Gay lobby in Vatican

[bigdawg25]

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/13/w...s-acknowledging-a-vatican-gay-lobby.html?_r=0

So Pope Francis in a private audience commented that there is a Gay lobby vying for control in Vatican. I know most folks around here dont care much for what Catholic church does, however, this news was so extraordinary that I felt it needed to be shared here. If Gay lobby can potentially have power over Catholic Church; then everyone should assume that other churches cant be that much far behind. I cant quite understand this, and neither can I draw a line as to when the utter corruption of church started.

 

[Artfuldodger]

Reading when it started:
Secrecy breeds corruption. Jesus did nothing in secret; neither did the Apostles. Ditto for their immediate successors. But the game changed when fewer then 270 of the 1800 bishops accepted Constantine' "devil's bargain" of unlimited power, wealth, etc....if the Church would connive with Mammon to become the state religion. And it was all downhill from there.
...that the other c. 1500 bishops did not attend the Council of Nicea in 325AD should give you a clue that all was not well....!
The deliberations of Conclave MUST be public, for all to see & hear! Vote by secret ballot, but speak openly. These Cardinals like to claim guidance by the Holy Spirit? Indeed He would guide them....IF they would only listen...!

"The Vatican's administrative shortcomings were thrust into stark relief last year with the publication of documents stolen from Benedict XVI's desk that exposed the petty infighting, turf battles and allegations of corruption, nepotism and cronyism in the highest echelons of the Catholic Church."

Just a couple of things I read from a blog. I guess with power comes corruption. Weird that this is coming from inside the Vatican. It appears that homosexuality isn't the main problem but a manifestation of the problem.

 

[bigdawg25]

Reading when it started:
Secrecy breeds corruption. Jesus did nothing in secret; neither did the Apostles. Ditto for their immediate successors. But the game changed when fewer then 270 of the 1800 bishops accepted Constantine' "devil's bargain" of unlimited power, wealth, etc....if the Church would connive with Mammon to become the state religion. And it was all downhill from there.
...that the other c. 1500 bishops did not attend the Council of Nicea in 325AD should give you a clue that all was not well....!
The deliberations of Conclave MUST be public, for all to see & hear! Vote by secret ballot, but speak openly. These Cardinals like to claim guidance by the Holy Spirit? Indeed He would guide them....IF they would only listen...!

"The Vatican's administrative shortcomings were thrust into stark relief last year with the publication of documents stolen from Benedict XVI's desk that exposed the petty infighting, turf battles and allegations of corruption, nepotism and cronyism in the highest echelons of the Catholic Church."

Just a couple of things I read from a blog. I guess with power comes corruption. Weird that this is coming from inside the Vatican. It appears that homosexuality isn't the main problem but a manifestation of the problem.

you are absolutely right. Usually I am the first person to defend catholic church; however revelations like this makes me think what else goes on behind closed doors at vatican. I start imagining all sorts of rotten things, and yeah I am mad not by homosexuality of that lobby per se, but the fact that there are lobbies vying for power in a CHURCH

 

[Mako22]

Hmmmmm a religion run by a bunch of men who are not allowed to get married or have a girl friend and we are surprised that they have a gay lobby???

 

[Artfuldodger]

Hmmmmm a religion run by a bunch of men who are not allowed to get married or have a girl friend and we are surprised that they have a gay lobby???

I don't think not having a wife or girlfriend would make a Christian turn gay.

 

[joey1919]

I don't think not having a wife or girlfriend would make a Christian turn gay.

yeah, i'm not married and there were lots of times i didn't have a girlfriend but ,never during those times did i feel the urge to kiss any of you

 

[bigdawg25]

I don't think not having a wife or girlfriend would make a Christian turn gay.

exactly. I am single right now, does that make me gay

However, this ban on marriage may be attracting gays to become church clergy because many straight people may be turned off by celibacy thing, that I think "could" be happening.

 

[Pale Rider]

I think it is time for members of the deaconate who have no children at home to be able to become priests. I feel this for many reasons. One is that there is a shortage of priests but alos a shortage of American priests. We have 3 in my church and I can onoy understand one of them. One is Mexican, one is Indian and the other in American and I like Saturday Mass so I always get the ones who I can't understand. It makes for a long homily.

That being said, what if the priest is gay but he is celibate? Is that any different than a heterosexual priest who is straight but celibate?

 

[Mako22]

i don't think not having a wife or girlfriend would make a christian turn gay.

duh!

 

[Artfuldodger]

exactly. I am single right now, does that make me gay

However, this ban on marriage may be attracting gays to become church clergy because many straight people may be turned off by celibacy thing, that I think "could" be happening.

Gay people aren't bothered by celibacy?

 

[Artfuldodger]

I think it is time for members of the deaconate who have no children at home to be able to become priests. I feel this for many reasons. One is that there is a shortage of priests but alos a shortage of American priests. We have 3 in my church and I can onoy understand one of them. One is Mexican, one is Indian and the other in American and I like Saturday Mass so I always get the ones who I can't understand. It makes for a long homily.

That being said, what if the priest is gay but he is celibate? Is that any different than a heterosexual priest who is straight but celibate?

I went to a Catholic funeral recently. It was a very fulfilling experience. It would have been much better if I could have understood the Priest. I was complaining about this to a friend from another Church. She said they usually never have an American Priest either and she has a hard time understanding some of them. If you can't understand them then how can they preach the word of God.

 

[bigdawg25]

Gay people aren't bothered by celibacy?

good question. What I meant was that historically there was nothing like gay marriage, so a gay person was expected from society to suppress his sexual urges, and remain celibate. Now, if someone is already going to be celibate, then obviously they'll be attracted to a profession where that virtue is highly regarded i.e. become a catholic priest.

 

[bigdawg25]

I think it is time for members of the deaconate who have no children at home to be able to become priests. I feel this for many reasons. One is that there is a shortage of priests but alos a shortage of American priests. We have 3 in my church and I can onoy understand one of them. One is Mexican, one is Indian and the other in American and I like Saturday Mass so I always get the ones who I can't understand. It makes for a long homily.

That being said, what if the priest is gay but he is celibate? Is that any different than a heterosexual priest who is straight but celibate?

I have no problems with gay priests who remain celibate. But we both know that its not happening. Gay priest prostitution scandals in Rome has proven without a doubt that priests of this so called gay lobby are very much sexually active; and then you have all those child molestation cases in Belgium, UK etc which without a doubt has hurt our church's credibility.

I agree with you that they'll have to remove this celibacy thing to become priests because otherwise no normal person will want to become a catholic priest. The language issue has never bothered me much; I have heard Indian, Irish, and Mexican priests, but then again I have been to church only handful of times in my life, so sooner or later I'll bump into an American catholic priest.

 

[Artfuldodger]

good question. What I meant was that historically there was nothing like gay marriage, so a gay person was expected from society to suppress his sexual urges, and remain celibate. Now, if someone is already going to be celibate, then obviously they'll be attracted to a profession where that virtue is highly regarded i.e. become a catholic priest.

Sounds logical and a good way for a gay man to become a better Christian, forced celibacy!

 

[chadair]

I am Catholic. I can tell ya the media turned what was said around. there is NO gay lobby in the Vatican. what the Pope said about the lobby was a joke to the people asking the questions. he also went on to say who was he to judge. his stance on Gay marriage is exactly where the church stance is and has been!!!

 

[chadair]

I think it is time for members of the deaconate who have no children at home to be able to become priests. I feel this for many reasons. One is that there is a shortage of priests but alos a shortage of American priests. We have 3 in my church and I can onoy understand one of them. One is Mexican, one is Indian and the other in American and I like Saturday Mass so I always get the ones who I can't understand. It makes for a long homily.

That being said, what if the priest is gay but he is celibate? Is that any different than a heterosexual priest who is straight but celibate?

our main pastor was born in Mexico and raised in Canada. we just had a vietnamese priest who was moved to Hartwell, and now we have one from India and we have another one from Mexico on loan for several years, but he does mainly the hispanic Mass

If you can't understand them then how can they preach the word of God.

I'm not gonna say it's not frustrating at times tryin to understand. but we do have Misals that have the scripture readings for that week, and usually our 3 scripture readings are read by a church member. Altho we do have one lady from Africa that reads and she is harder to understand

I have no problems with gay priests who remain celibate. But we both know that its not happening. Gay priest prostitution scandals in Rome has proven without a doubt that priests of this so called gay lobby are very much sexually active; and then you have all those child molestation cases in Belgium, UK etc which without a doubt has hurt our church's credibility.

I agree with you that they'll have to remove this celibacy thing to become priests because otherwise no normal person will want to become a catholic priest. The language issue has never bothered me much; I have heard Indian, Irish, and Mexican priests, but then again I have been to church only handful of times in my life, so sooner or later I'll bump into an American catholic priest.

I heard one time that the biggest reason for shortages of American Priest is family sizes these days are a lot smaller. and that limits how many young men that are available!!

 

[hummdaddy]

i have no problems with gay priests who remain celibate. But we both know that its not happening. Gay priest prostitution scandals in rome has proven without a doubt that priests of this so called gay lobby are very much sexually active; and then you have all those child molestation cases in belgium, uk etc which without a doubt has hurt our church's credibility.

I agree with you that they'll have to remove this celibacy thing to become priests because otherwise no normal person will want to become a catholic priest. The language issue has never bothered me much; i have heard indian, irish, and mexican priests, but then again i have been to church only handful of times in my life, so sooner or later i'll bump into an american catholic priest.

child molestation is not a gay thing,IT IS A CRIME AGAINST A VICTIM ,A CHILD

 

[dawg2]

Hmmmmm a religion run by a bunch of men who are not allowed to get married or have a girl friend and we are surprised that they have a gay lobby???

So Jesus and his apostles were gay?

 

[hummdaddy]

So Jesus and his apostles were gay?

he knows not what he spews

 

[Dominic]

I think it is time for members of the deaconate who have no children at home to be able to become priests. I feel this for many reasons. One is that there is a shortage of priests but alos a shortage of American priests. We have 3 in my church and I can onoy understand one of them. One is Mexican, one is Indian and the other in American and I like Saturday Mass so I always get the ones who I can't understand. It makes for a long homily.

That being said, what if the priest is gay but he is celibate? Is that any different than a heterosexual priest who is straight but celibate?

I went to a Catholic funeral recently. It was a very fulfilling experience. It would have been much better if I could have understood the Priest. I was complaining about this to a friend from another Church. She said they usually never have an American Priest either and she has a hard time understanding some of them. If you can't understand them then how can they preach the word of God.

Wouldn't it be nice if the Catholic Church had some sort of universal language at every mass, and no matter where you went you could hear the Mass in that language.

But that's crazy right. There's no language out there that the Catholic Church used for centuries and centuries which is unchanging so the meanings for the words could not change over time, like they do with all living languages. Yep crazy. Nimium malus (too bad)