United Methodists repeal longstanding ban on LGBTQ clergy

[brutally honest]

One thing that bothers me is how some on here feel like your animosity towards the Church keeps you from "getting over it" so that you can return.
While I agree that you have animosity towards organized religion, so do I but it doesn't keep me away from what I believe. It just keeps me out of organized religion.

The church has always been “organized”.

“For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee …” — Titus 1:5

 

[brutally honest]

If I was in a denomination that did something like that and didn't like it, I'd change denominations.

One quarter of the UMC already did.

 

[NCHillbilly]

The church has always been “organized”.

“For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee …” — Titus 1:5

Jesus rebelled against the corruption and self-righteousness in the organized religion of the time, turned it on its head, and was killed for it. He showed respect for sinners, prostitutes, and social outcasts, and it didn't go over well.

 

[furtaker]

Jesus rebelled against the corruption and self-righteousness in the organized religion of the time, turned it on its head, and was killed for it. He showed respect for sinners, prostitutes, and social outcasts, and it didn't go over well.

And he also said he was the only way to the Father.

Which you don't agree with.

 

[Danuwoa]

I know for a fact the things I’ve stated in here are my beliefs which aren’t up for debate. Beliefs are like that. I also know I said nobody has to agree or even take them seriously. Anybody who gets offended by that and can’t handle it thinks way too much of themselves.

 

[NCHillbilly]

And he also said he was the only way to the Father.

Which you don't agree with.

I don't know what I agree with. I don't speak for God.

 

[NCHillbilly]

I know for a fact the things I’ve stated in here are my beliefs which aren’t up for debate. Beliefs are like that. I also know I said nobody has to agree or even take them seriously. Anybody who gets offended by that and can’t handle it thinks way too much of themselves.

I think you are very mistaken that it offends me. It doesn't, in any way, unless you look down on me and condemn me and write me off as a person because I don't share all of them. I don't think very much of myself, either. I'm pretty sorry in many ways. I just ask for the same respect and validation for my personal beliefs that you expect for yours and for you not being offended by and not being able to handle my beliefs. That's the durn kicker, ain't it?

 

[NCHillbilly]

And he also said he was the only way to the Father.

Which you don't agree with.

Did he actually, or did somebody with a pen and a piece of paper put those words in his mouth a hundred years after he died? I don't know. There is no way for either of us to know for sure.

 

[furtaker]

Did he actually, or did somebody with a pen and a piece of paper put those words in his mouth a hundred years after he died? I don't know. There is no way for either of us to know for sure.

I believe he said it. I'm assuming you also believe he actually said it since you were quoting other things he did from Scripture like it actually happened.

 

[GeorgiaBob]

Are there any members of the UMC following this discussion that we are all so concerned about? If I was in a denomination that did something like that and didn't like it, I'd change denominations. Even if your Church doesn't change, it still represents that denomination that you don't agree with.
What about other liberal changes in the Church that have evolved since the 50's?
Christians seem to evolve, even the conservative ones over decades but Islam never has.
I was just reading that some think the Catholic Church will return to being more conservative after the really old folk die off.

I am a lifelong Methodist and was once very much a part of the larger church. No longer. There are two former UMCs near me, both left the Annual Conference but have not (yet?) joined the Global Methodist Church. My days of worshipping in a church are absolutely NOT over, but I am no longer a member of the UMC.

 

[Artfuldodger]

So this co-worker tells me that since I was baptized using the wrong formula I was going to He11.
It's things like that within organized religion that I feel is wrong. Maybe it was his delivery.
I don't blame the Church and agree the "Church" has been here at least since Paul was tasked with spreading the Gospel.
Organized Christianity goes back to at least Moses?

 

[Artfuldodger]

The United Methodist Church was officially created in 1968. Wasn't there a Methodist denomination before 1968? I think that splinter was due to segregation.
May 4, 1956 General Conference voted for full clergy rights to women. I'm not sure if that one caused any problems.

Paul's comments in I Timothy 2:8-15 (NRSV):

I desire, then, that in every place the men should pray, lifting up holy hands without anger or argument; also that the women should dress themselves modestly and decently in suitable clothing, not with their hair braided, or with gold, pearls, or expensive clothes, but with good works, as is proper for women who profess reverence for God. Let a woman learn in silence with full submission. I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she is to keep silent. For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor. Yet she will be saved through childbearing, provided they continue in faith and love and holiness, with modesty.

1 Corinthians 11:3 says, “But I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.”

Wouldn't women preachers be as wrong as homosexuality in terms of Church rules and bylaws? If it's Scripture, then it's Scripture.
Plus not only preachers but women in general. "suitable clothing, not with their hair braided, or with gold, pearls, or expensive clothes."

 

[brutally honest]

Jesus rebelled against the corruption and self-righteousness in the organized religion of the time, turned it on its head, and was killed for it. He showed respect for sinners, prostitutes, and social outcasts …

Did he actually, or did somebody with a pen and a piece of paper put those words in his mouth a hundred years after he died?

 

[Oldstick]

The United Methodist Church was officially created in 1968. Wasn't there a Methodist denomination before 1968?

Yep, I seem to recall it was just "Methodist" before that. I think there was a merger with some other denomination or possibly another flavor of Methodist to become the UMC.

 

[The Original Rooster]

Regardless of your religious beliefs or even what religion did it, the majority of an entire denominational group voted in opposition to the rulebook it supposedly believes in.
Those of you who hate hypocrisy in individual church members should easily understand the hypocrisy of the action taken by these churches.
It would be akin to Hindus voting to start eating steak despite their holy texts saying that it is absolutely forbidden.

We all fight hypocrisy within ourselves everyday but when an entire organization chooses to embrace and celebrate hypocrisy, that should concern you enough to not involve yourself with them no matter what other good they may do.

 

[NCHillbilly]

Did he actually, or did somebody with a pen and a piece of paper put those words in his mouth a hundred years after he died?

That is also true. We simply don't know?

 

[NCHillbilly]

I believe he said it. I'm assuming you also believe he actually said it since you were quoting other things he did from Scripture like it actually happened.

Like I said, I honestly don't know.

 

[NCHillbilly]

Regardless of your religious beliefs or even what religion did it, the majority of an entire denominational group voted in opposition to the rulebook it supposedly believes in.
Those of you who hate hypocrisy in individual church members should easily understand the hypocrisy of the action taken by these churches.
It would be akin to Hindus voting to start eating steak despite their holy texts saying that it is absolutely forbidden.

We all fight hypocrisy within ourselves everyday but when an entire organization chooses to embrace and celebrate hypocrisy, that should concern you enough to not involve yourself with them no matter what other good they may do.

Yep. The UMC is going against their supposed core beliefs in order to satisfy changing societal norms.

 

[Danuwoa]

Regardless of your religious beliefs or even what religion did it, the majority of an entire denominational group voted in opposition to the rulebook it supposedly believes in.
Those of you who hate hypocrisy in individual church members should easily understand the hypocrisy of the action taken by these churches.
It would be akin to Hindus voting to start eating steak despite their holy texts saying that it is absolutely forbidden.

We all fight hypocrisy within ourselves everyday but when an entire organization chooses to embrace and celebrate hypocrisy, that should concern you enough to not involve yourself with them no matter what other good they may do.

Like I said, our church disaffiliated with the United Methodist Church some time back over this issue so for now anyway we’re good where this is concerned.

 

[The Original Rooster]

Yep. The UMC is going against their supposed core beliefs in order to satisfy changing societal norms.

Imagine going to a church where they say, "Welcome to our congregation of hypocrites. We're hypocrites, but we're trying and you're welcome to try with us".
Versus:
"Welcome to our congregation of hypocrites. We know we're hypocrites but we don't care because it's more convenient and it makes us feel better to pretend like we're righteous and best of all, the world pats us on the back for acting this way".

Which sounds like it has conviction in its beliefs?

Like I said, our church disaffiliated with the United Methodist Church some time back over this issue so for now anyway we’re good where this is concerned.

Yep, this is the answer.