let me get this straight. You say you weren't asking in hopes to find out that they are untested possibly unsafe loads so you could finally get some traction with your bashing.

So, that only leaves two other possibilities. One is that you are very concerned about the safety of others who might load them up. Yeah, right. And so the only other possibility is that you were wanting to load them up yourself.

Well heck. I should have seen through all your previous bashing as the cover to hide your desire to load some up yourself.

Sure Mzl. I'll stand behind them, hundreds of times over. I'll even send you the lab report with the TSS so you can feel all warm and safe when you shoot them. Do you have a loader, or are you wanting to roll them? Your answer to that will dictate which recipe to send you. But since you've demonstrated to me that you don't pay any attention to numbers and such and don't place any value in them -- and since I have no control over what you do with the recipe, ain't no way I'm standing behind anything you load up. I'll stay well clear.

 

[Hookspur]

Hal;

I checked around, and there are 14 states which don't allow shot sizes smaller than 8's (DE, IL, IA, IN, ME, MA, NE, NJ, NH, NY, OR, RI, UT, and VT). Of these, 4 further restrict the use to nothing smaller than 7-1/2's (IL, IN, NE, and NJ), while 7 others limit their turkey loads to nothing smaller than 6's (DE, ME, MA, NH, OR, RI, and UT).

Just thought you'd like to know before you schedule hunts in any of these places.

Doc

 

[hawglips]

Thanks for the info Doc.

So, it looks like if I go to IA, NY or VT, I'll have to shoot TSS in #8s.
If I go to IL, IN, NE or NJ, I can load some TSS up in #7-1/2s.
If I go to DE, ME, MA, NH, OR, UT or RI, I'll just load up #6 hevishot, and hope they don't mic the shot, because there'll certainly be some in there smaller than #6. If I was a game warden in those states, and wanted to ticket someone, that would be a good way to issue some citations -- just look for those shooting hevishot #6, cut a shell open, mic it, and write them up.

 

[returntoarchery]

 

[Brad C.]

Hal, thank God your not a game warden.

 

[Mzlhunter1]

Hal, until they ban lead I'll be shooting it and if and when they do I'm sure I can find a HTL factory load that'll pattern just fine inside 40yds so I doubt ill ever need TSS or your recipes. I know your disapointed I'll never be on your prostaff but I'm sure if you keep posting up those stories of long range kills you'll have plenty of people that would love to sign up.

I had a good chuckle reading those TSS kill stories you posted. There was one where the guy misjudged by 15yds and another where the bird saw the decoys and was working his way in but the guy moved and spooked the bird forcing him to take a 60yd shot. That's a real turkey hunter right there. 60yd shot over decoys none the less. Any average Joe coulda killed that bird with that set up. Kind proves my point of the type of "hunter" and why they use TSS. As I said before I have no reason to believe you take or condone shots at those ranges but its quite evident why people want to use it.

 

[hawglips]

Mzl, so you WERE just asking "safety" question hoping to find some traction somewhere (anywhere) to bash me? Nice try anyway. You can go back and report to the cOManDER and his posse that that one didn't work either.

By the way, I'm still waiting to hear about all that hard work you do turkey hunting that you mentioned earlier. And I'm sure you have never moved or spooked a turkey in all your hard-working years as a "real turkey hunter." Of course the guy you are mocking was pretty happy with killing his first turkey like that, after years of trying. Mean, old Mzlhunter not cutting a first timer any slack at all.

Hey, but why stop at shotgun shells? Why don't you demonstrate your skills by giving up some other modern crutches that "real turkey hunters" shouldn't need? Why not make it a challenge and give up your 12 ga? How about shooting a .410? Or better yet, a longbow? Maybe a sling shot? Camo? Why not forego your face mask, seat cushion, ATV, pickup truck and comfortable boots? That would make a real turkey hunter out of you. How about your fancy calls? The Indians used to let children hunt the turkeys, in loin cloths and using a bade of grass to call them in. Those children would laugh at your lack of hunting skills.

 

[Gaswamp]

Hal, go on and admit it.....You miss Frank