Problems for Presbyterians

[hobbs27]

Presbyterian Church Leaders Declare Gay Marriage Is Christian



http://www.nbcnews.com/#/news/us-ne...eaders-declare-gay-marriage-christian-n136256


Here is where the problems started in my opinion...

The Rev. Krystin Granberg of the New York Presbytery, where the state recognizes gay marriage, said she receives requests "all the time" from friends and parishioners to preside at their weddings.


1Timothy 2:
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.

14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

 

[centerpin fan]

... and here's the result:

Since the 2011 gay ordination vote, 428 of the denomination's more than 10,000 churches have left for other more conservative denominations or have dissolved, though some theological conservatives have remained within the denomination as they decide how to move forward. The church now has about 1.8 million members.

The conservative Presbyterian Lay Committee decried the votes in Detroit as an "abomination."

 

[centerpin fan]

John Calvin must be rolling over in his grave.

 

[Hooty Hoot]

Presbyterian Church Leaders Declare Gay Marriage Is Christian



http://www.nbcnews.com/#/news/us-ne...eaders-declare-gay-marriage-christian-n136256


Here is where the problems started in my opinion...

The Rev. Krystin Granberg of the New York Presbytery, where the state recognizes gay marriage, said she receives requests "all the time" from friends and parishioners to preside at their weddings.


1Timothy 2:
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.

14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

Yep! Women are suppose to look good and keep their mouth shut. I can't believe we allow them to vote.

 

[centerpin fan]

Yep! Women are suppose to look good and keep their mouth shut. I can't believe we allow them to vote.

The Obama campaign's heavy focus on women's issues for the past year paid off in a big way on Tuesday night, resulting in an 18-point gender gap that largely contributed to the president's reelection.

According to CNN's exit polls, 55 percent of women voted for Obama, while only 44 percent voted for Mitt Romney. Men preferred Romney by a margin of 52 to 45 percent, and women made up about 54 percent of the electorate. In total, the gender gap on Tuesday added up to 18 percent -- a significantly wider margin than the 12-point gender gap in the 2008 election.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/07/gender-gap-2012-election-obama_n_2086004.html

 

[hobbs27]

... and here's the result:


Quote:
Since the 2011 gay ordination vote, 428 of the denomination's more than 10,000 churches have left for other more conservative denominations or have dissolved, though some theological conservatives have remained within the denomination as they decide how to move forward. The church now has about 1.8 million members.

The conservative Presbyterian Lay Committee decried the votes in Detroit as an "abomination."

They are in a fight for the name of the denomination, the split is coming and it will be big..IMO

 

[centerpin fan]

They are in a fight for the name of the denomination, the split is coming and it will be big..IMO

I'm sure many will go to the more conservative PC of America.

 

[Ruger#3]

There is a large Presby congregation meets in the same building as my church. They have already broke off and in the process of joining up with other congregations of like mind.

 

[Artfuldodger]

Presbyterian Church Leaders Declare Gay Marriage Is Christian



http://www.nbcnews.com/#/news/us-ne...eaders-declare-gay-marriage-christian-n136256


Here is where the problems started in my opinion...

The Rev. Krystin Granberg of the New York Presbytery, where the state recognizes gay marriage, said she receives requests "all the time" from friends and parishioners to preside at their weddings.


1Timothy 2:
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.

14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

You believe the problem of gay marriage in the Presbyterian Church started by allowing women preaching roles? Do you see the same progression in denominations that have women preachers?
Protestant denominations that allow women preachers but are mainly conservative in other aspects?
Was allowing women to preach the gateway transgression?

 

[hobbs27]

You believe the problem of gay marriage in the Presbyterian Church started by allowing women preaching roles? Do you see the same progression in denominations that have women preachers?
Protestant denominations that allow women preachers but are mainly conservative in other aspects?
Was allowing women to preach the gateway transgression?

Yes I do believe that.

 

[Artfuldodger]

Yes I do believe that.

You don't believe Paul's letter to Timothy in relation to women preaching had anything to do with the culture of the time and how they would view women preaching and nothing to do with ours?
What about the Bible was written for us but not to us? Why doesn't it apply to women preachers? Do we have other verses to validate women not preaching from others other than Paul to Timothy or the Corinthians?

 

[hobbs27]

You don't believe Paul's letter to Timothy in relation to women preaching had anything to do with the culture of the time and how they would view women preaching and nothing to do with ours?

No

What about the Bible was written for us but not to us? Why doesn't it apply to women preachers?

This is (FOR) us & it does!

Do we have other verses to validate women not preaching from others other than Paul to Timothy or the Corinthians?

Paul reffered to Genesis and the order of creation, notice this in Genesis 2

In Gen 2-3, we see God teaches man, man teaches woman, the devil is out of the picture. That's Gen 2. But in Gen 3, we see the devil teaching woman, woman teaching man, and God is out of the picture. And this is Paul's argument: there is a divinely ordained order to things that, if disturbed, could bring ruin.

 

[Dana Young]

Yes I do believe that.

me too

 

[Dana Young]

It's all the same people don't like what the bible says so they compromise again again again and again untill they are completely at odds with what the bible says

 

[Artfuldodger]

No

Paul reffered to Genesis and the order of creation, notice this in Genesis 2

In Gen 2-3, we see God teaches man, man teaches woman, the devil is out of the picture. That's Gen 2. But in Gen 3, we see the devil teaching woman, woman teaching man, and God is out of the picture. And this is Paul's argument: there is a divinely ordained order to things that, if disturbed, could bring ruin.

That makes it appear to be some type of punishement against woman.
Maybe God knew that in the future women preachers would preach for homosexual marriage and tried to nip it in the bud.

 

[Artfuldodger]

1 Timothy 3:13
A deacon must be faithful to his wife and must manage his children and his household well.

It might have started with the deacons in the Presbyterian Church who weren't good managers. They let the women preach.

 

[Artfuldodger]

1 Timothy 2:10
In like manner women also in decent apparel: adorning themselves with modesty and sobriety, not with plaited hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly attire,

1 Timothy 2:12
I do not let women teach men or have authority over them. Let them listen quietly.

It sounds like Paul is speaking for himself and not God. What he allows and wants as missionaries and new Church leaders. He is setting up New Churches and wants it done a certain way. Paul has said before sometimes he speaks his words and sometimes he speaks as a prophet.

Maybe after the deacons stopped managing, women started wearing braided hair, jewlery, expensive clothing and started teaching men in Sunday School class.
Anyway none of these rules has anything to do with Church services but life in general for that time. Women were to be submissive daily at home, church, or in the work place.

Hardly rules to just prevent women preachers as it says teachers to men. Now given they can teach other women and children in homes etc. These are lifestyle rules and not just for Church to be ignored elsewhere.

 

[WaltL1]

Are you guys sure the women are responsible for this?

The assembly voted 371-238 to allow ministers to celebrate same-sex marriages, and 429-175 in favor of amending the definition of marriage in the constitution.

Are those all women votes?
And -

Since the 2011 gay ordination vote, 428 of the denomination's more than 10,000 churches have left for other more conservative denominations or have dissolved, though some theological conservatives have remained within the denomination as they decide how to move forward.

In 3 YEARS only 428 churches left or dissolved and over 9,572 DIDNT
Those would have to be some seriously influential women.

 

[hobbs27]

Are you guys sure the women are responsible for this?
.

I dont blame women, but the men that are suppose to be the spiritual leaders allowing these things to happen. They let the deception in the door when they allowed so-called women preachers to stand.

 

[WaltL1]

I dont blame women, but the men that are suppose to be the spiritual leaders allowing these things to happen. They let the deception in the door when they allowed so-called women preachers to stand.

Wouldnt you have to know how many of those votes that were cast by the Assembly were women?
And the over 9,572 churches who don't seem to mind?
All led by women?
Im not saying you are wrong but I think the numbers quoted show something very different.