Jordan Peterson

[1gr8bldr]

I'm surprised he was not quicker on the draw with this. Most will give a quick answer. However, for me...... I don't think it matters if Jesus were raised from the dead and walked and talked before taking his place in heaven. That would simply just be proof to those who saw him. Whether you believe he is dead in the grave, no more or alive in the place we call heaven, this is what matters to me. Bodily resurrection on earth was never the goal of Christianity. I don't know.... he could have had a bodily resurrection on earth and revealed himself to a few, but what was the point? He did not stay, did not reveal himself to many, never intended to stay. "I'm going to a place you can not come". Nothing is accomplished with or without the bodily resurrection of Christ. Alive in the place we call heaven, life after death...... this is the central theme of Christianity afterlife. It very well could be that after the fact... that embellishments of Jesus being raised evolved into the stories we have today. In any story, they always get embellished with time. Why not this as well. Jesus never alluded to proving he was alive. If he had planned on proving it.... then why bother to teach them that he would be raised again? He could have just shown them. However..... he may have shown himself in different ways, just exactly as the NT says. I can't dispute it's accuracy. Only point out that it should not be expected that he prove it by showing himself. Jesus was speaking, teaching through eyes of faith. Not knowing these things, only referring to himself by what he understood of the scriptures of the "one to come". He reasoned "by faith" that he would be raised from the dead. We always here the term "bodily resurrection". We don't require it, can't prove it, so why do we keep putting emphasis on it?

 

[ambush80]

I'm surprised he was not quicker on the draw with this. Most will give a quick answer. However, for me...... I don't think it matters if Jesus were raised from the dead and walked and talked before taking his place in heaven. That would simply just be proof to those who saw him. Whether you believe he is dead in the grave, no more or alive in the place we call heaven, this is what matters to me. Bodily resurrection on earth was never the goal of Christianity. I don't know.... he could have had a bodily resurrection on earth and revealed himself to a few, but what was the point? He did not stay, did not reveal himself to many, never intended to stay. "I'm going to a place you can not come". Nothing is accomplished with or without the bodily resurrection of Christ. Alive in the place we call heaven, life after death...... this is the central theme of Christianity afterlife. It very well could be that after the fact... that embellishments of Jesus being raised evolved into the stories we have today. In any story, they always get embellished with time. Why not this as well. Jesus never alluded to proving he was alive. If he had planned on proving it.... then why bother to teach them that he would be raised again? He could have just shown them. However..... he may have shown himself in different ways, just exactly as the NT says. I can't dispute it's accuracy. Only point out that it should not be expected that he prove it by showing himself. Jesus was speaking, teaching through eyes of faith. Not knowing these things, only referring to himself by what he understood of the scriptures of the "one to come". He reasoned "by faith" that he would be raised from the dead. We always here the term "bodily resurrection". We don't require it, can't prove it, so why do we keep putting emphasis on it?

That's what I'm asking. It seems even Jordan Peterson has a hard time letting go of the concept of a literal resurrection. Of all the miracle claims, this seems like that last one that progressive Christians are willing to call metaphorical. I wonder if it has something to do with the doubling down effect that has been mentioned before around here, where the most extreme of the miracle claims is the one most exalted as a way of demonstrating one's zealotry.

What do you think?

 

[1gr8bldr]

That's what I'm asking. It seems even Jordan Peterson has a hard time letting go of the concept of a literal resurrection. Of all the miracle claims, this seems like that last one that progressive Christians are willing to call metaphorical. I wonder if it has something to do with the doubling down effect that has been mentioned before around here, where the most extreme of the miracle claims is the one most exalted as a way of demonstrating one's zealotry.

What do you think?

They hold tightly to it because without it, Matthew, Luke and John have no credibility any longer for stating that he did. Thus the book is no longer "the word of God" . It starts to break down fast if you can't trust these writings as truth. They will never call this metaphorical.... and if one did, he would then be on the chopping block..... because the context of the writings is anything but metaphorical. Slippery slope picking and choosing what to believe as I do

 

[Day trip]

We have been indoctrinated to believe and not question. We don’t even know what faith is, what believing really is. So we use our dualistic minds and say, “It is all literally true or none of its true.”
That mindset inhibits growth. We spend all our time pretending and forcing ourselves to think we believe something because someone else told us to. When do we hold ourselves accountable?

Human nature hasn’t changed. When God confronted Adam in the garden, what was his response? “The woman that you put here, she gave me the fruit to eat.” You see, it’s not Adams fault, it’s God’s fault for giving him the woman, it’s the woman’s fault for giving him the fruit but poor Adam, in his mind is just s victim.
So the woman is questioned. Her reply, “the snake gave me the fruit to eat”. She’s not to blame either!

Then our churches train us to think faith is blind and not to question which is complete rubbish. As Paul said, “”Question everything, retain what is good, refrain from every kind of evil.”

When we do this we tread lightly, testing scripture in our lives. As we find ourselves in difficult situations and we stick to the words of Christ, things work out. Always! Maybe not like you wanted but always better than you could imagine. As you fail to obey the teachings, things get real bad in a hurry. At this point we can blame others; “he’s just s jerk”, make excuses; “but I was tired”. Then we never grow.

But if we hold ourselves accountable and obey the words of Christ, we become more confident in each encounter. We develop REAL faith. Knowing as we move forward, God is reliable.


All those crazy stories in the Bible, if seen from the proper perspective are amazing tools that lead to true faith. We just need the guts to say, “sorry, I don’t believe that literally”. Saying this humbly and honestly, leaving our minds open for further inspiration then if it yours to understsnd, God will enlighten you.

The Bible is really an amazing and beautiful thing if it was presented for what it actually is instead of fought over about what it is not. Don’t be afraid to question.

 

[1gr8bldr]

We have been indoctrinated to believe and not question. We don’t even know what faith is, what believing really is. So we use our dualistic minds and say, “It is all literally true or none of its true.”
That mindset inhibits growth. We spend all our time pretending and forcing ourselves to think we believe something because someone else told us to. When do we hold ourselves accountable?

Human nature hasn’t changed. When God confronted Adam in the garden, what was his response? “The woman that you put here, she gave me the fruit to eat.” You see, it’s not Adams fault, it’s God’s fault for giving him the woman, it’s the woman’s fault for giving him the fruit but poor Adam, in his mind is just s victim.
So the woman is questioned. Her reply, “the snake gave me the fruit to eat”. She’s not to blame either!

Then our churches train us to think faith is blind and not to question which is complete rubbish. As Paul said, “”Question everything, retain what is good, refrain from every kind of evil.”

When we do this we tread lightly, testing scripture in our lives. As we find ourselves in difficult situations and we stick to the words of Christ, things work out. Always! Maybe not like you wanted but always better than you could imagine. As you fail to obey the teachings, things get real bad in a hurry. At this point we can blame others; “he’s just s jerk”, make excuses; “but I was tired”. Then we never grow.

But if we hold ourselves accountable and obey the words of Christ, we become more confident in each encounter. We develop REAL faith. Knowing as we move forward, God is reliable.


All those crazy stories in the Bible, if seen from the proper perspective are amazing tools that lead to true faith. We just need the guts to say, “sorry, I don’t believe that literally”. Saying this humbly and honestly, leaving our minds open for further inspiration then if it yours to understsnd, God will enlighten you.

The Bible is really an amazing and beautiful thing if it was presented for what it actually is instead of fought over about what it is not. Don’t be afraid to question.

LOL, I was not aware someone else was on the same slope

 

[ambush80]

We have been indoctrinated to believe and not question. We don’t even know what faith is, what believing really is. So we use our dualistic minds and say, “It is all literally true or none of its true.”
That mindset inhibits growth. We spend all our time pretending and forcing ourselves to think we believe something because someone else told us to. When do we hold ourselves accountable?

Human nature hasn’t changed. When God confronted Adam in the garden, what was his response? “The woman that you put here, she gave me the fruit to eat.” You see, it’s not Adams fault, it’s God’s fault for giving him the woman, it’s the woman’s fault for giving him the fruit but poor Adam, in his mind is just s victim.
So the woman is questioned. Her reply, “the snake gave me the fruit to eat”. She’s not to blame either!

Then our churches train us to think faith is blind and not to question which is complete rubbish. As Paul said, “”Question everything, retain what is good, refrain from every kind of evil.”

When we do this we tread lightly, testing scripture in our lives. As we find ourselves in difficult situations and we stick to the words of Christ, things work out. Always! Maybe not like you wanted but always better than you could imagine. As you fail to obey the teachings, things get real bad in a hurry. At this point we can blame others; “he’s just s jerk”, make excuses; “but I was tired”. Then we never grow.

But if we hold ourselves accountable and obey the words of Christ, we become more confident in each encounter. We develop REAL faith. Knowing as we move forward, God is reliable.


All those crazy stories in the Bible, if seen from the proper perspective are amazing tools that lead to true faith. We just need the guts to say, “sorry, I don’t believe that literally”. Saying this humbly and honestly, leaving our minds open for further inspiration then if it yours to understsnd, God will enlighten you.

The Bible is really an amazing and beautiful thing if it was presented for what it actually is instead of fought over about what it is not. Don’t be afraid to question.

Do you get guidance from any other faith traditions? Why did you settle on the example of Jesus?

LOL, I was not aware someone else was on the same slope

You in Da Souf, Boi. Cain't be talkin' like dat roun' heah.

 

[1gr8bldr]

We have been indoctrinated to believe and not question. We don’t even know what faith is, what believing really is. So we use our dualistic minds and say, “It is all literally true or none of its true.”
That mindset inhibits growth. We spend all our time pretending and forcing ourselves to think we believe something because someone else told us to. When do we hold ourselves accountable?

Human nature hasn’t changed. When God confronted Adam in the garden, what was his response? “The woman that you put here, she gave me the fruit to eat.” You see, it’s not Adams fault, it’s God’s fault for giving him the woman, it’s the woman’s fault for giving him the fruit but poor Adam, in his mind is just s victim.
So the woman is questioned. Her reply, “the snake gave me the fruit to eat”. She’s not to blame either!

Then our churches train us to think faith is blind and not to question which is complete rubbish. As Paul said, “”Question everything, retain what is good, refrain from every kind of evil.”

When we do this we tread lightly, testing scripture in our lives. As we find ourselves in difficult situations and we stick to the words of Christ, things work out. Always! Maybe not like you wanted but always better than you could imagine. As you fail to obey the teachings, things get real bad in a hurry. At this point we can blame others; “he’s just s jerk”, make excuses; “but I was tired”. Then we never grow.

But if we hold ourselves accountable and obey the words of Christ, we become more confident in each encounter. We develop REAL faith. Knowing as we move forward, God is reliable.


All those crazy stories in the Bible, if seen from the proper perspective are amazing tools that lead to true faith. We just need the guts to say, “sorry, I don’t believe that literally”. Saying this humbly and honestly, leaving our minds open for further inspiration then if it yours to understsnd, God will enlighten you.

The Bible is really an amazing and beautiful thing if it was presented for what it actually is instead of fought over about what it is not. Don’t be afraid to question.

Hey Day trip, I wonder.... I did not realize that anyone else here thought this way. Curious...... Not that I would debate anything, but I would like to know where you have arrived in your beliefs.... a simple version, if possible. What belief system most resembles yours? I hope Ambush will not mind a slight derail

 

[Day trip]

Do you get guidance from any other faith traditions? Why did you settle on the example of Jesus?

Absolutely, I put up a brief history in the other thread, you can catch it there.

It depends on what you mean by Jesus.�

There is one truth. If I cut my hand in Georgia, I will bleed the same as if I cut my hand in Kenya. There is one Force, we call it God. Every attempt at religion, like it or not is trying to know this Force. Many get upset when they hear this statement. “The god of (insert religion here) isn’t my god”. Yeah he is, they just honor him differently. Some do it better than others (usually based on our preferences and understanding). Because of my familiarity with Christianity, that is my main inspiration. .

You see, Jesus is the embodiment of the Word, the plan for all of creation which was there in the beginning,, so we call him The Son of God. The Word existed from the beginning and is still working today. It’s really not always as glamorous as religion makes it out to be. Gravity, inertia, chemical reactions, etc are all part of the Word, the part of the Word governing the physical world. Sometimes it’s quite boring. But at the moment of creation, all matter and energy came forth from what we call Spirit. Now the physical world has rules that govern its nature, all part of the plan. But there is something else. The Spirit. The Spirit is actually pretty simple, you can fight it or you can flow with it. We have five senses to detect the physical world, but we have another sense that detects the Spiritual laws. This sense is hard to descibe, hard to engage. It is an intuition more than anything else. A feeling or a knowing. With all of our physical senses so powerful and active, it is like trying to hear a single triangle being chimed in roomful of drums, horns and clarinets. By reading scripture, we devolop an intuition that allows us to recognize the Spirit, to hear it through all the distractions. Even so, I required a lot of peace to learn to hear it. Like the meditating monks from other religions.

I recognized it the first time when I worked on an old boat motor. I didn’t know what I was doing, and I got lost in the moment. Somewhere in there, I began to only see what was real with no preferences and no preconceived notions and I recognized a peace that I have never experienced before while at the same time it was the most familiar thing I’ve ever known. I saw truth, obeyed truth and fixed a motor with no experience whatsoever. Fixing a boat motor helped lead me to God!

You see, the Spirit without matter is mere theory, potential energy so to speak. Matter without Spirit is cold and dead. The purpose of religion (Latin RE-again, LIGIO- connect) is to reconnect or reconcile spirit and matter. The Spirit is animated by matter and matter is sanctified by the Spirit. If you get that then you’re done.

As I contemplated this experience, I begin to quiet my mind (the monkey mind from Buddhism) and get lost in other moments. Moments alone and moments of conflict with other people. Each experience was as successful as to the degree I submitted to the truth, acted out of love and obeyed those teaching of Jesus from the sermon on the mount. Over time, I realized what Jesus meant by, “The kingdom of heaven is at hand”.

We ebb and flow. I cannot stay there. I still get defensive and angry and down right mean from time to time but that is drawing me in too. It tells me that I cannot do it myself, as so many Christians say. I used to hate that saying until I realized it means, the flesh, your physical senses and willpower cannot do it. It is learning to submit to truth, to God with utter vulnerability.

It’s like the transfiguration, where Jesus revealed himself to Peter, John and James. He was described as being whiter than anything ever. That’s exactly how words would describe the peace and oneness that I feel in these times. It’s so wonderful we want to stay there, like Peter who wished to build three temples on the mountain. But Jesus just basically said, quit being silly, let’s go back down and get to work.

All the other religions describe these ideas but either my background in Christianity or because of the perfection of it (done correctly) I choose to follow Jesus.

It seems too simple, doesn’t it. Who would buy this for religious experience? But as you study the words of Christ, other religious leaders too, you come to see that this is what it all points to, Developing a oneness with all of creation in loving truth.


I would have to write a library to be less vague but I hope this helps some.

 

[Day trip]

Hey Day trip, I wonder.... I did not realize that anyone else here thought this way. Curious...... Not that I would debate anything, but I would like to know where you have arrived in your beliefs.... a simple version, if possible. What belief system most resembles yours?

I don’t know, I would hope Jesus! Very happy to debate or discuss. If it doesn’t hold water then I need to rethink something.

 

[1gr8bldr]

I don’t know, I would hope Jesus! Very happy to debate or discuss. If it doesn’t hold water then I need to rethink something.

Mormon, JW, trinitarian, messianic Jew, Unitarian, etc..... this was what I was referring to

 

[Day trip]

Mormon, JW, trinitarian, messianic Jew, Unitarian, etc..... this was what I was referring to

Oh sorry, someone asked a similar question in the “atheist dad going to heaven” thread so I put my history there if you dont mind looking so I don’t repeat.

 

[ambush80]

Do you get guidance from any other faith traditions? Why did you settle on the example of Jesus?

Absolutely, I put up a brief history in the other thread, you can catch it there.

It depends on what you mean by Jesus.�

There is one truth. If I cut my hand in Georgia, I will bleed the same as if I cut my hand in Kenya. There is one Force, we call it God. Every attempt at religion, like it or not is trying to know this Force. Many get upset when they hear this statement. “The god of (insert religion here) isn’t my god”. Yeah he is, they just honor him differently. Some do it better than others (usually based on our preferences and understanding). Because of my familiarity with Christianity, that is my main inspiration. .

You see, Jesus is the embodiment of the Word, the plan for all of creation which was there in the beginning,, so we call him The Son of God. The Word existed from the beginning and is still working today. It’s really not always as glamorous as religion makes it out to be. Gravity, inertia, chemical reactions, etc are all part of the Word, the part of the Word governing the physical world. Sometimes it’s quite boring. But at the moment of creation, all matter and energy came forth from what we call Spirit. Now the physical world has rules that govern its nature, all part of the plan. But there is something else. The Spirit. The Spirit is actually pretty simple, you can fight it or you can flow with it. We have five senses to detect the physical world, but we have another sense that detects the Spiritual laws. This sense is hard to descibe, hard to engage. It is an intuition more than anything else. A feeling or a knowing. With all of our physical senses so powerful and active, it is like trying to hear a single triangle being chimed in roomful of drums, horns and clarinets. By reading scripture, we devolop an intuition that allows us to recognize the Spirit, to hear it through all the distractions. Even so, I required a lot of peace to learn to hear it. Like the meditating monks from other religions.

I recognized it the first time when I worked on an old boat motor. I didn’t know what I was doing, and I got lost in the moment. Somewhere in there, I began to only see what was real with no preferences and no preconceived notions and I recognized a peace that I have never experienced before while at the same time it was the most familiar thing I’ve ever known. I saw truth, obeyed truth and fixed a motor with no experience whatsoever. Fixing a boat motor helped lead me to God!

You see, the Spirit without matter is mere theory, potential energy so to speak. Matter without Spirit is cold and dead. The purpose of religion (Latin RE-again, LIGIO- connect) is to reconnect or reconcile spirit and matter. The Spirit is animated by matter and matter is sanctified by the Spirit. If you get that then you’re done.

As I contemplated this experience, I begin to quiet my mind (the monkey mind from Buddhism) and get lost in other moments. Moments alone and moments of conflict with other people. Each experience was as successful as to the degree I submitted to the truth, acted out of love and obeyed those teaching of Jesus from the sermon on the mount. Over time, I realized what Jesus meant by, “The kingdom of heaven is at hand”.

We ebb and flow. I cannot stay there. I still get defensive and angry and down right mean from time to time but that is drawing me in too. It tells me that I cannot do it myself, as so many Christians say. I used to hate that saying until I realized it means, the flesh, your physical senses and willpower cannot do it. It is learning to submit to truth, to God with utter vulnerability.

It’s like the transfiguration, where Jesus revealed himself to Peter, John and James. He was described as being whiter than anything ever. That’s exactly how words would describe the peace and oneness that I feel in these times. It’s so wonderful we want to stay there, like Peter who wished to build three temples on the mountain. But Jesus just basically said, quit being silly, let’s go back down and get to work.

All the other religions describe these ideas but either my background in Christianity or because of the perfection of it (done correctly) I choose to follow Jesus.

It seems too simple, doesn’t it. Who would buy this for religious experience? But as you study the words of Christ, other religious leaders too, you come to see that this is what it all points to, Developing a oneness with all of creation in loving truth.


I would have to write a library to be less vague but I hope this helps some.

I understood what you wrote very clearly. Thanks for sharing that. Why do you think the spirit is something outside of matter and how would you know?

 

[1gr8bldr]

Oh sorry, someone asked a similar question in the “atheist dad going to heaven” thread so I put my history there if you dont mind looking so I don’t repeat.

I found it. Catholic. Teaching Catholic as well. So, I assume you believe all the core Catholic doctrines?

 

[Israel]

Paul was very bold...not withdrawing one iota from the square on facing of this matter.
Do I therefore think Paul's boldness is imputed to me by his mention? Do I think "mouthing someone else's words" in some way adds some stature to myself? God knows...and He'll tell if it's needed.

Nevertheless

But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace to me was not in vain. No, I worked harder than all of them—yet not I, but the grace of God that was with me. Whether, then, it was I or they, this is what we preach, and this is what you believed. But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead?

If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is worthless, and so is your faith. In that case, we are also exposed as false witnesses about God. For we have testified about God that He raised Christ from the dead, but He did not raise Him if in fact the dead are not raised.

For if the dead are not raised, then not even Christ has been raised. And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished
If our hope in Christ is for this life alone, we are to be pitied more than all men. But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. But each in his own turn: Christ the firstfruits; then at His coming, those who belong to Him.

Do you really imagine you could be the first...or only, to be so faced with making the resurrection a mere proposition for dispute? A thing you can reconcile? Get the order right...you are reconciled by it...not it, by you.

Would you seek to appear reasonable, before whom you consider "reasonable" men? I don't know...but God does. Is your delight in thinking yourself reasonable? Is my delight in thinking myself zealous? God knows.

Or has the resurrection actually accomplished that to which it testifies, Jesus alive from the dead to be seen, and known...even as He stated of Himself "I am the resurrection...and the life"

Again if this just be a fool "mouthing" words he's been told, read...and never known in truth...God knows. And again...even as to and specifically to the resurrection...God knows, and He's telling everyone and anyone with a need to know.

But even mouthing speculations...can lead a man to that place where conjecture bandied about for entertainment on a slippery slope ends, and the need to know...is then discovered.

 

[1gr8bldr]

Paul was very bold...not withdrawing one iota from the square on facing of this matter.
Do I therefore think Paul's boldness is imputed to me by his mention? Do I think "mouthing someone else's words" in some way adds some stature to myself? God knows...and He'll tell if it's needed.

Nevertheless

But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace to me was not in vain. No, I worked harder than all of them—yet not I, but the grace of God that was with me. Whether, then, it was I or they, this is what we preach, and this is what you believed. But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead?

If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is worthless, and so is your faith. In that case, we are also exposed as false witnesses about God. For we have testified about God that He raised Christ from the dead, but He did not raise Him if in fact the dead are not raised.

For if the dead are not raised, then not even Christ has been raised. And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished
If our hope in Christ is for this life alone, we are to be pitied more than all men. But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. But each in his own turn: Christ the firstfruits; then at His coming, those who belong to Him.

Do you really imagine you could be the first...or only, to be so faced with making the resurrection a mere proposition for dispute? A thing you can reconcile? Get the order right...you are reconciled by it...not it, by you.

Would you seek to appear reasonable, before whom you consider "reasonable" men? I don't know...but God does. Is your delight in thinking yourself reasonable? Is my delight in thinking myself zealous? God knows.

Or has the resurrection actually accomplished that to which it testifies, Jesus alive from the dead to be seen, and known...even as He stated of Himself "I am the resurrection...and the life"

Again if this just be a fool "mouthing" words he's been told, read...and never known in truth...God knows. And again...even as to and specifically to the resurrection...God knows, and He's telling everyone and anyone with a need to know.

But even mouthing speculations...can lead a man to that place where conjecture bandied about for entertainment on a slippery slope ends, and the need to know...is then discovered.

Do you imply that Jesus had to be raised bodily, on earth, that it was some sort of requirement that would void everything if it were not so?

 

[Israel]

It is, of necessity.
All that He is for us...is of necessity.
But not His.

Think you that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?

 

[Day trip]

I understood what you wrote very clearly. Thanks for sharing that. Why do you think the spirit is something outside of matter and how would you know?

Well I’m not sure the “Spirit”, as I call it, is outside of matter. It more like something else besides matter. You can’t measure it, you can’t quantitate it but unless you are completely distracted, you cannot deny it either. That’s what makes so many people angry about religion, “Just give it to me straight!”

Some of the people I admire the most never answer questions. It drives me nuts! They reply with questions. So I go away mad and stew over it. At my best, I realize that any answer they give would have been met with a “yeah, but...”. I consider their question and it develops into the answer I needed. At my worse, I just claim that they don’t know anything. The first line from Taoteching is “ The way that becomes a way is not the Immortal way.”
That one puzzled me until I realized it means be authentic.
If you are authentic, then you flow with the Spirit.
If you try to make it “the way” for everybody then it just doesn’t work. (Institutional religion today)

So Jesus according to John said, “I am the way and the truth and the life.” The way? But how vague was Jesus on so many subjects? I love the sermon on the mount. It satisfies my ego, which is flesh/matter. More or less rules we can follow. But then there is a vagueness to all of his teaching that allows you to operate authentically and unrestricted. It is vague enough to embrace your authenticity while still being universal!

So, my return question; is the Spirit separate from matter, or do we just think so?

 

[Day trip]

I found it. Catholic. Teaching Catholic as well. So, I assume you believe all the core Catholic doctrines?

Um, no! , but not as subversively as it may seem. I’ve read the Catechism several times. The Catholic Church has a really good program but unfortunately it is sold for less than face value. I am not certain that many of the teachers are not pushing a version of pagan idolatry instead of the true heart of Catholicism. Sorry to have to say it. listening to Catholic radio when I’m driving very often gets me fighting mad. It fails to deny the notion that you can get to heaven. You cannot get to heaven, you can only be there. Right now. So often people call in, the priest gives some rules and everyone is happy. It’s like the vacuum salesman who pours dirt on your carpet then just so happens to have the solution to fix it. Anyway, I’m ranting, but yes, the Catholic Church has a great program if taken at face value.

 

[Day trip]

Paul was very bold...not withdrawing one iota from the square on facing of this matter.
Do I therefore think Paul's boldness is imputed to me by his mention? Do I think "mouthing someone else's words" in some way adds some stature to myself? God knows...and He'll tell if it's needed.

Nevertheless

But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace to me was not in vain. No, I worked harder than all of them—yet not I, but the grace of God that was with me. Whether, then, it was I or they, this is what we preach, and this is what you believed. But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead?

If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is worthless, and so is your faith. In that case, we are also exposed as false witnesses about God. For we have testified about God that He raised Christ from the dead, but He did not raise Him if in fact the dead are not raised.

For if the dead are not raised, then not even Christ has been raised. And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished
If our hope in Christ is for this life alone, we are to be pitied more than all men. But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. But each in his own turn: Christ the firstfruits; then at His coming, those who belong to Him.

Do you really imagine you could be the first...or only, to be so faced with making the resurrection a mere proposition for dispute? A thing you can reconcile? Get the order right...you are reconciled by it...not it, by you.

Would you seek to appear reasonable, before whom you consider "reasonable" men? I don't know...but God does. Is your delight in thinking yourself reasonable? Is my delight in thinking myself zealous? God knows.

Or has the resurrection actually accomplished that to which it testifies, Jesus alive from the dead to be seen, and known...even as He stated of Himself "I am the resurrection...and the life"

Again if this just be a fool "mouthing" words he's been told, read...and never known in truth...God knows. And again...even as to and specifically to the resurrection...God knows, and He's telling everyone and anyone with a need to know.

But even mouthing speculations...can lead a man to that place where conjecture bandied about for entertainment on a slippery slope ends, and the need to know...is then discovered.

A man sets up his own discord in relationship to what he knows. If there be knowing...it is of God..."a man can receive nothing except it be given him from above"

A man cannot even "know" that he knows anything except that be given him...from above. Jesus says a curious thing (well, curious except that Jesus says it, and therefore means it)

These are Your words from a different thread. Are we culpable because we profess what we believe, given to us by God himself?

 

[ambush80]

Well I’m not sure the “Spirit”, as I call it, is outside of matter. It more like something else besides matter. You can’t measure it, you can’t quantitate it but unless you are completely distracted, you cannot deny it either. That’s what makes so many people angry about religion, “Just give it to me straight!”

Some of the people I admire the most never answer questions. It drives me nuts! They reply with questions. So I go away mad and stew over it. At my best, I realize that any answer they give would have been met with a “yeah, but...”. I consider their question and it develops into the answer I needed. At my worse, I just claim that they don’t know anything. The first line from Taoteching is “ The way that becomes a way is not the Immortal way.”
That one puzzled me until I realized it means be authentic.
If you are authentic, then you flow with the Spirit.
If you try to make it “the way” for everybody then it just doesn’t work. (Institutional religion today)

So Jesus according to John said, “I am the way and the truth and the life.” The way? But how vague was Jesus on so many subjects? I love the sermon on the mount. It satisfies my ego, which is flesh/matter. More or less rules we can follow. But then there is a vagueness to all of his teaching that allows you to operate authentically and unrestricted. It is vague enough to embrace your authenticity while still being universal!

So, my return question; is the Spirit separate from matter, or do we just think so?

I don't know. Who thinks that? Your description of being in the spirit sounds like meditation. It sounds like something transcendent that can happen while playing music, working out, sleeping or being on psychedelics. I'm not so sure any of the modern descriptions of that experience are worthwhile. By modern, I mean as oral traditions.

I heard a Rumi quote from Deepak Chopra recently.

"The language of God is silence. Everything else is a poor translation."