red neck richie
Senior Member
Sure. And when they find it to be truthful they believe it.
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Interracial Marriage
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WaltL1
Senior Member
Of course people can come to form their own opinions. They learn new information. They have different experiences. They change their mind about things.
Heres another simple example. Cowboy and indian movies. The vast majority were rooting for the cowboys. Why? It was natural to think the Indians were the bad guys.
Why was it natural to think that?
red neck richie
Senior Member
I always wanted to be the Indian.
Yep, you were indoctrinated to believe the Indians were victims.
red neck richie
Senior Member
Naw I just like shootin bows
Artfuldodger
Senior Member
I think indoctrination does play an important part in a child's development. When a child hears that a certain race of people aren't even human for most of his childhood years it kinda affects how he feels about that race as well.
Add that to how everyone at your church and school feels about that race, your friends, relatives, preacher, teachers, and neighbors and it kinda affects the way you grow up too.
It takes a lot for one to cast all that aside and form an opinion different from that. Some of us do but I'd say most don't. I don't believe there are as many free thinkers as those that stick with their indoctrination.
Add that to how everyone at your church and school feels about that race, your friends, relatives, preacher, teachers, and neighbors and it kinda affects the way you grow up too.
It takes a lot for one to cast all that aside and form an opinion different from that. Some of us do but I'd say most don't. I don't believe there are as many free thinkers as those that stick with their indoctrination.
Artfuldodger
Senior Member
When you are indoctrinated that a certain race stinks because they are of that race. Not because of lack of hygiene, but because of race. That a certain race doesn't have hair but wool. That they are not even human. Not animals but something in-between.
That this race of people live the way they do because of their race, not poverty or their own indoctrination.
If you are told his on a daily basis, how sorry and a waste this race is because of their race. A sub-human group of individuals that should not exist. A race that will never equal the other races because of race and race alone.
You can bet that the children of someone like this will have a hard time becoming a free thinker and overcoming this indoctrination.
Maybe one or two out of four might. Even two would be a plus.
That this race of people live the way they do because of their race, not poverty or their own indoctrination.
If you are told his on a daily basis, how sorry and a waste this race is because of their race. A sub-human group of individuals that should not exist. A race that will never equal the other races because of race and race alone.
You can bet that the children of someone like this will have a hard time becoming a free thinker and overcoming this indoctrination.
Maybe one or two out of four might. Even two would be a plus.
red neck richie
Senior Member
I don't know what the percentages are as far as those that think for themselves vs let others think for them. I'm not saying it dosent happen but I wouldn't think the numbers are very high.
Artfuldodger
Senior Member
The thing is it's children we are talking about concerning things like this. This is how these things get passed on from generation to generation.
It's way deeper than one thinking for himself when he becomes an adult.
This is why many adults feel the way they do about certain things when they are grown. It gets burnt into your brain.
I'm not talking about a Dad that just prefers Fords but a Dad that won't allow his boys to park anything but a Ford in his driveway.
Was reading about a woman whose Dad always made it a point that real men didn't drink out of a straw. When she started dating she would not go out with a guy again if he drunk his drink with a straw.
This is funny to me as I don't use a straw so I joke with my daughter's about it.
But with this lady it's serious but stupid. Yet she can't get that thought or image from her indoctrination out of her head.
Even for me, and I do consider myself a free thinker, it takes a lot for me to get my indoctrination of the Black race out of my head.
I have to go about it like a recovering addiction addict.
Look at our own religious indoctrination. Trinitarian for me but I don't follow that belief any longer. You don't think that was an easy indoctrination to overcome. I really didn't even want to overcome it.
Even years later I still feel Trinitarian. I still feel thoughts of my childhood indoctrination about the Black race creeping back in. Especially when around folks from my childhood who still believe in the way we were indoctrinated.
Folks ain't as free as they want to be from indoctrination. Percentages that can overcome? We'll never know.
WaltL1
Senior Member
Bingo!
Purely Anecdotal.
I never met a black person until I entered high school. Although I surely did, I don't recall having seen a black person until then.
Although I recognize societal probabilities when initially meeting someone, I can not recall having had any thought about a person of any race that was not drawn from my experience with that individual.
My father was very down on the black race. Many would have considered him a racist bigot, although it was not a daily or weekly topic of conversation.
I learned many years after both my father and grandfather had died that, when his children were young, my grandfather had reached out to the only black family in the rural neighborhood where they lived (it was about ten miles to the nearest flush toilet; mid to late 1930's). I grew up in the same community, (there were flush toilets in the new school house that I entered as a five year old).
Although I am aware of a few more details, attributing any causal relationship would be purely speculative.
My conclusion from this anecdote; individual indoctrination, while a real factor, is highly overrated.
I never met a black person until I entered high school. Although I surely did, I don't recall having seen a black person until then.
Although I recognize societal probabilities when initially meeting someone, I can not recall having had any thought about a person of any race that was not drawn from my experience with that individual.
My father was very down on the black race. Many would have considered him a racist bigot, although it was not a daily or weekly topic of conversation.
I learned many years after both my father and grandfather had died that, when his children were young, my grandfather had reached out to the only black family in the rural neighborhood where they lived (it was about ten miles to the nearest flush toilet; mid to late 1930's). I grew up in the same community, (there were flush toilets in the new school house that I entered as a five year old).
Although I am aware of a few more details, attributing any causal relationship would be purely speculative.
My conclusion from this anecdote; individual indoctrination, while a real factor, is highly overrated.
Artfuldodger
Senior Member
I can see why you don't relate your own childhood race relations to a terrible indoctrination experience. You didn't live among a community with many Blacks or even know any.
You didn't heat it on a daily or weekly basis from your peers, parents, teachers, relatives, and preachers on a personal basis.
I guess your Dad didn't say "look over there, that's the incubator" when driving by a predominantly Black government housing project.
Now granted many people feel about a race based on the race's actions, morals, etc. because that race doesn't try to make changes.
Welfare would be a good example. It's based on indoctrination and not race.
But to feel this race lives the way they do because of their race so they can't change is a bit different. That's the way I was indoctrinated. That there were inferior races to my own based just on their race. Not the cultural differences but the race itself.
You see I did hear this on a daily and weekly basis. That this race could not get any better based on race. Not only from my parents but relatives, teacher, friends, and preachers.
I guess one has to live it to understand indoctrination's impact. It would also depend on the severity and frequency of the indoctrination.
Perhaps you could use your religious indoctrination as an example?
It does appear that kids of Elected Christians are prone to be elected themselves.
Perhaps one's political party. Could your indoctrination have been influenced by your parents?
Usually always one's religion and political beliefs are part of their childhood indoctrination. Those two things are usually lived on a daily and weekly basis.
If you are told by your parents that blue eyed people are smarter than brown eyed people, it will eventually affect your outlook on your learning abilities.
If told you can't do something because you are left handed or that it's your Moms's fault you are left handed. That left handedness was a sign of not being taught to be right handed. Then that could effect how hard you even try to accomplish certain tasks. You figure you can't do it because you are left handed, not that it's because you are using a tool designed for a right handed person.
I would have to disagree. I feel indoctrination is highly underrated in it's affects on children and adults.
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Artfuldodger
Senior Member
My Dad never watched sports or racing on TV. So I feel that aspect of my childhood made me grow up to not watch sports and racing on TV.
My Dad and my brothers were active in activities ourselves instead of watching these activities on TV. Dad took us hunting, fishing, camping, water skiing, roller skating, swimming, etc. He also actively participated in whatever we, as kids would do. He didn't just take us skating, he skated as well. He didn't just take us white water rafting, he rafted as well.
So in that respect I've always participated in these same activities with my kids even now that they are grown. I don't just take them to a water park, I go down the slides myself. I did finally give up skimming though. I fell and hurt my wrist pretty bad.
The point being, we are influenced by our parents in a positive and negative way. You have to take the good with the bad. Hopefully the
good aspects outweigh one or two bad ones even if they were really bad.
Hopefully one can overcome these negative aspects of their childhood indoctrination. Live and learn. Hopefully we all learn that our parents were wrong about certain things.
We meet Blacks or Yankees and realize they have basic needs of food, clothing, and shelter. That they aren't that different from White Southerners. That we all have cultural differences. To learn that they act the way they do by their indoctrination, not race or location.
That some people actually like Mopars even.
My Dad and my brothers were active in activities ourselves instead of watching these activities on TV. Dad took us hunting, fishing, camping, water skiing, roller skating, swimming, etc. He also actively participated in whatever we, as kids would do. He didn't just take us skating, he skated as well. He didn't just take us white water rafting, he rafted as well.
So in that respect I've always participated in these same activities with my kids even now that they are grown. I don't just take them to a water park, I go down the slides myself. I did finally give up skimming though. I fell and hurt my wrist pretty bad.
The point being, we are influenced by our parents in a positive and negative way. You have to take the good with the bad. Hopefully the
good aspects outweigh one or two bad ones even if they were really bad.
Hopefully one can overcome these negative aspects of their childhood indoctrination. Live and learn. Hopefully we all learn that our parents were wrong about certain things.
We meet Blacks or Yankees and realize they have basic needs of food, clothing, and shelter. That they aren't that different from White Southerners. That we all have cultural differences. To learn that they act the way they do by their indoctrination, not race or location.
That some people actually like Mopars even.
SemperFiDawg
Political Forum Arbiter of Truth (And Lies Too)
So wanting my daughters to marry someone who is devoted to Christ is your definition of a bigot? Is that REALLLLLLLLY what you are implying?
SemperFiDawg
Political Forum Arbiter of Truth (And Lies Too)
Yip. It's half way in jest,.....maybe, but I constantly stress to them the importance of being self-sufficient and not having to rely on a man.
Love Mopar trucks,,,,
Hillbilly stalker
Senior Member
WOW ! Indoctrination , 23 times in 5 posts, must be word for the day. My head hurts now.
I'd rather have a sister in a cathouse than a dodge in my front yard tho (just kidding ya)
I'd rather have a sister in a cathouse than a dodge in my front yard tho (just kidding ya)
ambush80
Senior Member
New born children are a sponge. They are far less equipped than other animals with basic survival skills. That was an evolutionary trade off for having a brain designed to think. It's a parent's right, privilege, and responsibility to teach them how to survive. For humans, survival means having information and children absorb information readily. Infants get information from visual clues like facial expressions that can tell them that something is "yucky" and to be avoided. You don't like the word "indoctrinated"? Use the word "programmed" instead then.
Read the definition and decide for yourself if it fits the situation.
If your daughters married practicing Muslims and converted to Islam would you respect their choices and their new religion?
If the answer is anything other than an unconditional yes, go back and read the definition again.
And it’s Webster’s definition-not mine.
Nothing but a Dodge,Chevys and Fords are rust buckets,,,,
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