United Methodists repeal longstanding ban on LGBTQ clergy

[Tight Lines]

Yeah everybody knows that one.

I'm sure that's true...it was just very much a comical truism in that little town...seems like no matter which one you went to though (we went to the Baptist church) around a bonfire in a wheat field everyone was filling up the solo cups at the keg...

 

[Spotlite]

The ambiguousness and contradictions in the Bible is one reason that there are hundreds of different denominations that believe they are right, and everyone else is wrong.

This seems pretty downright plain and straightforward, though:
"If a man also lie with mankind as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death: their blood shall be upon them."

While I agree that there are numerous denominations……I don’t believe it’s because of “contradictions. Right now there are tons of homosexuals saying the scripture you quoted below is contradictory to other scriptures where “God’s love” is abundant enough to overlook…….when in fact it agrees with tons of scripture that teach against the homosexual lifestyle.,

Numerous denominations exist because man can goof up a stop sign. I know - the Bible is the Word of God. Yea, but “there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ”

I have to agree with you - "If a man also lie with mankind as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death: their blood shall be upon them." definitely is pretty downright plain and straightforward,

 

[Artfuldodger]

I think more than being about homosexuality it's really about sex. Back in Paul's time and he talks a lot about it, sex was viewed differently than how it is now. It was more or less for procreation and only tolerated for that purpose among married folk.
Fast forward to now and even in Conservative Churches, sex is pretty much OK for fun.
Paul talked about celibacy and even remaining single. Today that's sorta frowned upon.
In the 70's when I was a teen, sex was taught to be wrong until you were married.

Sex back in Paul's time was part of that plan of God over Christ, Christ over Church, and Man over Woman. All that changed with the equality thing of the 60's. Not a Christian concept but a worldly concept.
But even the concept that sex is an equal thing between a man and woman is now a Christian thing. We no longer see the man as the dominate partner.
Now that is where the confusion comes in. If no dominate partner and sex for fun is OK? Plus premarital sex is OK among Christians, heck we even brag about it. We brag about lust. Sex is not a big deal like it used to be among Christian males.
Nowadays we don't know what to believe. Sex has been all confused. The Christian rules have changed.
Some folk wonder if sex is for fun and no dominate partner, how in the world can I know what to think about homosexual sex.
The Christian rules about sex have changed with Christians having sex. If all that stuff in the Bible about heterosexual sex and marriage and divorce is long gone, then how do we know what to think about homosexual sex?
Christians still believe homosexuality is wrong, but they have difficulty articulating convincing reasons why. They can't even explain why all the rules about heterosexual sex has changed and is now accepted, much less gay sex.

 

[Spotlite]

1 I think more than being about homosexuality it's really about sex. Back in Paul's time and he talks a lot about it, sex was viewed differently than how it is now. It was more or less for procreation and only tolerated for that purpose among married folk.

2. Sex back in Paul's time was part of that plan of God over Christ, Christ over Church, and Man over Woman. All that changed with the equality

3. Sex has been all confused. The Christian rules have changed.

4. Christians still believe homosexuality is wrong, but they have difficulty articulating convincing reasons why.

1. Read about fasting and how long a married couple should abstain and why. And study fornication.

2. It didn’t change for everyone.

3. How? What rules? Remember - Christian is Christ-like. They were first called Christians at Antioch , why? Has Christ changed?

4. You can’t convince anyone who believes it’s not wrong. There are some clear and straightforward scripture. The Hillbilly gave you one - there are more.

 

[brutally honest]

Right now there are tons of homosexuals saying the scripture you quoted below is contradictory to other scriptures where “God’s love” is abundant enough to overlook…….

They also quote Ezekiel 16:49 to show that the “real” reason Sodom was destroyed had nothing to do with homosexuality.

“Sodom’s sins were pride, gluttony, and laziness, while the poor and needy suffered outside her door.” - Ezekiel 16:49

 

[Artfuldodger]

1. Read about fasting and how long a married couple should abstain and why. And study fornication.

2. It didn’t change for everyone.

3. How? What rules? Remember - Christian is Christ-like. They were first called Christians at Antioch , why? Has Christ changed?

4. You can’t convince anyone who believes it’s not wrong. There are some clear and straightforward scripture. The Hillbilly gave you one - there are more.

And there are some straight forward scripture on heterosexual sex, marriage, divorce, and man being over women. Christ hasn't changed and neither has scripture. All I'm saying is if Christians have evolved over all the heterosexual scripture how could we not be confused as to what to believe about homosexual scripture?
If lust and fornication are now hip and cool for Christian men to talk about at work, then how are we to know that the gay sex rules are still in the play book?

 

[menhadenman]

My sister goes to wine tastings at her Methodist church. Our Baptist church I grew up in would say you'll go to hel for drinking wine, even though Jesus did.
My church is the mountains, the woods, and the flowing streams.

Here ya go buddy… sounds like a few trips with my buddies.

“Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing. They say unto him, We also go with thee. They went forth, and entered into a ship immediately; and that night they caught nothing” (John 21:3).

 

[menhadenman]

Get woke go broke… churches musta missed the scamdemic and bud light marketing success. Good luck!

 

[NE GA Pappy]

I have been on a few trips like that myself.

 

[NCHillbilly]

I think more than being about homosexuality it's really about sex. Back in Paul's time and he talks a lot about it, sex was viewed differently than how it is now. It was more or less for procreation and only tolerated for that purpose among married folk.
Fast forward to now and even in Conservative Churches, sex is pretty much OK for fun.
Paul talked about celibacy and even remaining single. Today that's sorta frowned upon.
In the 70's when I was a teen, sex was taught to be wrong until you were married.

Sex back in Paul's time was part of that plan of God over Christ, Christ over Church, and Man over Woman. All that changed with the equality thing of the 60's. Not a Christian concept but a worldly concept.
But even the concept that sex is an equal thing between a man and woman is now a Christian thing. We no longer see the man as the dominate partner.
Now that is where the confusion comes in. If no dominate partner and sex for fun is OK? Plus premarital sex is OK among Christians, heck we even brag about it. We brag about lust. Sex is not a big deal like it used to be among Christian males.
Nowadays we don't know what to believe. Sex has been all confused. The Christian rules have changed.
Some folk wonder if sex is for fun and no dominate partner, how in the world can I know what to think about homosexual sex.
The Christian rules about sex have changed with Christians having sex. If all that stuff in the Bible about heterosexual sex and marriage and divorce is long gone, then how do we know what to think about homosexual sex?
Christians still believe homosexuality is wrong, but they have difficulty articulating convincing reasons why. They can't even explain why all the rules about heterosexual sex has changed and is now accepted, much less gay sex.

Nah, people were running around fornicating back then just like they are now, or worse, in some cases. Look at some of the surviving ancient Roman and Greek murals from that time in that part of the world. Straight-up porn. Paul was not running in the same circles as the common man/woman by the time he took to scribbling.
Times change. People as a whole generally don't.

 

[Spotlite]

And there are some straight forward scripture on heterosexual sex, marriage, divorce, and man being over women. Christ hasn't changed and neither has scripture. All I'm saying is if Christians have evolved over all the heterosexual scripture how could we not be confused as to what to believe about homosexual scripture?
If lust and fornication are now hip and cool for Christian men to talk about at work, then how are we to know that the gay sex rules are still in the play book?

I know you’re looking at all views for discussion purposes but I don’t believe anything has changed except man.

God’s design - one man / one woman in a marriage has and never will change.

Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination:

For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

For *****mongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female

Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.

Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh

And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly,

 

[NCHillbilly]

I know you’re looking at all views for discussion purposes but I don’t believe anything has changed except man.

God’s design - one man / one woman in a marriage has and never will change.

Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination:

For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

For *****mongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female

Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.

Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh

And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly,

I don't think man has changed much, either, or they wouldn't have written all that back then.

 

[Ruger#3]

The church I attend was established when a group of Anglicans said no to gay clergy and marriage ceremonies for gays in the Episcopal church.
Yes, the old church was structured to keep the church property. A neighboring church of another faith worked out a schedule to allow both groups to meet in their building. A new church was eventually built. This will be the pattern as this heresy is dealt with.

 

[Artfuldodger]

I don't think man has changed much, either, or they wouldn't have written all that back then.

I would agree all that has been going on since man came to be. Thus why God or someone came up with all the rules. Seems like hearing stories my parents tell, sex, drinking, and gambling were big in may super religious ancestry. Great Grandpa would get drunk but the kids were not allowed to play cards!
I think though what has changed is the acceptance aspect of a lot of things.
The way Christians now feel about equality with women, mixed marriages, fornication, virginity, lust, young couples having sex as they wait until they are older to get married. Old couples having sex after their first spouse dies without getting re-married. Thoughts on divorce, drinking, and even gambling(lottery tickets.)
Feelings on self-righteousness, pride, coveting, gossip, hatred, and judgement have changed.
Self pleasure is not frowned upon these days. I think going back even further in time, like the Puritans era, Christians in general tried to be holier maybe?
Maybe like my great grandpa's era, they tried to be holier, they just weren't too good at it. But I don't feel like most Christians these days try to be meek, humble, holy, loving, caring, etc., as much as they did in my Great Grandpa's era.
It's almost like we are all good and evil at the same time. I know some good homosexuals and some evil heterosexuals. Except tax collectors, they are all evil.

 

[NCHillbilly]

I would agree all that has been going on since man came to be. Thus why God or someone came up with all the rules. Seems like hearing stories my parents tell, sex, drinking, and gambling were big in may super religious ancestry. Great Grandpa would get drunk but the kids were not allowed to play cards!
I think though what has changed is the acceptance aspect of a lot of things.
The way Christians now feel about equality with women, mixed marriages, fornication, lust, young couples having sex as they wait until they are older to get married. Old couples having sex after their first spouse dies without getting re-married. Thoughts on divorce, drinking, and even gambling(lottery tickets.)
Self pleasure is not frowned upon these days. I think going back even further in time, like the Puritans era, Christians in general tried to be holier maybe?
Maybe like my great grandpa's era, they tried to be holier, they just weren't too good at it. But I don't feel like most Christians these days try to be meek, humble, holy, loving, caring, etc., as much as they did in my Great Grandpa's era.
It's almost like we are all good and evil at the same time. I know some good homosexuals and some evil heterosexuals. Except tax collectors, they are all evil.

You had your enclaves of Puritans, but that wasn't the world in general. A hundred and fifty years ago in America, brothels were legal and there were several in every town.

 

[Spotlite]

I don't think man has changed much, either, or they wouldn't have written all that back then.

True. Men have always been men. Maybe it looks like men have changed more because there’s more of us now.

 

[The Original Rooster]

I don't think man has changed much, either, or they wouldn't have written all that back then.

Yep, there are no new sins. The same old ones still fit us just fine.

 

[Oldstick]

My little town in KS had two churches...

Baptist and Methodist...

There was a running joke...

You know the difference in a Baptist and a Methodist? The Methodist will say hi to you in the liquor store...

Then later into the 1970s, when most Baptist and Methodist churches had eased off on the hard line stance of boycotting any businesses open on Sundays, "You better hit the restaurant by 12:02 pm unless you want to wait in line behind all the Methodists."

 

[Tight Lines]

Then later into the 1970s, when most Baptist and Methodist churches had eased off on the hard line stance of boycotting any businesses open on Sundays, "You better hit the restaurant by 12:02 pm unless you want to wait in line behind all the Methodists."

Well played...I hadn't heard that one...

 

[NE GA Pappy]

I thought this explained the issue very clearly.