"If it's not real, it's beneath you. If it is real, it's beyond you." - interesting video alert!

[oldfella1962]

The you tube video is "why you can't have a relationship with god" by dark matter 2525 that doesn't address any specific religion.
No cursing, no craziness, just a very logical stance that puts things into perspective. I did not link it because the subject matter could be
considered offensive.
Spoiler alert - the video does have an optimistic ending depending upon - you guessed it - your personal perspective. Enjoy!

 

[bullethead]

That was well worth 20mins of my time.

 

[Spotlite]

The you tube video is "why you can't have a relationship with god" by dark matter 2525 that doesn't address any specific religion.
No cursing, no craziness, just a very logical stance that puts things into perspective. I did not link it because the subject matter could be
considered offensive.
Spoiler alert - the video does have an optimistic ending depending upon - you guessed it - your personal perspective. Enjoy!

Who would have ever thunk there was a video out there that explains it all by an Atheist lol

 

[oldfella1962]

That was well worth 20mins of my time.

The beginning about the insane scale of the size of the universe blew me away. I can only imagine how much more evolved - how much more complex - a brain contained in one biological organism would have to be to function at a level needed to grasp the countless mysteries (mysteries to humans anyway) the universe holds. Any such organism would probably have zero similarities to humans. That said the sheer number of planets/moons/stars and the different configurations & interactions between them makes biological life (other than here on Earth of course) inevitable. For those who doubt that, we already have one example (Earth) proving that life is indeed possible. And if there is life advanced enough to ponder "where is everybody else?" they probably struggle with the fact that the insane distances between planets with intelligent life limits their ability to explore and/or communicate with other life forms.

But the ending is a hard truth - we are on our own. Humans have to help - or harm - other humans. There are about 4,000 versions of "wishful thinking" here on Earth in the form of religions worshipping different supernatural deities and not even ONE example proving that their existence is possible.
So to my way of thinking one globally accepted undeniable fact (humans currently exist) beats zero undeniable facts (supernatural deities exist) all day long. This situation could change tomorrow - but I wouldn't hold my breath.

 

[oldfella1962]

Who would have ever thunk there was a video out there that explains it all by an Atheist lol

I haven't heard a theistic explanation that measures up to it. Granted I haven't heard all 4,000 religious explanations yet, but the ones I have heard so far sure haven't made any sense to me.

 

[Spotlite]

I haven't heard a theistic explanation that measures up to it. Granted I haven't heard all 4,000 religious explanations yet, but the ones I have heard so far sure haven't made any sense to me.

You’re not. It’s called “biased”. We all possess it.

 

[oldfella1962]

You’re not. It’s called “biased”. We all possess it.

What do you mean by "you're not"? I'm not what? I'm just saying that none of the religious claims make sense to me.

 

[Spotlite]

What do you mean by "you're not"? I'm not what? I'm just saying that none of the religious claims make sense to me.

You said. - “I haven't heard a theistic explanation that measures up to it”

I’m agreeing with you - no theistic explanation is going to measure up for you. I tune out half of Atheist explanations by nature, I’m sure that holds true in your case for theistic explanations.

It’s faith based. We (Christians) know it’s not logical for a man that’s been dead 3 days to walk out of a tomb. After our experience we know the only way those stories can happen is by a supreme being with no parameters that we can comprehend.

The Bible stories isn’t what makes us believe, and it’s definitely not just saying “hmm I believe that so it’s gotta be true”

It’s an experience.

 

[NCHillbilly]

You said. - “I haven't heard a theistic explanation that measures up to it”

I’m agreeing with you - no theistic explanation is going to measure up for you. I tune out half of Atheist explanations by nature, I’m sure that holds true in your case for theistic explanations.

It’s faith based. We (Christians) know it’s not logical for a man that’s been dead 3 days to walk out of a tomb.

The Bible stories isn’t what makes us believe, and it’s definitely not just saying “hmm I believe that so it’s gotta be true”

It’s an experience.

And the Hindus and Buddhists and Muslims and Native American Wakan-Tanka folks and such have just as much faith as you do that they know the answers, but you would say they were wrong, as they would to you. If God exists, which I honestly think it does in some form, I don't have the beginning of pretending to understand it. It is beyond my comprehension. I will not attempt to define it or speak for it or claim to know what it wants from us, if anything.

 

[Spotlite]

And the Hindus and Buddhists and Muslims and Native American Wakan-Tanka folks and such have just as much faith as you do that they know the answers, but you would say they were wrong, as they would to you. If God exists, which I honestly think it does in some form, I don't have the beginning of pretending to understand it. It is beyond my comprehension. I will not attempt to define it or speak for it or claim to know what it wants from us, if anything.

Theres no denying they have faith. Its as simple as I don’t know the god they do.

But - the Atheist say the Christian is wrong for the same reason.

I don’t get hung up with all that anymore. A man has a reason he believes in what he does or doesn’t. It’s not my place to take that away from him.

 

[oldfella1962]

You said. - “I haven't heard a theistic explanation that measures up to it”

I’m agreeing with you - no theistic explanation is going to measure up for you. I tune out half of Atheist explanations by nature, I’m sure that holds true in your case for theistic explanations.

It’s faith based. We (Christians) know it’s not logical for a man that’s been dead 3 days to walk out of a tomb. After our experience we know the only way those stories can happen is by a supreme being with no parameters that we can comprehend.

The Bible stories isn’t what makes us believe, and it’s definitely not just saying “hmm I believe that so it’s gotta be true”

It’s an experience.

Oh I see - when you said "you're not" you meant that I am not going to hear a convincing explanation for evidence of the supernatural. I agree with that statement - the older I get the more I understand about human psychology & behavior in general, and the less likely I am to buy into anything supernatural. We both know that it's not logical for a man to be dead for three days to walk out of a tomb. The difference is you think that such stories can only happen by a supreme being with supernatural powers, while I think such stories are fiction. I guess I am an "in for a penny, in for a pound" guy, because if I believed one religion's stories of the supernatural then I would have to believe every religion's stories of the supernatural. If I believe one person's "testimony" about something religious, then why not every person's testimony? To me it's a slippery slope. I agree that personal experiences can be very convincing, but so far all my personal experiences point toward natural explanations if I slow down and think about the possibilities. I may not understand every experience - even the seemingly unbelievable ones - but if I default to "supernatural" explanations then I will stop searching for the harder to figure out natural explanations. Since the worldwide evidence for supernatural explanations still stands at zero, I can only draw the conclusion that I am mistaken when I assume that there is a supernatural explanation at play. What are the odds that I am the one person in the history of the world to be correct when I assume the unproveable to be true? I think we would both agree that my odds are slim. Just my 2 cents anyway.

 

[oldfella1962]

And the Hindus and Buddhists and Muslims and Native American Wakan-Tanka folks and such have just as much faith as you do that they know the answers, but you would say they were wrong, as they would to you. If God exists, which I honestly think it does in some form, I don't have the beginning of pretending to understand it. It is beyond my comprehension. I will not attempt to define it or speak for it or claim to know what it wants from us, if anything.

This is why the word "atheist" can be misleading at times. As an atheist I am not convinced that a god or gods exist. However I do believe that a god or gods could - in theory - exist. But I agree that if it did exist, I certainly don't think that any human could begin to explain it, define it, label it, put parameters on it, interpret its motivations and personality, and certainly not write books about it - often speaking on the behalf of it - just to tell other humans that they are not interpreting the books properly. Bottom line if there is an actual "god" in some form no human (or group of humans) has any more understanding of it nor claim to it than any other human. It seems to me that every "god" is just a reflection of the society that created it - thus we have thousands of different religions on the planet - because we have thousands of different societies.

 

[NCHillbilly]

Theres no denying they have faith. Its as simple as I don’t know the god they do.

But - the Atheist say the Christian is wrong for the same reason.

I don’t get hung up with all that anymore. A man has a reason he believes in what he does or doesn’t. It’s not my place to take that away from him.

Yep. If more people had that attitude about religion, the world would be a much more peaceful place.

 

[NCHillbilly]

This is why the word "atheist" can be misleading at times. As an atheist I am not convinced that a god or gods exist. However I do believe that a god or gods could - in theory - exist. But I agree that if it did exist, I certainly don't think that any human could begin to explain it, define it, label it, put parameters on it, interpret its motivations and personality, and certainly not write books about it - often speaking on the behalf of it - just to tell other humans that they are not interpreting the books properly. Bottom line if there is an actual "god" in some form no human (or group of humans) has any more understanding of it nor claim to it than any other human. It seems to me that every "god" is just a reflection of the society that created it - thus we have thousands of different religions on the planet - because we have thousands of different societies.

I'm not an atheist. I believe there is a higher power. I just don't believe that it exists solely as described by any of the major religions. I think the universality of religion suggests that almost everybody of every culture believes in a higher power. They just adapt their interpretation of it to fit within their culture. Which is human nature. Maybe they are all partly right, I use the analogy of seven blind men each feeling one part of an elephant and trying to form a description of the whole beast from the one small part that they are in contact with. All of them know it exists, and can guess what they are contacting, but none of them have an understanding of the parts all put together as a whole being. And none of them believe that the part they are feeling is different from the part the others are feeling.

 

[WaltL1]

Theres no denying they have faith. Its as simple as I don’t know the god they do.

But - the Atheist say the Christian is wrong for the same reason.

I don’t get hung up with all that anymore. A man has a reason he believes in what he does or doesn’t. It’s not my place to take that away from him.

Thats ^ why I feel comfortable about debating something as personal as religion/belief. I assume nothing I say is going to change a believers mind.
So it really does just boil down to debate.
If I did change someones mind about their belief then they didnt believe as much as they thought they did.

 

[oldfella1962]

Thats ^ why I feel comfortable about debating something as personal as religion/belief. I assume nothing I say is going to change a believers mind.
So it really does just boil down to debate.
If I did change someones mind about their belief then they didnt believe as much as they thought they did.

And IMHO there is nothing wrong with changing your mind or your beliefs about any subject to include hot button topics.
It just means that you were open to new or different ideas or data/information in the first place, which is (to me) very typical of a functioning brain. The very act of "learning" - even in other animals - involves changing our minds/brains to various degrees. And debate is a great tool for examining our own beliefs as we express our beliefs to others. By this I mean sometimes we all need to take a step back and listen to the words coming out of our mouths, or even the ideas in our heads. And when interacting with other humans, sometimes we need to imagine how our ideas & words expressing these ideas sound to our listeners. Are we on "auto pilot" and relying on familiar thought patterns without examining these patterns? It's hard to break out of this habit, because that is how human brains evolved. Much of our brain is on auto pilot because reinventing the wheel/ruminating on a thousand different subjects throughout our daily lives takes a lot of time & focus.

One (I have several) reason that I am an atheist is I started to really examine what I believe and why I believe it. This applies not just to religion, but to other areas in my life too. But one belief that really made a difference is also a question I asked myself: "why should religion get a pass on being examined in detail?" What makes religion so special that it gets treated differently than anything else I encounter in life?

 

[WaltL1]

And IMHO there is nothing wrong with changing your mind or your beliefs about any subject to include hot button topics.
It just means that you were open to new or different ideas or data/information in the first place, which is (to me) very typical of a functioning brain. The very act of "learning" - even in other animals - involves changing our minds/brains to various degrees. And debate is a great tool for examining our own beliefs as we express our beliefs to others. By this I mean sometimes we all need to take a step back and listen to the words coming out of our mouths, or even the ideas in our heads. And when interacting with other humans, sometimes we need to imagine how our ideas & words expressing these ideas sound to our listeners. Are we on "auto pilot" and relying on familiar thought patterns without examining these patterns? It's hard to break out of this habit, because that is how human brains evolved. Much of our brain is on auto pilot because reinventing the wheel/ruminating on a thousand different subjects throughout our daily lives takes a lot of time & focus.

One (I have several) reason that I am an atheist is I started to really examine what I believe and why I believe it. This applies not just to religion, but to other areas in my life too. But one belief that really made a difference is also a question I asked myself: "why should religion get a pass on being examined in detail?" What makes religion so special that it gets treated differently than anything else I encounter in life?

What makes religion so special that it gets treated differently than anything else I encounter in life?

I agree with that ^.
However I do understand how difficult it can be for believers to seriously examine their beliefs. Actually let me rephrase that -
I understand how difficult it can be for believers to examine their beliefs and give up those beliefs.
There isnt much else in life that offers you an awesome afterlife, seeing loved ones again, a personal "protector" etc. etc.

 

[oldfella1962]

I agree with that ^.
However I do understand how difficult it can be for believers to seriously examine their beliefs. Actually let me rephrase that -
I understand how difficult it can be for believers to examine their beliefs and give up those beliefs.
There isnt much else in life that offers you an awesome afterlife, seeing loved ones again, a personal "protector" etc. etc.

"offers you an awesome afterlife, seeing loved ones again, a personal "protector" etc. etc." - walt

What a sweet deal! It almost sounds too good to be true.
So what's the catch?

 

[WaltL1]

"offers you an awesome afterlife, seeing loved ones again, a personal "protector" etc. etc." - walt

What a sweet deal! It almost sounds too good to be true.
So what's the catch?

For the folks that believe there is no "catch".
For us heathens the catch is having to believe all these seemingly wacky stories without solid evidence/proof.
And I dont hold a "god" responsible for the wacky stories, I hold organized religion (men) responsible.

 

[ambush80]

Great video. Thanks for sharing. It made me want to look at more of his content. I'm gonna watch it again, bit by bit, and then play Devil's advocate and take the theist side, and offer the best rebuttals of the assertions put forth in the video; not only for amusement, but also to test my own beliefs.