Oats, AWP late September - topped with Rye

[Henry Road]

Before I ask about the Oats and Rye - here's where we are

Typical South Georgia Coastal Plains planted pines habitat.

We have two main plots just over an acre a piece and one about 1/2 acre that sits in a bottom. I have tried to do the "poor man's" no-till method of planting. After bringing in the bulldozer to push the stumps out (which might have been too aggressive - think I pushed away my topsoil?). I took soil samples and poured the recommended lime. For my planting process I have basically put herbicide on existing vegetation, mowed the dead veg, broadcast seed (usually store bought blend), and called it a day. I did add a cultipacker to the process last year and that help some of the germination. Planted spring and fall for the last 3 years. There is some living root in the fields but lots of bare sandy ground and we have yet to have a flush stand of anything we have planted - If the deer would eat dog fennel and fire weed - I'd be in business!

If I had a grain drill or lived in a county with agriculture or had access to borrow or rent a drill there is no doubt that's the way to go. But this fall I am going to have to get the seed in the ground (BIG problem with turkey and birds eating a lot of my seed).

This year - herbicide - (wait a week) light tillage - broadcast seed - cultipack?

I've got my pH right and I am going to focus on getting those two main plots just as plush as I can.

Now what to plant - If you have ever read of listened to Jeff Sturgis - that is where I got this idea. And sounds like if I want plush - this might be the way to go.

He recommends planting Oats (50#) and Austrian Winter Peas (50-100#) 60 days prior to first frost. That would be Mid September for me. Two weeks after that planting come in and broadcast 100# of cereal rye and 4-5 weeks after initial planting date broadcast another 100# of rye. The idea is to layer the growth - the oats and AWP take the initial browse pressure and the oats will die after the frost and the layered rye will provide a lot of green attraction all the way through the season.

Thoughts? Anybody ever tried something like this? I'm also interested to hear if anyone has any no-till no drill experience to share?

Thank

https://www.whitetailhabitatsolutions.com/blog/winter-rye-layered-food-plot-progression

 

[Marshland]

Fertilizer?

 

[Canuck5]

CNC wrote the book on (sort of) throw and mow techniques in the south and it probably would be good to skim thru this. His plots are over in Alabama and have been using that for years.

https://forum.gon.com/threads/a-new-planting-technique.877545/

Jeff Sturgis's technique has merit, but I will only caution you that oats may or may not freeze out, and continue to grow.

Plush is good, but IMHO you need that back up plan for when the cereal grains become unpalatable (too big) and the deer want to eat something more tender and tasty. I'd look at adding some brassica and clovers to your mix.



The clovers (depending on what you choose), will feed the deer year round (almost) and keep the deer on your property, so there is no reason for them to leave.



You don't have to plant the whole plot in the same thing. You can establish a perennial clover in some of your shadier spots.



Protein found in clovers (legumes) really do help your deer herd.



Just some mixes to consider

 

[GeorgeShu]

All the secrets to successful food plotting are contained in Canuck’s post.
Read CNC’s thread, very Valuable info there.
Pick what fits your situation and stick to it.
Be patient, it takes time to create quality soil structure from a disrupted area but it will happen.
Good luck and keep posting your results.

 

[Canuck5]

While you're here George Maybe you can speak about what was successful, for you, in your sandier soil. A few people have been asking about what to do there.

 

[GeorgeShu]

My sandy loam soil experience:This year marks my 20th year planting food plots in sandy loam soils in and around a pine plantation. Most on my plots are reclaimed logging decks and drag trails as a result of normal logging and clear cutting operations over the years.
Soil tests told me how to amend soil, added plenty of lime and have everage pH around 6.7.
Last 10 years have basically no-to-low till using the throw and mow method. I have used a subsoiler to break up compaction in loading decks after each harvest. i have also lightly harrowed a couple of times to cover fertilizer prior to seeding but mainly use throw and mow to reseed. Other that that it has been basically no till to max benefits of undisturbed soil to allow underground biota to thrive.
Crop rotations typically are fall seedings of wheat and rye grain combined with variations of crimson clover, arrowleaf clovers, some red clover, daikon radishes and turnips. I let all crops mature to create seed bank each season. Follow with a late summer overseeding of Buckwheat and Alyse Clover when I can get it. Let these crops grow into late Sept or early Oct before repeating the fall blend.
Also have one plot that has been in Durana clover for about 12 years. Overseed it each fall with new clover seed along with wheat and rye. Love that stuff.
This system has worked for me.

 

[Canuck5]

Thanks George!

 

[Henry Road]

Thanks guys for the responses - I have a few followup is you don't mind.

Canuck5 - I'm with you on the nutritional needs. Really like the "Save the Date" chart. If the oats don't freeze out - which is highly possible - I am practically in Florida. Are you saying you till like the Sturgis layering method and just find a substitute for Oats?

GeorgeShu - can you give me you definition of "low till"? Just letting the harrow tines cut in 1-2"? I have lots of bare spots and not enough existing vegetation (in my mind) to make the throw and mow work. At least it hasn't so far. I want to try and 'lightly' till and see if I can't increase my yield. Is that a smart move or taking a step back from soil building? Photo attached is what my main plot looked like two weeks ago. I broadcasted 50# of Buckwheat 3 weeks ago and there is not a hint of any of it. Did the same thing on another plot (sandier) and got a decent amount of germination there. I suspect the turkeys ate it off this plot? They have done that to me before - doves too I think. Sounds like you like to wait until October to plant Fall. What would think about doing a blend - Rye, Crimson Clover, and AWP ahead of moisture in October? Process of light tillage, fertilize, broadcast seed, cultipack. Would you herbicide prior of count on the harrows to terminate enough of the existing vegetation? Then come back in 2 weeks with rye and overseed as Sturgis suggests to get that layered effect. Thoughts?

Thanks for your help!

 

[GeorgeShu]

Henry, my idea on “low till” is to use the harrow lightly across the top trying to only cut 2-3 inches deep. I set the angle as straight as possible so I don’t dig deep and turn over a lot of soil. Just enough soil movement to cover the fertilizer. I then spread seed on top of that and then run a pine straw rake over that to make sure the seeds get good contact with the soil.
On my tractor I can set a stop to regulate depth of cut. Most of my plots are throw and mow but once in a while I do the low till method if the vegetation is too sparse.

I am satisfied with the mix I use. One advantage is I blend all the seeds together and am able to apply in one pass. I have JD gator that carries the seed bags and I can mount my seeder to the front brush guard. So, I can mix and go saving lots of time. If you add in the AWP, a much larger seed, then you need another trip. I feel that the blend I use creates its own layering effect for the different varieties grow at different rates and become palatable at different times through the fall, winter and spring.

I try to balance out the results I seek against work effort required and the cost of planting and maintaining food plots.

 

[Ihunt]

Just a little FYI but your oats will not freeze out. That’s only a problem when there are consecutive nights in the teens or maybe the very low 20s.

Your plan seems sound. If you’re planting in real sandy soil I would maybe try little to no fertilizer in one plot on the initial planting. After everything is up, top dress it with some extra nitrogen and maybe some 10-10-10.

Good luck and whether it works or is a massive fail please post the updates so others can learn.

 

[Henry Road]

George - In the Fall you go with - wheat AND rye + clover + brassica. I've tried the 3-way and 5-way that the local feed store sells but I don't think its the seeds fault. I'm willing to give your blend a shot. I trust your experience. At this point I just want to see a solid field of something. I might split my field and experiment.

You said you "let crops mature" - so are you basically hanging in there with your fall mix until you broadcast Buckwheat and Alyse Clover in mid-August or so? Any herbicide in the process?

Thanks

 

[Henry Road]

Just a little FYI but your oats will not freeze out. That’s only a problem when there are consecutive nights in the teens or maybe the very low 20s.

Your plan seems sound. If you’re planting in real sandy soil I would maybe try little to no fertilizer in one plot on the initial planting. After everything is up, top dress it with some extra nitrogen and maybe some 10-10-10.

Good luck and whether it works or is a massive fail please post the updates so others can learn.

The Sturgis method is banking on those frigid temps to kill the oats. Which I assume is to make room for the two additional applications of rye. I'm not getting those temps where I hunt and that is why I wanted to ask you guys - so your feedback is very helpful.

I do like the idea of spreading another layer of rye 2-3 weeks after my initial planting because - I'm tired of looking at the bare spots! Really very weak performance so far trying the no-till (no drill) approach on land that has only seen pine trees and gallberries for generations.

But I'm willing to keep swinging. I will definitely document and report back - that will help me too. Thanks!

 

[GeorgeShu]

Henry, the arrowleaf clover really starts growing when to temps rise in late spring and is very palatable on in to late June. If you throw in medium red clover it loves the hot summer weather and will produce through August.
I let the arrowleaf dry down and usually spray glypho to kill any summer weeds. Throw and mow the buckwheat and Alyse clover in early August.

Experiment, plant different mixes, split plots, different stuff in different plots, etc. Observe results and try something new if need be. Be patient and you will find some method thats works in your situatio..
Keep us posted on your results, we may want to try something that you do!

 

[Ihunt]

The Sturgis method is banking on those frigid temps to kill the oats. Which I assume is to make room for the two additional applications of rye. I'm not getting those temps where I hunt and that is why I wanted to ask you guys - so your feedback is very helpful.

I do like the idea of spreading another layer of rye 2-3 weeks after my initial planting because - I'm tired of looking at the bare spots! Really very weak performance so far trying the no-till (no drill) approach on land that has only seen pine trees and gallberries for generations.

But I'm willing to keep swinging. I will definitely document and report back - that will help me too. Thanks!

If you broadcast the winter rye and do NOT get a food plot I have no other suggestions. That stuff will germinate in a dirty truck bed or in the cracks of your trailer.

I guess my only other suggestion would be a very large free choice feeder.

 

[Canuck5]

George - In the Fall you go with - wheat AND rye + clover + brassica. I've tried the 3-way and 5-way that the local feed store sells but I don't think its the seeds fault. I'm willing to give your blend a shot. I trust your experience. At this point I just want to see a solid field of something. I might split my field and experiment.

You said you "let crops mature" - so are you basically hanging in there with your fall mix until you broadcast Buckwheat and Alyse Clover in mid-August or so? Any herbicide in the process?

Thanks

The issue with the 3way and 5 way seed blends, is you are forced to plant them all at the same seed depth, whatever "that is", which may have been an issue in the past for you. If you work your ground, spread your big seed and you can cultipack it or lightly till it again and then cultipack once more. Then spread your small seeds and cultipack once last time.

I think Jeff Sturgis's plan has some merit, "if" you have high deer densities and and small plots, where the deer keep wearing them out.

This plot had the seeds planted at the correct depth and not all at once. It's not pretty, but this is what a blend of wheat/oats, crimson clover, arrowleaf clover, medium red clover, radish and turnip looked like on 10-24-15



On 7-10-16



And 9-17-16



There was still medium red clover there, feeding deer, before I planted my fall crop for 2016.

 

[Henry Road]

Canuck5 - That looks good to me. Exactly what I hope for this fall!

Just got my soil test back for my biggest plot. pH 5.9 - so adding another 1.25 tons of lime asap.

 

[Ihunt]

5.9 isn’t that bad. It’s not going to keep your plots from germinating and taking hold but that extra lime is a good idea. If it’s very sandy, you may have to toss out a little lime every year. Sand will allow the lime to leach out quickly compared to a heavier soil.

 

[Henry Road]

Ihunt - 10-4 on the leaching. Typically we start in the 4s. This field was 4.0 in 2018. Thrown 5 tons at it twice.

Don't know if you can cipher these numbers but left side is the mineral readings from 2018 soil test / 2020 on the right.

(Mineral) 2018/2020
(P) - 8/15
(K) - 16/16
(Cal) - 203/1543
(Mag) - 49/232
(Z) - 1/1

pH 4.0/5.9

 

[Tight Lines]

CNC wrote the book on (sort of) throw and mow techniques in the south and it probably would be good to skim thru this. His plots are over in Alabama and have been using that for years.

https://forum.gon.com/threads/a-new-planting-technique.877545/

Jeff Sturgis's technique has merit, but I will only caution you that oats may or may not freeze out, and continue to grow.

Plush is good, but IMHO you need that back up plan for when the cereal grains become unpalatable (too big) and the deer want to eat something more tender and tasty. I'd look at adding some brassica and clovers to your mix.

View attachment 1034356

The clovers (depending on what you choose), will feed the deer year round (almost) and keep the deer on your property, so there is no reason for them to leave.

View attachment 1034357

You don't have to plant the whole plot in the same thing. You can establish a perennial clover in some of your shadier spots.

View attachment 1034359

Protein found in clovers (legumes) really do help your deer herd.

View attachment 1034360View attachment 1034361

Just some mixes to consider

View attachment 1034362View attachment 1034363

That is an awesome post! I love the graphics and details! Thank you!

 

[Ihunt]

Ihunt - 10-4 on the leaching. Typically we start in the 4s. This field was 4.0 in 2018. Thrown 5 tons at it twice.

Don't know if you can cipher these numbers but left side is the mineral readings from 2018 soil test / 2020 on the right.

(Mineral) 2018/2020
(P) - 8/15
(K) - 16/16
(Cal) - 203/1543
(Mag) - 49/232
(Z) - 1/1

pH 4.0/5.9

With a ph of 4 it’s not surprising nothing would grow. 4 is as bad as I’ve ever heard. Congrats on getting it up to 5.9 I would think your plots would be a lot better this year