A question for believers

[ambush80]

So someone did a drive by and dropped this gem in another thread:



So at 2:16 he says:

"If I could fit the infinite God in my 3lb. brain He would not be worth worshiping."

Yet there he is, telling a whole audience with his 3lb. brain what God is like. And the audience cheers and claps in elation at his wit and wisdom. But if he believed what he said about God being too hard to comprehend, then he would greet the audience and say "Good evening Ladies and Gentlemen. I'm about to say some things but I don't know what I'm talking about."

So how do you know if you're understanding anything that God says correctly? How do you know that you comprehend what His REAL intentions are. He says he loves us but then kills most of us in a flood. (Sounds like what wife abusers say). He says He wishes all would go to Heaven but then He makes some of us Vessels of Wrath. How do you know that when He says "Turn the other cheek" that He doesn't really want you to be pacifists like the Amish?

So what is it? Is He beyond comprehension or can you comprehend the will of God?

 

[bullethead]

So someone did a drive by and dropped this gem in another thread:



So at 2:16 he says:

"If I could fit the infinite God in my 3lb. brain He would not be worth worshiping."

Yet there he is, telling a whole audience with his 3lb. brain what God is like. And the audience cheers and claps in elation at his wit and wisdom. But if he believed what he said about God being too hard to comprehend, then he would greet the audience and say "Good evening Ladies and Gentlemen. I'm about to say some things but I don't know what I'm talking about."

So how do you know if you're understanding anything that God says correctly? How do you know that you comprehend what His REAL intentions are. He says he loves us but then kills most of us in a flood. (Sounds like what wife abusers say). He says He wishes all would go to Heaven but then He makes some of us Vessels of Wrath. How do you know that when He says "Turn the other cheek" that He doesn't really want you to be pacifists like the Amish?

So what is it? Is He beyond comprehension or can you comprehend the will of God?

My 3lb brain tells me that god doesnt want the easy ones. No fun spending eternity with a bunch of yes men and kiss-ups.

 

[WaltL1]

My 3lb brain tells me that god doesnt want the easy ones. No fun spending eternity with a bunch of yes men and kiss-ups.

Its possible "they" are right that there is a God.
And its possible that "we" are right about Christianity/the Bible being entirely man made and man inspired.
If God were to have a logical mind it seems like we might get the nod for not falling for that man made carp

 

[bullethead]

Its possible "they" are right that there is a God.
And its possible that "we" are right about Christianity/the Bible being entirely man made and man inspired.
If God were to have a logical mind it seems like we might get the nod for not falling for that man made carp

It is possible.
And, as we have been informed, nobody can prove it wrong so it MUST be true.

 

[Israel]

By ecstatic utterance I found my lot put in with the Christ of God.
The whole kit and kaboodle.
That's my testimony. I think I've probably shared it.
You might understand, as I do, the problem with recollection. With memory. It's so simple, but also, oh! so subtle.

Suffice to say it is in the matter of superimposition. Any remembrance is always done from any particular place, at any particular moment. The "what was" is always viewed in the what is at that present, and that particular moment. The amount of coloring from the present moment may be rarely, or if ever, discerned. But once seen, it must be admitted...allowed to be acknowledged. Who knows the tendrils found in the reaching back...and their effects upon of the "then"...by the now?

I tend to think that among men, we mostly think we rightly (and sort of hermetically) contain and view our memories as a static and sterile thing and again, rarely if ever, even consider that our own viewing of them (in some sort of Heisenberg uncertainty) might have some effects. We "know" them as there, put placing them in right position, right relevance to us in our now never can take into account the multitude of things we simply do not remember. We may like to think of ourselves in terms as editors, calling up various scenes in our footage, but we have forgotten all the previous cuts that have long since been left to litter the floor. We can't simply go back on this piece of celluloid to recover the "all" at any particular and present moment...pieces are obviously missing already. We may like to think we can have, and present, the whole of the movie to one another...but really?

And, how often do we say to one another..."wait...how did you get...from there to...there?" Did you forget a part? Misremember a part? Ignore whole lengths that must come between?

In the following, may you trust I have not sought out in any machine other than my own mind for recollection. Re collection.
I cannot ever say "I sought to pay attention", for that is folly to me. I am simply at the whim of another writer, what gets written for hi lite is simply not in my hands. Nevertheless, I have recollections. And to say after these few years we have spent together you have made some of "your own" now part of my collection simply attests to our being in this mixing bowl for a time. That's all. To whatever degree, our ingredients have touched.

So, to the three of you, above. (and I take this liberty as a granted thing) And because of liberty you are all as likewise as free to revoke me, rebut me, rebuke me, and of course, challenge my recollections.

But I will speak of signal things, things of "you" all now highlighted in me. I didn't make them so, nor were any (to my own knowledge) of you pressed by any man to share them. But, you have. Tell me if my recollection is at fault.

To one: Your mother in laws last words you heard were "I hate you!" (exclamation point, my own) What was then described as following was gruesome to sight. But yes, I remember what was said of it.

To another: "I told a fellow at college he was then going to he11 for not believing the truth I told him of the gospel" (more or less?) With a now present squirming with a shame of such presumption I saw in myself as to (I imagine) even now make me quite nauseated. (and, since you introduced me to Jordan Peterson, it would be interesting to consider his understanding of what could be called the "disgust principle" as proposed in one of his vids and its subsequent outworking that could lead a man to say something like "If the price of health is being like a christian I would rather be sick". (Again, I didn't go the machine "outside" for a quote, just a quick shot at what got stored on my very personal hard drive) And yes, to be honest, I do imagine you as a very orderly man, a man whose garage I might envy in contrast to my own. Someone who knows exactly where his 24 inch level is to be found.


To another (in summary): We were manifestly presented as unfit to serve by our appearance, damaging (so to speak) to "the cause" (in this case the damage "to the cause" was implied by reduced offerings) From that time I had serious doubts...cause something was surely smelling fishy. (Add to this the incurred "penance" of prayer by rote, and yes...I'm there with you...something is indeed smelly) Turning the privilege of prayer to an exacting from the soul for a judged misdeed (that wasn't even a misdeed, but a revelation) stinks. (whether there was presumption in the stating of it is another matter altogether)

I really don't know if I have been "paying attention"...truly...but I believe each has been mentioned in signal cause. Surely not "only" cause (as I would imagine there to be addenda)...for one has already said that even in his prayers in a situation, he had already been informed of "doubts" about the faith.

You may think I am trying to hold "somebody to something" and in one sense you would be wrong, but in another, quite correct. A view that could say "these are presented to be used 'against us' after some manner".

But wrong inferences easily lead to wrong conclusions...and yet each testimony speaks plainly to me of the Christ. And the conclusion of all these matters, or none of these matters...is, if nothing else...at least not...yet.

 

[bullethead]

By ecstatic utterance I found my lot put in with the Christ of God.
The whole kit and kaboodle.
That's my testimony. I think I've probably shared it.
You might understand, as I do, the problem with recollection. With memory. It's so simple, but also, oh! so subtle.

Suffice to say it is in the matter of superimposition. Any remembrance is always done from any particular place, at any particular moment. The "what was" is always viewed in the what is at that present, and that particular moment. The amount of coloring from the present moment may be rarely, or if ever, discerned. But once seen, it must be admitted...allowed to be acknowledged. Who knows the tendrils found in the reaching back...and their effects upon of the "then"...by the now?

I tend to think that among men, we mostly think we rightly (and sort of hermetically) contain and view our memories as a static and sterile thing and again, rarely if ever, even consider that our own viewing of them (in some sort of Heisenberg uncertainty) might have some effects. We "know" them as there, put placing them in right position, right relevance to us in our now never can take into account the multitude of things we simply do not remember. We may like to think of ourselves in terms as editors, calling up various scenes in our footage, but we have forgotten all the previous cuts that have long since been left to litter the floor. We can't simply go back on this piece of celluloid to recover the "all" at any particular and present moment...pieces are obviously missing already. We may like to think we can have, and present, the whole of the movie to one another...but really?

And, how often do we say to one another..."wait...how did you get...from there to...there?" Did you forget a part? Misremember a part? Ignore whole lengths that must come between?

In the following, may you trust I have not sought out in any machine other than my own mind for recollection. Re collection.
I cannot ever say "I sought to pay attention", for that is folly to me. I am simply at the whim of another writer, what gets written for hi lite is simply not in my hands. Nevertheless, I have recollections. And to say after these few years we have spent together you have made some of "your own" now part of my collection simply attests to our being in this mixing bowl for a time. That's all. To whatever degree, our ingredients have touched.

So, to the three of you, above. (and I take this liberty as a granted thing) And because of liberty you are all as likewise as free to revoke me, rebut me, rebuke me, and of course, challenge my recollections.

But I will speak of signal things, things of "you" all now highlighted in me. I didn't make them so, nor were any (to my own knowledge) of you pressed by any man to share them. But, you have. Tell me if my recollection is at fault.

To one: Your mother in laws last words you heard were "I hate you!" (exclamation point, my own) What was then described as following was gruesome to sight. But yes, I remember what was said of it.

To another: "I told a fellow at college he was then going to he11 for not believing the truth I told him of the gospel" (more or less?) With a now present squirming with a shame of such presumption I saw in myself as to (I imagine) even now make me quite nauseated. (and, since you introduced me to Jordan Peterson, it would be interesting to consider his understanding of what could be called the "disgust principle" as proposed in one of his vids and its subsequent outworking that could lead a man to say something like "If the price of health is being like a christian I would rather be sick". (Again, I didn't go the machine "outside" for a quote, just a quick shot at what got stored on my very personal hard drive) And yes, to be honest, I do imagine you as a very orderly man, a man whose garage I might envy in contrast to my own. Someone who knows exactly where his 24 inch level is to be found.


To another (in summary): We were manifestly presented as unfit to serve by our appearance, damaging (so to speak) to "the cause" (in this case the damage "to the cause" was implied by reduced offerings) From that time I had serious doubts...cause something was surely smelling fishy. (Add to this the incurred "penance" of prayer by rote, and yes...I'm there with you...something is indeed smelly) Turning the privilege of prayer to an exacting from the soul for a judged misdeed (that wasn't even a misdeed, but a revelation) stinks. (whether there was presumption in the stating of it is another matter altogether)

I really don't know if I have been "paying attention"...truly...but I believe each has been mentioned in signal cause. Surely not "only" cause (as I would imagine there to be addenda)...for one has already said that even in his prayers in a situation, he had already been informed of "doubts" about the faith.

You may think I am trying to hold "somebody to something" and in one sense you would be wrong, but in another, quite correct. A view that could say "these are presented to be used 'against us' after some manner".

But wrong inferences easily lead to wrong conclusions...and yet each testimony speaks plainly to me of the Christ. And the conclusion of all these matters, or none of these matters...is, if nothing else...at least not...yet.

I know, yet I dont know.
It matters but it doesnt matter.
I don't remember but here is what I remember.
You could be wrong but you may be right.
Wrong inferences easily lead to wrong conclusions, let me tell you about my inferred conclusion.
These matters, or none of these matters.
I Didn't believe now Im all in kit and kaboodle.

I guess when the bible is the example one chooses to live by, contradictions cannot be avoided.

 

[atlashunter]

I know, yet I dont know.
It matters but it doesnt matter.
I don't remember but here is what I remember.
You could be wrong but you may be right.
Wrong inferences easily lead to wrong conclusions, let me tell you about my inferred conclusion.
These matters, or none of these matters.
I Didn't believe now Im all in kit and kaboodle.

I guess when the bible is the example one chooses to live by, contradictions cannot be avoided.

 

[bullethead]

Lol. Perfect

 

[Spotlite]

I guess when the bible is the example one chooses to live by, contradictions cannot be avoided.

The disconnect here is your assumption.......you can't possibly understand anything that you don't believe exist, and you can't possibly agree with anything that you spend your life discrediting.

The Bible is only one aspect. People also experience things both good and bad that the Bible speaks of.

When they give their "testimony", science, doctors and non believers all come to the same conclusion "we don't know.........we don't yet fully understand how the body heals itself " etc. It's just their nice way to say they can't really explain it away, they just know it can't be what we claim it to be.

So we must have hard physical evidence of why it happens, yet you can take the stance of " We don't really know"?

 

[Israel]

I know, yet I dont know.
It matters but it doesnt matter.
I don't remember but here is what I remember.
You could be wrong but you may be right.
Wrong inferences easily lead to wrong conclusions, let me tell you about my inferred conclusion.
These matters, or none of these matters.
I Didn't believe now Im all in kit and kaboodle.

I guess when the bible is the example one chooses to live by, contradictions cannot be avoided.

What you see as contradictions, paradoxes (and I often find myself observing, no less) I accept as a harmony, now. I don't have any expectation anyone else could live here as I don't even understand the how of I do. But I do believe in the one who has told me I will live where I never thought possible.

But can you admit what is obvious on the face of your last line? Unless I misread what you say, and it really is said as an endorsement..."for the Bible"?

You expect more...(dare I say??) believe for more than contradictions? Me also.

 

[660griz]

I guess when the bible is the example one chooses to live by, contradictions cannot be avoided.

Parts of the Bible. Only the good parts.

 

[bullethead]

The disconnect here is your assumption.......you can't possibly understand anything that you don't believe exist, and you can't possibly agree with anything that you spend your life discrediting.

The Bible is only one aspect. People also experience things both good and bad that the Bible speaks of.

When they give their "testimony", science, doctors and non believers all come to the same conclusion "we don't know.........we don't yet fully understand how the body heals itself " etc. It's just their nice way to say they can't really explain it away, they just know it can't be what we claim it to be.

So we must have hard physical evidence of why it happens, yet you can take the stance of " We don't really know"?

Now see, how can you possibly make any certain claims about me when you yourself did not take the time to research me? Within these forums I have repeatedly told of my past. You make incorrect assumptions without researching the available truth, and then you expect to be taken serious about the things that you cannot possibly ever know.

Pray to your god that he regrows amputated limbs.
I will watch the news for the physical evidence.

 

[bullethead]

What you see as contradictions, paradoxes (and I often find myself observing, no less) I accept as a harmony, now. I don't have any expectation anyone else could live here as I don't even understand the how of I do. But I do believe in the one who has told me I will live where I never thought possible.

But can you admit what is obvious on the face of your last line? Unless I misread what you say, and it really is said as an endorsement..."for the Bible"?

You expect more...(dare I say??) believe for more than contradictions? Me also.

I am blind yet I see.
You are told by one who doesn't exist.
You misread my posts yet roll on as if understood.
I do not expect more because the contradictions tell me what it is.

 

[Spotlite]

Now see, how can you possibly make any certain claims about me when you yourself did not take the time to research me?.

Agreed. In all aspects. And that works both ways.

 

[atlashunter]

Agreed. In all aspects. And that works both ways.

That's a problem for believers considering the average atheist knows the bible better than the average christian. Most atheists are former christians, not because they haven't researched the bible but because they have. Once again you have the cart before the horse.

 

[660griz]

That's a problem for believers considering the average atheist knows the bible better than the average christian.

https://redriverfreethinkers.areavoices.com/2010/09/28/who-knows-the-bible-best-surprise/

 

[Spotlite]

That's a problem for believers considering the average atheist knows the bible better than the average christian. Most atheists are former christians, not because they haven't researched the bible but because they have. Once again you have the cart before the horse.

And again, opinion based.

 

[bullethead]

Agreed. In all aspects. And that works both ways.

It does work both ways sometimes but not in this case.
I have 20 years experience with christianity and a lifetime concerning the bible.

 

[bullethead]

And again, opinion based.

It is the opinion of the people who have done the research. They base their opinion off of the facts from the studies.

 

[JB0704]

I think if you believe in God you have to assume he is incomprehensible. For instance, we believe he created life. We recognize science, and how life works, but how amazing a being must be that made it all happen? The "will of God," on the other hand, is a different matter. We think we have a blueprint as it relates to us, not him.