Free Grace vs Lordship Salvation

[Artfuldodger]

While we are on the topic of Grace. We've only talked about Grace as it pertains to our only way to Salvation.
Now I need God's Grace to help me live the way he wants me to. What are some assuring verses that God will grant me Grace to do this?

 

[rjcruiser]

My only confusion is now that we all agree "we are saved by Grace and it was all from God and our works has no play in our Salvation."
Someone will come along and say "well he was never saved or he had a false conversion. He was never of the Elect. You can't have it both ways.
Everyone who professes Jesus as their Savior believe they are saved. Have you ever known anyone who believes in "Election" to believe he isn't "Elected?"
Haven't we all pretty much said we don't need physical proof of salvation because we have Biblical proof from God. John 3:16 and John 10:29 tells us that, correct?
John 10:29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand.

Not everyone who calls "Lord Lord" is saved. We must have discernment. For to call the Lord our Savior and to believe it 100% are two different things.

That is where we come to discernment and like I John tells us, we need to examine ourselves.

That being said, that's why we can believe that "if saved, always saved."

While we are on the topic of Grace. We've only talked about Grace as it pertains to our only way to Salvation.
Now I need God's Grace to help me live the way he wants me to. What are some assuring verses that God will grant me Grace to do this?

Gal 2:20. I've been crucified with Christ...and it's no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me. And the life I live, I live by faith in the one who loved me and delivered himself up for me.

Also, plenty of scripture that tells us to ask for wisdom and God will give it to us. James tells us that.

 

[Artfuldodger]

Not everyone who calls "Lord Lord" is saved. We must have discernment. For to call the Lord our Savior and to believe it 100% are two different things.

That is where we come to discernment and like I John tells us, we need to examine ourselves.

That being said, that's why we can believe that "if saved, always saved."



Gal 2:20. I've been crucified with Christ...and it's no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me. And the life I live, I live by faith in the one who loved me and delivered himself up for me.

Also, plenty of scripture that tells us to ask for wisdom and God will give it to us. James tells us that.

I understand we must have discernment, sanctfication, fruit, etc. But none of that takes away our Salvation that is of Grace alone.

Galatians 3:13
Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a pole."

James 2:10
For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.

 

[rjcruiser]

I understand we must have discernment, sanctfication, fruit, etc. But none of that takes away our Salvation that is of Grace alone.

Absolutely.

Now...this is not to stomp on the ant bed...and I'm not wanting to debate this here either...just pointing out....

There in lies the rub between the Reformers and the Catholics.


So...can you believe in an alternative salvation method...and be saved?

 

[Artfuldodger]

Absolutely.

Now...this is not to stomp on the ant bed...and I'm not wanting to debate this here either...just pointing out....

There in lies the rub between the Reformers and the Catholics.


So...can you believe in an alternative salvation method...and be saved?

Yes you can as long as you believe Jesus died for your sins. Anything you do extra isn't an alternative salvation. You can't add or take away from your slavation. Anything extra a believer does or believes in isn't taking away from their Salvation. You can do all the singing, praying, helping, sanctifiying, Bible reading, commandment keeping, and even things of the opposite nature like gambling, adultry, lying, & cheating if you repent and don't do it all the time. Once saved always saved.
If you are saved by the grace of God, you don't have to interpret every verse the same as every other Christian.

I don't know yet what all that extra doing and not doing will account for but it's not Salvation.

 

[rjcruiser]

Yes you can as long as you believe Jesus died for your sins. Anything you do extra isn't an alternative salvation. You can't add or take away from your slavation. Anything extra a believer does or believes in isn't taking away from their Salvation. You can do all the singing, praying, helping, sanctifiying, Bible reading, commandment keeping, and even things of the opposite nature like gambling, adultry, lying, & cheating if you repent and don't do it all the time. Once saved always saved.
If you are saved by the grace of God, you don't have to interpret every verse the same as every other Christian.

I don't know yet what all that extra doing and not doing will account for but it's not Salvation.

I guess my question would be...what if you believe your works assist in your salvation?

Doesn't that take away from the work that Christ did/does for us? Is that true saving faith then?

Jesus died for my sins....but, I have to keep doing _____ in order to be truly saved. Or, Jesus died for my sins and I did ______ to be saved.

Is that the gospel of grace?

 

[hobbs27]

Or, Jesus died for my sins and I did ______ to be saved.

Is that the gospel of grace?

Sorry to but-in ...I would fill in the blank with surrender.Then answer the question with yes.

 

[Artfuldodger]

Sorry to but-in ...I would fill in the blank with surrender.Then answer the question with yes.

Not butting in, and what did you do to surrender?

 

[Artfuldodger]

I guess my question would be...what if you believe your works assist in your salvation?

Doesn't that take away from the work that Christ did/does for us? Is that true saving faith then?

Jesus died for my sins....but, I have to keep doing _____ in order to be truly saved. Or, Jesus died for my sins and I did ______ to be saved.

Is that the gospel of grace?

They've aready met the requirement by God for salvation, in their belief in Jesus as savior. If they add man's requirement, they aren't taking away from God's.
If a Baptist woman is saved by Grace and marries a Catholic and converts, why would she lose her Salvation?
Doesn't OSAS still apply? Please don't tell me she was never saved. She will just change her beliefs on the extras.
The extras aren't going to remove her Salvation as she can't lose that. The extras are man's requirements. She would just be going above and beyond. It would be like keeping the Sabbath. Why would Sabbath keeping ruin your salvation?
If a Methodist suddenly started keeping the sabbath 10 years after conversion, would that do anything to his salvation?

 

[Artfuldodger]

Absolutely.

Now...this is not to stomp on the ant bed...and I'm not wanting to debate this here either...just pointing out....

There in lies the rub between the Reformers and the Catholics.


So...can you believe in an alternative salvation method...and be saved?

I just went back and read this verse:
2 Corinthians 11:3-4
But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his cunning, so your minds should be corrupted from the SIMPLICITY that is in Christ.4)For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.


So I can see kinda what you are leading up too. If they are adding works to the salvation requirement, they are taking away from the SIMPLICITY that is in Christ. They are preaching another Jesus. An I'm the one who posted this verse on here. I had an accidental relapse into my previous "works required salvation."
Well since I believed in works as being a part of my Salvation at conversion, am I still saved after seeing the err of my ways?

 

[hobbs27]

Not butting in, and what did you do to surrender?

I accepted that Christ was calling and I could answer or face the consequences of what I was deserving of.He made a way, and praise God he made an offer.

 

[rjcruiser]

If they add man's requirement, they aren't taking away from God's.

Impossible to do. Adding man's anything takes away from the "free" part of the gift.

I just went back and read this verse:
2 Corinthians 11:3-4
But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his cunning, so your minds should be corrupted from the SIMPLICITY that is in Christ.4)For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.


So I can see kinda what you are leading up too. If they are adding works to the salvation requirement, they are taking away from the SIMPLICITY that is in Christ. They are preaching another Jesus. An I'm the one who posted this verse on here. I had an accidental relapse into my previous "works required salvation."
Well since I believed in works as being a part of my Salvation at conversion, am I still saved after seeing the err of my ways?

Not only the simplicity...but the awesomeness and completeness of the grace and mercy which God bestowed upon us.


As far as your last question...I don't like to determine date of salvation...what matters is what do you believe right now? Whether or not you were saved 10 years ago or saved today...all that matters is you are saved today.

 

[gordon 2]

I am hoping you are all tired of sin. But not so tired as to ignore it, but to confront it both in ourselves and in the world.

This is what Jesus teaches we should do, in addition to being the beneficiaries of grace and even rid of the guilt of original sin. I like to think of it in terms of striving to achieve the spirit of these commandments... personally and in the world in general. I have a long way to go...

Matthew 5: 20-48.


20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

Concerning Anger

21 “You have heard that it was said to those of ancient times, ‘You shall not murder’; and ‘whoever murders shall be liable to judgment.’ 22 But I say to you that if you are angry with a brother or sister,[a] you will be liable to judgment; and if you insult a brother or sister,[c] you will be liable to the council; and if you say, ‘You fool,’ you will be liable to the - I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -[d] of fire. 23 So when you are offering your gift at the altar, if you remember that your brother or sister[e] has something against you, 24 leave your gift there before the altar and go; first be reconciled to your brother or sister,[f] and then come and offer your gift. 25 Come to terms quickly with your accuser while you are on the way to court[g] with him, or your accuser may hand you over to the judge, and the judge to the guard, and you will be thrown into prison. 26 Truly I tell you, you will never get out until you have paid the last penny.

Concerning Adultery

27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ 28 But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29 If your right eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away; it is better for you to lose one of your members than for your whole body to be thrown into - I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -.[h] 30 And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away; it is better for you to lose one of your members than for your whole body to go into - I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -- I AM A POTTY MOUTH -.

Concerning Divorce

31 “It was also said, ‘Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce.’ 32 But I say to you that anyone who divorces his wife, except on the ground of unchastity, causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

Concerning Oaths

33 “Again, you have heard that it was said to those of ancient times, ‘You shall not swear falsely, but carry out the vows you have made to the Lord.’ 34 But I say to you, Do not swear at all, either by heaven, for it is the throne of God, 35 or by the earth, for it is his footstool, or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King. 36 And do not swear by your head, for you cannot make one hair white or black. 37 Let your word be ‘Yes, Yes’ or ‘No, No’; anything more than this comes from the evil one.[j]

Concerning Retaliation

38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ 39 But I say to you, Do not resist an evildoer. But if anyone strikes you on the right cheek, turn the other also; 40 and if anyone wants to sue you and take your coat, give your cloak as well; 41 and if anyone forces you to go one mile, go also the second mile. 42 Give to everyone who begs from you, and do not refuse anyone who wants to borrow from you.

Love for Enemies

43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 so that you may be children of your Father in heaven; for he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the righteous and on the unrighteous. 46 For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47 And if you greet only your brothers and sisters,[k] what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.


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Tall order... eh?

 

[hobbs27]

Something has to happen on this side of life. Regeneration I believe but something has to take place.It's not just a matter of believing.Folks in he11 are believers.

 

[gordon 2]

Something has to happen on this side of life. Regeneration I believe but something has to take place.It's not just a matter of believing.Folks in he11 are believers.

Yea... and I recently found out that satanist believe also, and that some understand redemption and salvation real well, but they just don't care...to end up miserable for eternity!

Personally my pet quest is justice--as per my Lord.

Ever wonder what the link between sexual assault and crimes agains humanity is? This:

 

[Artfuldodger]

What about "repentance?" How does it fit into our salvation? Some feel repentance is a work, is it?

 

[Ronnie T]

What about "repentance?" How does it fit into our salvation? Some feel repentance is a work, is it?

That's because some people aren't able to place a scriptural perspective on 'works'.

Without repentance, there is no salvation!

Repentance says, "I want Jesus rather than the world".

Repentance is how one walks in the light.
Without repentance, there is only darkness.

Here's scripture that deals with repentance and deeds.
"John 3:19-21, Jesus said to Nicodemus, "And this is judgment, that the light is come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the light; for their deeds were evil. For everyone who does evil hates the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. But he who practices the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God."

 

[Israel]

I keep crashing into something whenever I set out to do anything.
I am beginning to see the safety of my doing nothing.
Grace has allowed me to see who I crash into.
The only one who is doing anything.

 

[StriperAddict]

Amen, thanks brother

I keep crashing into something whenever I set out to do anything.
I am beginning to see the safety of my doing nothing.
Grace has allowed me to see who I crash into.
The only one who is doing anything.

I get that.

But I admit often I'll go to the point of a complete train wreck before that One is seen by me as the all of it.
Nowhere else have we to go. No one has words of life, none take us on and have us emptied of all we are.... yet in that death be filled with Himself -
but seen only with faith.
I'm becoming more content in that, just wish this 'ol clay would stop pushing "those buttons" .

House hunting has been a real button stomper!

 

[Artfuldodger]

I get that.

But I admit often I'll go to the point of a complete train wreck before that One is seen by me as the all of it.
Nowhere else have we to go. No one has words of life, none take us on and have us emptied of all we are.... yet in that death be filled with Himself -
but seen only with faith.
I'm becoming more content in that, just wish this 'ol clay would stop pushing "those buttons" .

House hunting has been a real button stomper!

No luck on finding a house yet?