Hospice / Deathbed

I would like to know if anyone who believes there is no "god" has ever spent time speaking with a hospice nurse? If you never have, then you should.

I will tell you what I know and almost every hospice nurse will tell you. This is what they see patients do at the end with regularity REGARDLESS OF DENOMINATION (and even atheists):

1) Speak with loved ones who are dead. Almost every one of them interact with a DECEASED loved one. Not a currently living but deceased. Why would they interact with only deceased?

2) Speak of angelic beings. Many describe in detail a being in the room or over their bed.

3) Almost every single one while laying on the bed reaches up in the air to someone or something. They usually describe something as beautiful.

These three items are merely a tiny portion of what happens to most on their deathbed, but seem to be the regularly occurring experiences.

Some may just say they are hallucinations. But it wouldn't make sense to brush it off as merely a hallucination. They all (regardless of age, race, or religion) have the same commonalities. One nurse even said that NONE of her patients ever die alone if they are coherent. There is someone or something that ALWAYS comes for them.

See, when the body is dying, the brain knows it and all resources are then dedicated to saving the brain. This occurs even in traumatic injury. The brain is to be protected. It is the "King" on the chess board.

Now we can disagree all day long about which religion is best or right. It doesn't matter. Because one thing the nurses will tell you, is these beings that come don't ask if you were baptized, if you believe in Jesus, if you are Baptist / Mormon, etc., but they do come.

The brain defaults into it's most primitive basic instinct at the end: SURVIVAL. All assets are dedicated to the brain for survival, so it makes no sense whatsoever to generate energy into frivolous hallucinations. It would be akin to you being in the midst of a terrible car crash with only seconds to survive. Instead of taking time to save yourself, you calmly take out a pack of cigarettes, get your lighter out, light up a smoke and then resume corrective action.

I am currently dealing with a loved one who is on their deathbed and not expected to live another day. It leaves a lot of questions when you see what they experience. But one thing it does do, is assure you there truly is something else at death. It isn't finality. It is just another door we go through and most assuredly, someone or something does hold your hand as you go through it.

I've heard those story's too from one of the hospice nurses that attended my Daddy.
For your situation.

I am very sorry for your situation dawg.

My grandmother died in my parents home. I also experience several strokes with her. I'd repeatedly visit her at the hospital and she would talk about my grandfather, her husband, who had been dead for at least 15 years. She talked about neighbors from where she used to live, her dead sisters.. everyone that wasn't there. I would sit beside her bed and watch her talk to people that weren't there.

I would also say there's no way you, or any hospice nurse can say that someone ALWAYS comes to get people. Maybe they see it often.

What I saw was her mind wandering. Going back to things that were way back in the files. And since her brain was debilitated, it was projecting these thoughts as actually happening. She had several strokes and nearly recovered 100% from those times.

It's comforting to many to believe that they're speaking with dead relatives, that there are angels coming to take them away to a place where we'll see them again. No doubt.

If what you say is correct (maybe it is, I don't know) that all "resources" are trying to save the brain in those last minutes or seconds does that mean that it's got to be enough resources for normal brain activity? Someone on hospice isn't dieing in a split second. They are on hospice due to rapidly failing health. Their resources are nearly gone by the time already when hospice starts. I think there is hardly evidence to say that their bodies have enough resources to work at a normal level.

I can't even think about how being on my deathbed would feel. It's got to be crazy. Crazy enough to make me see or feel things that may not be there. Whether baptist, mormon or atheist, we've all heard about a god of some kind. Decreased brain activity, knowing death is there... Hallucinations of some kind seem much more likely to me...

Prayers sent for your loved one, you, and your family...

I've seen this many times over my life as I've lost nearly everyone in family thus far, with the exception of my mom. For all (where I was present at their passing), there was talk of loved ones from the past coming to greet them and help them pass into the next realm whatever or wherever that may be. Maybe it is just a comfort for them in their time of passing, who knows. I find it strange though that so many from the past would come by to visit just before their passing. My dad spoke of it days before his death. He claimed to see his grandfather and other beings coming to his hospice room to help him let go. If nothing else, I found comfort in it.

Jranger said:

Prayers sent for your loved one, you, and your family...

I've seen this many times over my life as I've lost nearly everyone in family thus far, with the exception of my mom. For all (where I was present at their passing), there was talk of loved ones from the past coming to greet them and help them pass into the next realm whatever or wherever that may be. Maybe it is just a comfort for them in their time of passing, who knows. I find it strange though that so many from the past would come by to visit just before their passing. My dad spoke of it days before his death. He claimed to see his grandfather and other beings coming to his hospice room to help him let go. If nothing else, I found comfort in it.

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That seems to be the common them: Deceased relatives or friends appearing. It seems odd the overwhelming majority see deceased loved ones. A couple of the hospice nurses I have spoken with said they were convinced "someone or something" came for the people before they died.

If that was the case did the people come for my grandmother after her strokes because they "thought" it was the end for her, but it turned out not to be? They should know that it wasn't going to be the end for her and waited for the real thing, if they were actually going to lead her out.

My grandfather also told us about dieing during a heart attack and he talked to god himself. He asked for one more Christmas with his family and he got it. Again, he had just had a heart attach... brains don't function well or correctly under those circumstances.

I know I'm not going to change your mind. Just telling you about my experiences.

It is no different than the vivid realistic dreams we experience in our lives. We fly and do things we could never do otherwise. We hold in depth detailed conversations with people we have never seen in our lives and in places we have never been. Our brains gather and store things we will never consciously know about. How and when and why it accesses the info is anyones guess.

I have no doubt that on out death bed our brains are on overdrive. I wonder how many people that have NEVER heard of any religion speak of angels and such?

I wonder how many people have never heard of any religion...

dawg2 said:

I am currently dealing with a loved one who is on their deathbed and not expected to live another day. It leaves a lot of questions when you see what they experience.

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May you find strength and peace in the days to come. I know firsthand how tough it can be to watch.

Not every passing is easy nor is it always as described above.

TripleXBullies said:

I can't even think about how being on my deathbed would feel. It's got to be crazy. Crazy enough to make me see or feel things that may not be there. Whether baptist, mormon or atheist, we've all heard about a god of some kind. Decreased brain activity, knowing death is there... Hallucinations of some kind seem much more likely to me...

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I can't even imagine being in the above position, knowing that things I am seeing will only be for a moment and that all I have heard throughout my living in this temporary place was true. Thank God I am saved and will get to continue on this journey for eternity.

Odd that she would know so much. You hear about people waking up mentally during their surgey.. Maybe her sense of hearing was up during surgery and she heard what they were saying? I've been out for surgery once... and I was O-U-T.

One more thing to add, and I'm not equating dogs to people in any rude or insensitive way. I had a 20 year old dalmation as a kid that had to be put to sleep when I was about 18. That dog went off the deep end the last few days of her life. She'd pace through the garage making odd noises. Her mind was going. Her body couldn't support proper brain function. Of course I have no idea what was going through her mind, but it wasn't normal dog thoughts. Oddly enough, my sister tried to get the demons out of her...

bullethead said:

It is no different than the vivid realistic dreams we experience in our lives. We fly and do things we could never do otherwise. We hold in depth detailed conversations with people we have never seen in our lives and in places we have never been. Our brains gather and store things we will never consciously know about. How and when and why it accesses the info is anyones guess.

I have no doubt that on out death bed our brains are on overdrive. I wonder how many people that have NEVER heard of any religion speak of angels and such?

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Sure, we have vivid dreams. However, the point you are missing: The dying are interacting with other deceased people.

Best wishes and prayers to you, daw2, during this difficult time. I hope that your loved on is able to take the next step into God's embrace with courage and peace.

The thing that really helped us during a similar time was having our minister available a great deal. His prayers and guidance were of great value.

dawg2 said:

Sure, we have vivid dreams. However, the point you are missing: The dying are interacting with other deceased people.

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Not NECESSARILY.. IMO my grandmother interacted with the thought of other deceased people. Not their soul coming back to see her. Her mind was in such a dellusional state that old memories came out.. Drugs can do the same thing to the brain. I don't really believe anyone here would say that mind altering drugs are putting them in touch with gods or deceased people... Although in some culutures the shaman or other holy men do just this to contact the spirits.

TripleXBullies said:

Not NECESSARILY.. IMO my grandmother interacted with the thought of other deceased people. Not their soul coming back to see her. Her mind was in such a dellusional state that old memories came out.. Drugs can do the same thing to the brain. I don't really believe anyone here would say that mind altering drugs are putting them in touch with gods or deceased people... Although in some culutures the shaman or other holy men do just this to contact the spirits.

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I never said "souls" were coming back.

Not to belittle your single experience with your grandmother. But have you ever discussed it with about 15-20 people that do this for a living? People that spend entire days with the dying, all year long? I personally have spoken to the caregivers over the years. The caregivers' experiences overwhelmingly point to ineraction wih deceased people. Not saying they do not "hallucinate" or the experience is different than with others with brain damage (i.e.- stroke victims) but one of the three items I listed above are almost always seen at the end.

FWIW, some of the caregivers were not religious but sincerely believe based on their daily experience, there is more than simply liquid morphine dreams or oxycontin influenced experiences. The reason I say that is not all of the patients are on narcotics. There is a commonality that has yet to be explained.

I think that you will see what you expected to see. If you were a Plains Indian you might see The Great Spirit or maybe a token animal guide. There's a lot of literature on the subject of those phenomena. If it is a secular piece, it will give clinical, biological explanations. If it is a religious piece, it will give a spiritual perspective. Again, I think your experience is what you expect it will be like, particularly from your sub-conscious.

I hope you and your family will find grace, peace and comfort during this difficult time.

ambush80 said:

I think that you will see what you expected to see. If you were a Plains Indian you might see The Great Spirit or maybe a token animal guide. There's a lot of literature on the subject of those phenomena. If it is a secular piece, it will give clinical, biological explanations. If it is a religious piece, it will give a spiritual perspective. Again, I think your experience is what you expect it will be like, particularly from your sub-conscious.

I hope you and your family will find grace, peace and comfort during this difficult time.

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What he said

ambush80 said:

I think that you will see what you expected to see. If you were a Plains Indian you might see The Great Spirit or maybe a token animal guide. There's a lot of literature on the subject of those phenomena. If it is a secular piece, it will give clinical, biological explanations. If it is a religious piece, it will give a spiritual perspective. Again, I think your experience is what you expect it will be like, particularly from your sub-conscious.

I hope you and your family will find grace, peace and comfort during this difficult time.

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I am not talking about reading a book. I am talking about sitting across the table from caregivers and hearing what they have seen from a terminal patient. Caregivers that are both religious and ones that are not.

What do you think your experience will be?

I will tell you what caregivers said about atheists. One raised his hands up in the air. He described angelic beings. Others saw deceased loved ones and angelic beings. Kind of odd if they don't believe in the after life. Kind of flies in the face of your logic.

dawg2 said:

Kind of odd if they don't believe in the after life.

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Indeed! Even just as profound is eternity's door opening up when death knocks, and a lost sinner knows his fate...

.... Voltaire cried out to Jesus, breathing his last. Here's his life (and death):

Volatire, the noted French [atheist] and one of the most fertile and talented writers of his time, used his pen to retard and demolish Christianity.
Of Christ, Voltaire said: "Curse the wretch!" He once boasted, "In twenty years Christianity will be no more. My single hand shall destroy the edifice it took twelve apostles to rear."
Shortly after his death the very house in which he printed his foul literature became the depot of the Geneva Bible Society (God has an amazing sense of humor ).

The nurse who attended Voltaire said: "For all the wealth in Europe I would not see another infidel die."
The physician, Trochim, waiting up with Voltaire at his death said that he cried out most desperately:
"I am abandoned by God and man! I will give you half of what I am worth if you will give me six months' life. Then I shall go to (hades), and you will go with me.
O Christ! O Jesus Christ!"

dawg,my sister had what was her third open heart operation.She went straight to life support and was in and out of it for 30 days till she died.I have a copy of her writings where she was on life support and had seen our mother and farther,grandparents too.She wrote and described them as angles flying around her bed.Her writings are hardly readable as she was on life support at the time and could not see what she was writing.

I have a friend who is a born again Christian.He believes very strongly that Christians will transcend in literally the blink of an eye.We never really die only our body that holds our spirit dies.He also believes there are three levels of Heaven too.

Please express to your Mrs.my deep thoughts,prayers and concern for her feelings is such trying times.