No more "Boy Scouts"......

[Danuwoa]

I truly do not understand why on an outdoor forum there is this much dislike for Scouting. I would think getting youngsters into the outdoors would be appreciated and maybe even celebrated. Scouting is designed to teach leadership, social skills, introductory knowledge of many topics (merit badges), and a number of other things most here would think are right and appropriate.

Let's take a look at some of the things Scouting enforces...

On my honor, I will do my best
To do my duty to God and my country and to obey the Scout Law;
To help other people at all times;
To keep myself physically strong, mentally awake and morally straight.

A Scout is:
Trustworthy
Loyal
Helpful
Friendly
Courteous
Kind
Obedient
Cheerful
Thrifty
Brave
Clean
Reverent

Are all outings perfect...no. Do kids do kid things that are wrong...yes.
Humans are not perfect, especially 10-18 yr olds.

And how many times have folks on here complained about poor hunter activity/etiquette? Should we stop hunting?

While not for all, Scouting is based on much that is preached on this forum. I truly do not understand the animosity towards a construct that is pro outdoors, God, charity, kindness, and leadership.

Please take the politics out of the situation and look at the high level benefits of what youngsters could be learning.

I think a lot of that can be traced to the Scouts having the wrong kinds of leaders. I mean the individual groups and the organization as a whole. If you were in trouble would you want very many of those guys to be who you had to depend on for help?

 

[Danuwoa]

Some troops do teach and enforce those things. Scouting, while a national organization, is mostly driven at the local level.

In regards to the last sentence, isn't that close to what every older generation says about the younger one? "Dang hippie freaks from the 70's just as an example."

Every generation of Americans has thought the one after it was lazier, softer, and more disrespectful than theirs. And they’ve all been right. Look where we are.

 

[crackerdave]

Boy Scouts of America making this big change to be more inclusive

For the first time in its history, the Boy Scouts of America (BSA) will rebrand and change its name next year as it seeks to create a more inclusive organization.

www.foxnews.com

Is it because the word "boy" is considered racist by some folks?

 

[specialk]

Is it because the word "boy" is considered racist by some folks?

calling a person ''boy'' could by misgendering them as well....

 

[Railroader]

I agree, it does boil down to leaders in many regards.

But you have to keep in mind, every single leader is a volunteer. Some may want to do it, others may not. I'm a leader who's kinda in the middle, but lately I'm skewing towards the "not". But truthfully, one of the reasons pushing me towards the "not" is definitely the baby-sitting aspect. There are good kids and bad ones. At this point, I'm just burnt out and don't really care enough anymore to spend MY time dealing with someone else's disrespectful child. Part of it is, we have our hands tied on what we can do discipline-wise. I'll lay into my two sons on the spot if they get outta line (which they usually know better), but I can't do that with other kids.

Also, many unqualified adults are forced into leadership because most units are desperate, otherwise the unit could dissolve. Some of the better units, in my opinion, are run by grumpy old dudes who are retired and have both the time and old school values to whip these boys into shape.

I don't blame any adult for trying. Their heart is almost always in the right place. But it is what it is...

And there it is, from a leader himself.

It just don't work anymore.

For lack of discipline, respect, and leaders with high expectations that are willing to hurt little feelings when necessary...

Same as it was 40 years ago in my town.

Y'all carry on.

 

[GT90]

I think a lot of that can be traced to the Scouts having the wrong kinds of leaders. I mean the individual groups and the organization as a whole. If you were in trouble would you want very many of those guys to be who you had to depend on for help?

Depends on the trouble I guess. Adult leaders in our Troop consisted of engineers, lawyers, cops, owner of an HVAC company he built himself, copier repairman, accountant, commercial pilots, etc. It was a wide variety of folks and skills. If the trouble involved legal, accounting, or trade skills (HVAC, electrical, plumbing) then absolutely I would want those guys. Things that folks often have issues with.

Now if the trouble is Amrev III, well I will be looking for folks with a different skillset.

 

[GT90]

I agree, it does boil down to leaders in many regards.

But you have to keep in mind, every single leader is a volunteer. Some may want to do it, others may not. I'm a leader who's kinda in the middle, but lately I'm skewing towards the "not". But truthfully, one of the reasons pushing me towards the "not" is definitely the baby-sitting aspect. There are good kids and bad ones. At this point, I'm just burnt out and don't really care enough anymore to spend MY time dealing with someone else's disrespectful child. Part of it is, we have our hands tied on what we can do discipline-wise. I'll lay into my two sons on the spot if they get outta line (which they usually know better), but I can't do that with other kids.

Also, many unqualified adults are forced into leadership because most units are desperate, otherwise the unit could dissolve. Some of the better units, in my opinion, are run by grumpy old dudes who are retired and have both the time and old school values to whip these boys into shape.

I don't blame any adult for trying. Their heart is almost always in the right place. But it is what it is...

What you described is almost any large scale volunteer organization. There will be good and bad leaders. And there will be adults thrust into a leadership position because not enough folks want to help. I have seen the same thing happen in youth sports.

Scouting is not perfect by any means and it is only getting harder. With parents that treat the opportunity as a "daycare" or that do not ingrain in their child respect and discipline, leaders are hamstrung.

Make the right choice for you and yours and go from there. That is all we can do. And thanks for your efforts and time by stepping up for kids that are not yours.

Side story...We had a scout from a single mom family that had little to no money. He was an outlier in our troop due to economic and racial demographics. One of the things I will always remember is a moment at the end of a weekend outing. Scouts and adults would get in a circle and each would tell something they learned, enjoyed, etc. about the outing. That weekend this scout was slow to start speaking when it was his turn. When he finally did speak, in a straight up serious voice, he stated he was very happy to be a part of our troop because that was the only way he was going to experience the many things we did. He knew our troop was a way to learn that mom could not afford or had the knowledge to give him. That one stuck with me.

 

[Railroader]

What you described is almost any large scale volunteer organization. There will be good and bad leaders. And there will be adults thrust into a leadership position because not enough folks want to help. I have seen the same thing happen in youth sports.

Scouting is not perfect by any means and it is only getting harder. With parents that treat the opportunity as a "daycare" or that do not ingrain in their child respect and discipline, leaders are hamstrung.

Make the right choice for you and yours and go from there. That is all we can do. And thanks for your efforts and time by stepping up for kids that are not yours.

Side story...We had a scout from a single mom family that had little to no money. He was an outlier in our troop due to economic and racial demographics. One of the things I will always remember is a moment at the end of a weekend outing. Scouts and adults would get in a circle and each would tell something they learned, enjoyed, etc. about the outing. That weekend this scout was slow to start speaking when it was his turn. When he finally did speak, in a straight up serious voice, he stated he was very happy to be a part of our troop because that was the only way he was going to experience the many things we did. He knew our troop was a way to learn that mom could not afford or had the knowledge to give him. That one stuck with me.

Why are leaders hamstrung?

Leadership is what they are supposed to be there for.

Why is it that the obvious non-hackers are not able to be weeded out in favor of those boys who are working the plan and gaining from good leadership?

If political correctness, inclusion, and an unwillingness to hurt feelings is the answer then the ship has already sunk.

 

[Nicodemus]

When I was doing my primitive skills demos to every type group, the first thing I would do was a flint & steel fire. That was always a crowd pleaser and would settle rambunctious younguns down. Especially when I was holding the fire in my hand, then smothered it out with my other hand. No group in particular ever gave me any trouble, and were always appreciative.
.

 

[Stob]

When I was doing my primitive skills demos to every type group, the first thing I would do was a flint & steel fire. That was always a crowd pleaser and would settle rambunctious younguns down. Especially when I was holding the fire in my hand, then smothered it out with my other hand. No group in particular ever gave me any trouble, and were always appreciative.
.

That was very smart of you by starting out with getting their attention. I use to teach at work for a few years and getting their blood flowing first thing is critical. And these were men 25-50.

It's not ironic to me that using fire was your go to opener. It's been that way for long, long time for boys and men.

 

[Silver Britches]

When I was doing my primitive skills demos to every type group, the first thing I would do was a flint & steel fire. That was always a crowd pleaser and would settle rambunctious younguns down. Especially when I was holding the fire in my hand, then smothered it out with my other hand. No group in particular ever gave me any trouble, and were always appreciative.
.

Prolly cause you had fresh scalps around your neck, and a twinkle in your eyes.

 

[gobbleinwoods]

 

[GT90]

Why are leaders hamstrung?

Leadership is what they are supposed to be there for.

Why is it that the obvious non-hackers are not able to be weeded out in favor of those boys who are working the plan and gaining from good leadership?

If political correctness, inclusion, and an unwillingness to hurt feelings is the answer then the ship has already sunk.

I am not of the opinion that political correctness, inclusion, or an unwillingness to hurt feelings is hamstringing leadership in Scouting, at least at the local level.

The Scout leaders can and should provide leadership in multiple ways (example, teaching, etc.) And that leadership can be provided to the boys working the plan. A good leader can reach those boys while also handling/dealing with the not interested boys.

In my experience, leadership is not the issue of today. Our troop had good leadership. But again that is just my experience.

It is the non-interested/discipline problem boys and the "drop off their kid parents" or the "my kid can do no wrong parents" where leadership struggles. Adults can only discipline someone else's kids so much.

Two side notes...
1) We had a kid that was continually causing issues. He would lie to his parents blaming other boys for things they did not do to him. I believe he was seeking attention. The parents only believed their son's side of any issue. We scheduled a meeting between the adult troop leadership and the family. The leadership determined prior to the meeting we would suggest the boy leave the troop. Interestingly enough the family came in and stated they were leaving the troop because their son was getting picked on. We politely agreed.

2) We had a scout (about 12 yrs old) living with his grand parents because his parents were drug addicts and either were in jail or weren't allowed custody. That kid was a handful and didn't understand why he didn't always get what he wanted. One weekend we left Lawrenceville and traveled to Red Top Mtn SP. Everyone unpacked and set up for the night and had dinner. As I was chcking to make sure all the boys were in their tents, I discoverd this lad sitting under a picnic table. He refused to sleep in the tent and asked me for a map so he could walk home that night. He kept that up until I told him in a stern voice that 1) he was not getting a map, and 2) I was not calling his grandparents to come get him. He got the message and slept in the tent as he should have. He also for the most part behaved fine that weekend. I belive the grandparents were too old to handle him and were thrust into a situation where they were appeasing the boy because they felt sorry for him and/or they didn't want the conflict.

 

[ucfireman]

Leaves the door open to someone to start a new manly organization to teach boys to be men.

 

[menhadenman]

Nobody has explained the sex abuse cases. We can all talk tying knots and teaching kids this and that, but…

Boy Scouts of America sex abuse cases - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[gobbleinwoods]

Nobody has explained the sex abuse cases. We can all talk tying knots and teaching kids this and that, but…

Boy Scouts of America sex abuse cases - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

There is no explaining needed not trying to excuse it. Did it happen? I am sure it did in many cases. Just as it has in other places and organizations i.e. Catholic Church, school teachers, little league, etc. I've never personally seen it in scouting in all the years I've been involved. If the rules two deep leadership or the buddy system for youth rules had been enforced it would not have happened.

 

[Railroader]

I'm not sure what point you're still trying to prove? You're literally an outsider looking in making judgments based on what you "think" you know. You and others on here are literally basing your opinion on the one bad apple, failing to literally even acknowledge the good things that the scouting program brings. Frankly, the tunnel vision is ignorant. And, it sounds like the only different between you and me is that I ain't a quitter. I ain't given up on these kids yet. And it sounds like you wouldn't have what it takes to lead these scouts anyway.

Let's not get personal.

I've been considered an outstanding leader in the military, law enforcement, and railroad for a 35 year career of being the Go To Guy.

You come to the internet asking how to get a car to the shop...

Have a nice day.

 

[livinoutdoors]

probably a pencil pusher is my guess

He dont need my help but that ol boy you talkin bout aint never sat behind a desk and pounds them swamps pretty hard totin youngins to teach skills too. He's the real deal and has my respect.

 

[Railroader]

probably a pencil pusher is my guess

Is that all you got?

Try saying something about my mama...

 

[Dutch]

probably a pencil pusher is my guess

Lol, its great thing to see someone fixing to eat thier words.